Pneumonia

As I mentioned in another post or two, we recently lost two of our 2 yr old bucks to pneumonia... one was treated with Draxxin, but unfortunately we didn't see him until it was far too late and he was found dead this morning.



Our local deer guy says pneumonia seems to be common around here during the warm spells...but can anyone elaborate on exactly what sparks pneumonia in deer and what we can try to do to help prevent future outbreaks?



A little background info... the bucks have 4 fields to roam in covering probably 10-20 acres...along with a 2 acre or so section of woods. Usually we open up another area which is another 30 acres of woods with a little bit of field around them. IMO, they're not cramped....we've cut back over the past few years and we're down to 14 in that pen.



Here in Ohio we have had a lot of rain recently and unseasonably warm temps for the most part though it did get a bit chilly for a couple days (not quite jacket weather during the day, but lower 50's at night).



Another issue we've run into...we noticed that one of our bucks has a broken antler and the one that died yesterday had broken antlers as well (short stubs, but broken nonetheless)...the only time we run our bucks is when we're separating them off in a short amount of time. We haven't run our bucks at all this year. However, we have had some dogs that have gotten into our pens on numerous occasions...



2 dogs got into our doe pen and caused the death of one of our yearling bucks and another pregnant doe.



3 dogs got into our pen but were spotted and picked up by animal control before they caused any problems (...and being the softy I am...I ended up adopting one of them from the pound...LOL).



2 more have been spotted on numerous occasions and I finally managed to capture them the other day...they are from a horse stable down the road and I have spoke with the owner about it who says he'll keep a better eye on them, but we're sure they'll be back...if they haven't come back already. They didn't appear to be harming or scaring the deer the last couple times I've spotted them...but that doesn't mean it isn't happening...and I believe it most likely is or at least has happened in the past.



What I'm getting at is...if these dogs caused the deer to panic and slam a tree, breaking off their antlers, could the infection/open wounds from that make them more prone to pneumonia or is it more likely the wet, warm weather is the cause of that?



And on an unrelated note...aside from pumping a few rounds into some very cute and friendly dogs...any suggestions on keeping them from returning and entering the pens? We try to fill in any holes dug under the fence as soon as we find them...but wondering if maybe someone's got a cool repellent trick up their sleeves or something. Doesn't hurt to ask right?

Thanks for the info... a lil brutal in honesty, but that's what I needed to hear!



I've been working on the farm now for 4 years...in the 4 years I've been there, this year has been extremely crazy with dogs. We haven't noticed a single dog in the pens from the date I started until a couple months ago...then suddenly every other week we had dogs in one pen, or dogs in another, etc. The worst part is that most of the time, they've been completely different dogs.



The first instance was 2 huskies in our doe pen picked up by animal control...they ran the deer hard and ended up causing the two to die. Filed a report with animal control and contacted the owner who apologized and said to let her know what they were worth and she'd take care of it. We told her $1500...which you all are aware is pretty cheap when you're talking a pregnant doe and a 2 year old buck. Our cheapest bucks last year went for no less than $1500. And of course, this woman refuses to answer our calls, return our messages, or accept our letters...hoping to get approval to have our attorney contact her and hope she gets scared and pays up.



2nd set of dogs...as I mentioned, never made it in. Our farm backs up to an industrial park and they were found running around the businesses in the park. We're thinking they were dumped off by their own in the back of the park. My dog (one of the 3 found that day) is extremely nervous around larger men...and acts like she was abused...so I'm leaning toward and abusive owner who ditched em. Thankfully we had them picked up before they got in since you all know how dogs are when they're in a "pack"...nice thing too is that of the 3, I took one home, one of the guys in the industrial park took another one...and the last one got adopted out. So the owner never picked the group up...which means, zero chance of them returning in the future.



Last set of dogs...one day they're in one pen, one day they're in another, etc, etc. Finally captured them...we called the owner and let them go home, but now that it looks like they've caused the death of two of our bucks, they won't be going home again. I'm an animal lover... it kills me to kill even nuisance animals like raccoons, groundhogs under our barns, etc. I do it...but it's hard to deal with some days. If a dog were aggressive toward me...or was attacking a deer and wouldn't come toward me, I could shoot it without feeling too much guilt. But when it comes up to me...it looks like a cute retriever mix...and it as a name tag saying Daisy that shows it's someone's beloved pet (even though they can't keep the dang thing chained up)...that would be hard for me.



I do know SOMETHING has to be done...we can't continue letting them in there or they're going to kill off tens of thousands of dollars worth of deer. What we're thinking is if we can't bring ourselves to put them down...we'll remove their collars and drop them off at another animal shelter where they won't be able to be returned to their owner and will still be able to go to a good home. If we take them to our county shelter...the owner will just check in and pick them up...and if we leave the tags on, they'll just call the owner...and since they're registered, no fines. It'd all be a civil deal if we wanted to go after them for it...just like this other woman who's responsible for our two dead deer.



ddwhitetails,

I'm not real sure it wasn't antler infection...I'm still learning a lot from a medical standpoint. I called up a fellow keeper nearby who came out and said it was pneumonia...the one was just sitting there with drool hanging out of his mouth. But we both agreed the dogs or something ran them and caused them to damage their antlers...I guess its entirely possible it could have been antler infection as opposed to pneumonia...especially if the symptoms are similar?



I will definitely look into the predator fence as well...we fill in the holes as soon as we find them, but all it takes is a persistent dog to dig out a new one and then it's right back in.



Edit: D'oh! I just remembered we have a bunch of snares sitting in the barn... instead of filling in their holes, I will set snares in there. I feel a lot less guilty if I come across the animal already dead from entering a place it wasn't supposed to enter

Can someone explain to me these predator fences you're referring to? I tried looking them up and came up with two different things...Scott, I see on your site, you guys deal with these kinds of things...feel free to PM me with info about your particular products/methods.



1.) Live electrical wire like what's mentioned above... probably not practical as our property isn't exactly small.



2.) A type of fence, designed for goats I think...large mesh at the top and gets smaller toward the ground to keep predators from crawling through.



We currently have tall chain link fences that surround the outer perimeter...a teacup chihuahua might fit through the links, but that's it. These animals are digging underneath our fences. The holes get filled in as soon as they're discovered, usually with either rocks or an entire backhoe load of dirt pushed up against the fence...but of course, all it takes is a dog digging a new hole and filling in all the other holes is a moot point. Today I went around every fence line surrounding our buck pen and I only found one hole where it was apparent the dogs were getting in. I set up a snare though so if they come back through that hole, they won't be breathing much longer. It sucks...but I feel much less guilty not actually having to watch the animal die so I can deal with killing them via that method.

Wow, I like that idea a lot! Thanks for the info!



I'll also check into the electric fence, but I think the boss will nix that one... too many people bring their kids out to check out the deer from outside the park and they may not appreciate their kids getting zapped for touching that interesting looking wire. lol



Dennis,

What kind of automatic waterers are you going to be running? We've got two of these in our pens and they are great (only issue is the heater doesn't prevent freezes below about 25-30*F and we have to either turn them off or run external heaters during the winter months)...they may be discontinued though because when I ordered one from these guys, they called me trying to sell me two at a discounted rate.



http://www.lightlivestockequipment.com/AutomaticWaterers.asp



We also used a Brower Performance One box stall drinker... and quite honestly, it didn't work worth a crap. Heater was great, but one day the level would be perfect and the next day the valve had readjusted and was overflowing the drinker all over the place....and the next day the valve would make the level too low causing the water to freeze during the winter, etc.



I went through 2 valves before finally giving up, ripping the thing out after less than a year and picking up another one of the Behlen waterers.



Just my $.02 for ya.