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Protocall when you know a dart doesn't fire?

G

gcw matt

Joined Apr 2009
381 Posts | 0+
Ewing, Illinois
Last night we went to move 2 does. Mixed 6:1 100 strength rompum to telezol. Shot the doe with 2cc. Hit the first doe good right were we wanted it, but it bounced straight back. I could see the fluid coming out the dart as it fell to the ground. It wasn't spraying like I have seen before. Just a slow easy straight line like you were pushing it out of a syringe nice and easy. Anyway Im not worried about the dart it was a freak thing, but what I want to know is what do you do when you know it is a bad hit and the deer didn't get the entire dose?



I have heard let them be for 15 to 20 minutes and see what happens. This is what I did last night. Shot the second doe and she was down within 5 minutes. Took our time and moved her to the other pen this took 20 -30 min. Went back to check on the first doe. She was moving slow but still on her feet and obvious she wasn't going to go down. This is were I probably screwed up. I got cheap and didn't want to waste the other 2cc of mix because I still had to move a buck so, I hit her with 2cc of staight rompum. I know not a good idea, but I'm cheap and stupid sometimes. Anyways 30 min later she is still on her feet and not going down. I knew things were not looking good. Hit her with 1 cc of mix and 30 min later she is standing and snoring but wont lay down. Wait another 20 min. Finaly we just got her between us and had a rodeo getting her in the back of the Ranger. I held her feet and layed on top of her until we could get her into the trailer. Reversed her with 3 cc and sent her to her new home. It was cold and raining so we left her in the trailer over night and let her out this morning. All looks well. This was in total about a 3 hour ordeal.



So, I just explained how things can go wrong, but turn out OK for now.



What is your protocall for bad hits or deer that wont go down?
 
Personally Matt, I would wait 15 to 20 minutes in order to measure the affect of what did get ''in''. But then, instead of trying to get by cheap as you did(and most all of us have done that so don't feel like the Lone Ranger) give the deer the 'mix'. Rompum by itself sucks. If she was showing affects at all, and you intended to use 2cc on her, I probly would have waited the 20 minutes and then hit her with a 1 1/2cc dart, but it wouldn't have hurt to hit her with the intended 2cc dart again.(See...I'm still trying to get by cheap by suggesting the 1 1/2cc as opposed to the 2cc:)). One thing I always have to keep reminding myself: You want the ''just the right amount dose'', but it is better in my opinion to make sure it is plenty strong enough instead risking it not being strong enough - better on the animal...and better on you! Best of luck!
 
I use the same mix as you guys but have always put them down with 1cc. Sometimes I mix 5cc 100mg strength xylazine to one 5 ml bottle telezol. Guess I have wimpy deer. They are all out in five minutes or less.
 
Well when I took the safe capture course years ago we were taught that after 3o mins waiting after the hit and you approched the deer ? If the deer twitched and ear that you would half dose the orignal dose. If the animal raised it`s head you would redose the orignal dose . There was no telazol mix back then. I also worked with a vet that when he reversed he would reverse IV but with half the dose used IM . Any thought Scott ? That was the first i`ve seen that and haven`t seen it again. if not shaved it`s too hard for me to find the vein. LOL Are these methods the best ? Who knows . All deer are different and will respond to drugs differently .
 
Mitch P said:
Well when I took the safe capture course years ago we were taught that after 3o mins waiting after the hit and you approched the deer ? If the deer twitched and ear that you would half dose the orignal dose. If the animal raised it`s head you would redose the orignal dose . There was no telazol mix back then. I also worked with a vet that when he reversed he would reverse IV but with half the dose used IM . Any thought Scott ? That was the first i`ve seen that and haven`t seen it again. if not shaved it`s too hard for me to find the vein. LOL Are these methods the best ? Who knows . All deer are different and will respond to drugs differently .
Click to expand...



Hey Mitch - For Scott's opinion on this go to the ''Tolazine'' thread and read post #6. My opinion on some of those ''professionally'' taught courses, no matter the subject, is that they aren't always as in the ''know'' as much as somebody else not giving the course that probably has a ton more hands on experience doing whatever it is the ''other'' is trying to teach. I'm a free range whitetail outfitter and have been for 23 years. On more than one occassion I have had these video makers in camp. Twice that I can think of I had guys in camp to make a video on the ''how to'' kill a turkey(one with bow and the other with bow or gun) that HAD NEVER killed a turkey in their life before, by any means, gun or bow, but was making a video and going to show you and I how to do it. And of course the motivation is ''money''.

I attended a ''how to'' course on the subject of AI-ing whitetail deer, and it was put on by 'Safe Capture', and it was an ABSOLUTE total waste of my time and an ABSOLUTE total waste of my money. This is my opinion, but its my opinion that is derived from me being there and not here-say!

My whole point is this: We are blessed to have such a forum here available to us where we can post questions concerning our deer and get those questions answered by ''hands on experience''. You CAN NOT beat the hands on experience and what has been PROVEN to work through this experience. And yes of course, one has to learn who to listen to on here and who to wait for corroberation on, but this forum is AWESOME!!
 
Mark what we have is an awesome place that you USED to be able to come on here and get different opinions on the same question.That was untill some come on here bashing others for over medicating or not doing something else right.Well there is different ways and different meds that will fix a same sickness or injury. Period. 3 different farmers could have saved a deer from a certin sickness and the deer was fine..Does that make one of them wrong...Not. Now you get 1 or mabey 2 replies and someone new is stuck at that reply!!! Mabey we can get it back where it was at one time!!!!
 
Moved Rosa yesterday, put her into her box with just an easy shove. Carried box to horse trailer, and moved into her new farm/pen. No drugs, no stress. She did great- Mark you were right again. She would probably ride in the back of a van with me if she could.



Hugs out to all. Thank you dear farmers for all your great support to me over the past 18 months. I am going over to the new farm now to spend the day with her. She did have a loose stool, and I need to watch over her a bit this week.
 
I have had good luck with a 1cc dart with a 5cc to one bottle Telazol mix. When I started getting dart's with at least a 3/4 inch or 1 inch tri port. Where I have had problem's is with the 1/2 inch dart I just dont think it is getting through all of the hair and hide to get the drug in the animal with the winter coat on. The only problem I had this year with a deer not going down was with a dart that just exploded for some reason when it hit, I dont think that she got any of the drug. I waited untill I was done working with the rest of the animal's around 45 min and then darted her another time.
 
I had at least six darts explode on me this year all 2cc darts. I think it is cause the darts have a smaller needle than they used to.
 
Does anyone else ever use straight xylazine to knockout their deer. We have used just straight xylazine on probably 200+ deer in the last 10 years and has worked great. We have used to treat wounds, medicate, saw antlers and Ai'ing. The only time we use the mix with Telazol is when the bucks are in full rut. We have one buck that is 10 years old and all it takes is 3/4 of a cc of straight xylazine to knock him out like a light. I should say I did have two deer that it didn't work very well on over the 10 year period. I usually give anywhere from 1 to 3cc depending on how tame they are. I was just wondering if anyone else has had good luck using it straight. I know a lot of people that say it doesn't work for them at all straight. A friend of mine couldn't believe it worked straight on our deer till he came over and seen it for himself. He said they all were out as good as when he uses the mixture.
 
First off you need to get to know your deer. I use it straight as much as I can but I do have a few that won't go out with out it. I no others also that have no problems with straight xylazine also. If you don't know your deer or have not been around a deer farm much I would recomend mixing up a coctail it is safer for you and the deer.
 
Mitch,

My experience is to preferentially use xylazine/telazol. I have used straight xylazine at times, some with great success other times with issues. Regardless of what mix you prefer, a deer that has been "light" dosed or refuses to go down will most likely not go down with additional xylazine alone unless it is in an excessive dosage. I do occasionally use Ketamine to top off a light dosed animal or extend the sedation if surgery is long or treatment too slow. Having said that, unless I have to handle the animal that is light dosed asap, I elect to wait 2 or more hours before I consider a re-dose. many tomes the animal finally goes down and out when left alone and just watched. If you disagree with my experiences I don't care so don't write a response telling me what you think I did/do wrong.
 
Jeff, not sure how they exploded they were full. When they hit they just made a loud pop. Never really had that problem before with the 2cc darts. Some of the older plastic darts would blow up but since they switched to the clear ones have had no problems with them either until they switched the needle size.
 
Sometimes the darts explode if you use a needle 1" or longer and hit a bone. Long needles make deeper penetration. I never use needles longer than 3/4"
 
Scott Heinrich said:
Sometimes the darts explode if you use a needle 1" or longer and hit a bone. Long needles make deeper penetration. I never use needles longer than 3/4"
Click to expand...



Scott there is no denying you have a ton of darting experience and I respect your knowledge on the subject. But you have the good fortune of darting deer in the southern states. A 300 LB buck in late fall or winter up in the northern states barely gets into the muscle with a 3/4" needle. That said hitting a bone is not cool and should be avoided at all costs.
 
I had 2 blow out the side's of the dart's this year. One was 1/2in and the other3/4in. Deer got a little of the cocktail but never went down.These blew the plastic apart on the side's of the dart!!
 
Its great to here from Scott on this I was waiting for your post before I responded. If you have been on here for more than 4 years you know scott knows what is going on. Thank you for you input. I was using a 3/4" tr-port needle. After saying this my deerare fatter and have longer hair than they have had in the last three years. I was thinking along the lines of Roger that my second and third dart might have not got into the muscle. Waiting 2 or more hours isn't always practical but I can see where it would be better. Wouldn't that basically give most all the meds time to get out of the system? What do you use if you need the animal out now?
 

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