TDA Early results!! Holy &@$!!!

What was the average sale for the auction?? What I am looking for is the average decent doe.

This is just one of the reasons why I breed with TX genetics.... frame, spread, and stacked rows of long... long tines aren't a bad reason either! Plus not too many northerners are breeding with Tx bucks... and I like that! We can't all go down the same exact path and expect to see growth in our industry.

Richard-

Isn't that just showing the top end breeder market? Is that just a smoke screen covering up that the shooter market and average does are down. I attend a local exotic sale, and awhile back when the Ratite market was going very good, and talk of lower prices ahead. a gal from the Ratite association talked before the sale and said don't worry about the lower prices there is a market after the breeder market. Well it was at the next sale that the prices fell to the bottom. I am not trying to scare anyone, And I know we do have an end product. but are we kidding ourselves with the breeder market. There just seems to be too big of a gap between the top breeders and the the rest, and getting wider. Do we really need the top names in our shooter bucks? It seems everyone thinks they can not grow anything without a top name. Before long the only ones that will be in the game will be the breeders and they will have to supply the shooters, all the small guys will be broke.

I don't post much on here, so I probbly said enough for the rest of the year, and I hope my words came across the way I wanted

Hab your right there are some big breeder putting some big money out there between themselves but there no doubt that the price on shooters buck are down. All you got to do is ask the hunting ranches 40 to 50% down from last year . It is common horse sense you lose your hunters and the shooter bucks go to **** , the sales auction will go right with the shooter market. But there will be people will raise deer anyway because they love it.Let hope that it get better before it get worse. If the government raises taxes like they want to, two 53% like Canada will I see it getting worse. It is hitting guys like my self hard right now give it time and it will get to the big boys I really hope not because I love to raise deer.And there is people has put everything into this business that they have.

The only comment I will make on this whole topic is this.

A few days ago I got a call from the company I am furloughed from and they asked me if I were to get a recall notice if I would come back or take a by-pass on the recall this time?

My point is the company I am furloughed from hauls anything, anywhere. Besides the government contracts they move tons of "normal" freight all over the world. They are seeing a shortage of uplift coming in the months ahead. Meaning they see the turn coming soon and want to be prepared for it. This is a good sign that the economy is about to turn and that products are going to be moving again.

I think everyone needs to hang tight and not panic.

Deepwoods said:

Hab your right there are some big breeder putting some big money out there between themselves but there no doubt that the price on shooters buck are down. All you got to do is ask the hunting ranches 40 to 50% down from last year . It is common horse sense you lose your hunters and the shooter bucks go to **** , the sales auction will go right with the shooter market. But there will be people will raise deer anyway because they love it.Let hope that it get better before it get worse. If the government raises taxes like they want to, two 53% like Canada will I see it getting worse. It is hitting guys like my self hard right now give it time and it will get to the big boys I really hope not because I love to raise deer.And there is people has put everything into this business that they have.

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In my openion the shooter market has not went to s---. I will explain. Deer breeders over the last five to seven years have done a great job advertizing, marketing and selling their products (bred does, fawns, semen , breeder bucks) Millions of dollars are turned over every year at sales threw advertizing. Here is the problem. How much time effort and money has went into advertizing the end product shooters. There are thousands of breeders compared to hundreds of shooting ranchs. Yet we have left the hunting ranchs shoulder all the burden of advertizing our shooters. In reality the hunting market is increasing 10% every year. But the available shooters is increasing 20% or maor a year.

If you want to think about something scarry. The shooter bucks that are on the market now were born on an average of four years ago. Think how many buck fawns were born this year as compared to four years ago.

If you want to turn this problem around. Lets take some of those breeder advertizing dollars and put them to advertize hunting behind high fence.

It does not matter what kind of deer you are raising the best to the least. 100% of the deer that do not die in your pens are SHOT!

richie0033 said:

Well I think that there is nothing to worry about in the deer industry. It is very strong. Just to mention a few Woodard whitetails choice doe fawn brought 110,000.00,another choice doe brought 155,000.00, and multiple deer brought over 40,000.00. Oh yeah bambi 727 sold for 460,000.00. Holy $&@! If there were any worries about this industry getting weak I think that this sale should make you feel better. Congrats to all

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I am not sure you can fairly compair Texas sales with the rest of the country. God has blessed many Texans with old money, oil money with deep pockets

People have been preaching dooms day since...Well forever I guess...

I know people were knocking on my door last year for deer...As long as I am eating a little better than they are(my deer)...I'll hang in there...

I feel the bubble may have burst on people wanting to pay 10,000 for a straw splitting it 3/4 ways...then wanting to make 10,000 on each fawn off the bat... everybody realized they could do the same...But if you(we) put out a consistent.. nice.. honest.. healthy product customers will come and then come back...We just need to strive for high levels of personal excellence...Not sitting back waiting to roll in the dough.

I know if I was buying shooters I would not go to sit in a room and buy one from OK,one from MI, one from WI...ECT...



Even if not a shooter...It is hard to buy a breeder buck or doe from far away... death is always knocking at the door step when you go to far from home to get a deer. I know I don't bid as much on far away one's...

Just my thoughts...

Good point Billy Jo !!!

I have a motto: expect the best and prepare for the worst. We as deer raisers seem to lump the breeding industry to the shooting industry as one and they are. But with two different functions. The breeders produces the shooting ranchs deliver our product. Many breeders are deceaved in believing that because breeding sales are still strong that the shooting market is strong also. The shooting market is strong and is geting stronger evey year. How ever the breeding market is stronger and producing more shooters than the hunting market can deliver. How ever the breeding market is not like a factory you can just shut down. We are raising animals the eat, grow and die. We just can't hit the pause button and resume play six to twelve months later. The problem we have now started four years ago when thousands of buck fawns were borm. Think what will happen when the buck fawns that were born this year hit the market.

We can talk about or blame the ecomony, deer auctions, hunting ranches not paying enough or we can say every thing is great because the breeding market is strong. But in reality if we do not start advertizing the hunting end. Some breeders will be turning those ten thousand dollar does into hamberger.

Sorry if I seem negitive. But the objective was to be realistic. We have a problem. Lets solve it before it destroys our industry

Wisdom said:

I am not sure you can fairly compair Texas sales with the rest of the country. God has blessed many Texans with old money, oil money with deep pockets

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Are you trying to get a whole bunch of pissed off Texans beating down your door???? Trust me, there are plenty of "little guys" here that are not "old money" that are working just as hard as anyone else in the country to see a pay-off, trying to earn their blessings. And, as this sale just showed, the market is strong and that gives everyone, even the little guys, a chance to hit a home run. There is a lot of money everywhere, so don't get caught up in a stereotype - we don't all have oil rigs in our back yards and drive cadilac's with horns on the hood.....



It was a great weekend, and it was very exciting to be in the room and watch a deer sell for $460k - talk about energy filling a room! It motivated us, and I am sure others, because it gave us hope that we can grow a big deer and reap a big payoff. Maybe we can't go out and buy that type of deer, but we can work hard and hope to grow one, and there are people out there that can and will buy it.

Robbie well put i'm just a "little guy" here in Mo. a self employed construction worker who for 20 + years have been blessed with plenty of work till now. And now days i'm a full time deer farmer waiting on the phone to ring with work. You are absoloutly right there are people all over with deep pockets and lots of old money.But that does'nt help you or i unless you have a product they want to buy.So we need to focus on that and look for the positives in this industry we have become spoiled in life and in this industry when we think about what "good money" is for an animal we can't sell every deer for 460,000 wish we all could BUT we can't. I still think if i can sell deer for $2000-$4000 and get lucky and sell an occasinal $7500-$20,000 wich in my short 3 short years in this business i have had the fortune of doing that is "GOOD MONEY" like to know were you can make that in a year on you'r initial investment. Most things that turn that kinda money would get you sent to jail. So Robbie is right if i'm out here working as hard as i can to hit a "HOMERUN" AND I BIELEVE WE ALL CAN. I for one am going to stay FOCUSED on my plan keep my head down nose to the grind stone and keep telling everyone I meet HOW GREAT THIS BUSINESS IS AND HOW LUCKY I'AM to be a PART of it just my 2cents GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!

How easy is it to grow a 200" deer nowadays? I expect 80-90% of my 2 and 3 year old bucks to do so whether typical framed or non typicals. 13 years ago when I started both a breeding and a shooting preserve, I had 1 and he was 6 years old. Most of my two year olds and 5 out of my 6 3 year olds are over 200. Not bragging just hang in there for the point. The point is that breeders expect to get $10K for a 200" buck. I shoot a 200-210 for $12,500. I have a hard time selling hunts at shows because the hunting market is down. I know a lot of western outfitters, African outfitters, and booking agents that have had a horrible year. They are discounting hunts just to survive. I cannot make any money at $2500 "profit" (we have quite a bit of overhead) nor can I discount the hunt, why would I stay in business- and what happens when that shooter that I bought dies in my preserve? I have 1,000 acres. It is easier for the average, because I am an average breeder, to grow a 200" deer. Now his profit keeps going up and mine stays the same. The shooter market should be 50% of what the preserves can get for the hunt. Remember that we have to go out and get these people and then keep them coming back. It is a service oriented business for sure and one that, unlike the breeder market, requires honesty and integrity. If you don't have that, people won't come back- no matter how big the deer are. Keep in mind that if the Obama campaign and the other low life's in Washington vote away our gun rights- this forum is useless. Fight for that right to defend your country from tyranny both foreign and domestic. Discount those shooters and be happy that you are getting something for them.

What would those TX deer have brought at the TDA if the borders were open to the rest of the country? Maybe it's not a question of Texas money, but more that they are practically in another country when it comes to moving deer.

I heard a rumor at the Indiana sale that Texas deer were being sold to Mexico ranches anyone know if this is true?

WOW. Why not? Texas is almost the only state touching Mexico, so they have a monopoly on that market since our deer would not be allowed to travel through the state.

Yes it is true that there were several Mexico buyers at the TDA Auction

Ok. I'm like Wooden. I got an opinion. I remember going to McQuaigs farm about 13 years ago. David was talking about the deer as his retirement project. He told me that he was selling every buck fawn he wanted to for $1500.00. I told Tina on the way home that if I could sell every buck fawn for $1500.00, I would sell every one of them. I was so excited to think that I could actually make money doing this. Since I have been in this business, it seems everyone is always talking about how we are going to flop. It always just keeps going up. I guess you guys just dont get it. It aint about the DAMN money. People love deer. They love everything about deer. They dream about deer. They talk about deer all year round. They look at pictures of deer and read stories about deer, while they are sitting on the pot for gosh sakes. They hunt for deer antlers in the woods. They have deer antler knives, lamps, cabinet knobs, chandeliers, bed covers with deer on them, wine holders, ear rings, belt buckles, signs and paintings and every other conceivable thing known to man. Have you ever seen a picture of an Emu hanging in a house? Have you ever seen anyone dreaming about Emu's while they are on the pot. Have you ever seen anyone with a bunch of Emu's mounted and hanging on the wall. Its a business that is driven by passion. If you are passionate about the deer business, you will always make it. If you aren't passionate about the deer business, you probably need to find another line of work. You see when you talk about your own industry is going to tank, how many deer do you think people want to buy from you. Everyone just always needs to be positive. In reality, we all aren't going to get rich. Its not a scheme. So, its not a get rich quick scheme. If I can sell deer and guide hunts for a living, well, what more could I ask for. Living in the middle of the woods, with turkeys, squirrels, rabbits and all kinds of wildlife in the yard, a full belly and a ton of good friends. It just don't get no better. Good luck to all and never, and I mean never let anyone pee on your dreams!!!!!!!!!! After all, its your dream not theirs.

Amen!!!!!!!