Top Doe's

chris patton said:

i really shoudn't be on here responding to who i think the best does are.

I have been burned sometimes for my comments. There is to many does to say that they are the best producers. This is just my opinion and only my opinion.

Me, my self, believe that mark sipes doe yb40 and her 4 quad daughters are the best producing does in the industry. It don't really matter what semen or live breeding you put in these does, they just make it happen. Please, this is just my opinoion. I forgot about bessie, who is now on my farm live breed back to xwl tombstone.

Click to expand...

are your phones working ??? U know a lot of us have 6-9 jobs and this (late time ) is the onely time to take care of this deer stuff , sorry,

Black one is one of the best producing does in the state of Texas. By far! She is producing through her sons and grandsons! Her most notable grand son is 4M MOAB who scores 458"@3, another great grandson of hers is 4M gladiators hammer 357"@4(we're lucky enough to be breeding with his twin brother this year). So we should be able to see first hand what the black one line produces!

I am one of these DOE FANATICS!! I don't even seriously consider breeding a sire until I know he is out of a doe that makes my standards. We all have different standards to which a doe "MAKES THE LIST".



Some things I consider are:



Has she had multiple sons that are "Breeder Industry Quality" out of several different sires?



Does she have a "Breeder Industry Quality" Womb Brother or Full Brother?



How has her sister and mother produced based on the standards mentioned above?



BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY AS OF RECENT!!! Even if she is consistent....Is she throwing the "LOOK" that our herd/industry is wanting?



We are even more picky when choosing a buck to breed...It's no longer just good enough to breed a buck that throws good sons but he has to throw just as strong does that throw great sons, also.

All that said.... there are just a few does L&W is focusing on line-breeding into our herd due to their merit.



But I will also mention some does that are great does in merit, regardless of whether they fit our line or not, yet.



South



86C - Gladiator & Secret Weapon's Mother...this will be easy due to all the Gladiator sons out there who are also out of Great Does with merit



Black 1- Ben Mooring has done a great job already informing everyone of what she is capable of... MOAB & G. Hammer have been our breeding plan the last two years and we believe they will remain



B 510- Gonzalez Whitetail's Max Dream, Kid Dynamite, Dreambo



#172 – Top Gun (232@2, 298@3, 355@5) and Top Bro 268@3 mother



#339/June - Cash Call 235@2 (240” Typical Last 2 years 24” Wide since 2), Top Cash 288@2, 290@3, 300+@4 (26”+ Wide), Johnny Cash 227”@3 6x6 Typical….Mother to all these bucks. June/339 is out of Top Gun 355@5 mother’s wombsister (#173)



#639/Top **** – Top Gun 355@5 Fullsister, Top Bro 268@3 Wombsister, Top Secret 240+@2 mother, Twin Rolex Yearlings 160+ Mother



Green 68 – Lane Laning’s Power Doe That has been behind Thor, Zeus, and Maxbo Prickly



Not sure of her number but Maxbo 727 & Overdrive’s Mother



Holly has merit having throw Yardstick & Primetime



The only one that is coming to mind from Robert William’s herd would be Monarch I & II and Budro’s Mother



North



Super Doe & Daughters- Nuff Said!!!



B37- Hardcore, Soldicore, Maximus DT & CR



O2- Danger, Ranger, Stranger



R16-She has a pile of sons and couple daughters with track record



Torch’s Wombsister has an impressive Maxbo 2yr old and a nice Hardcore Yearling



Bonnie-At Chris Miller’s Farm



Mark Sipes Quad Maxbo XL Does that have thrown Freebird, Cowboy, Frequent Flyer, ETC



Spyder’s Grandmother is also tied into Rocky Roller and I believe a few other sons



There were 3 strong does back in the day at Griffith Brothers that were like Lexus’s Mom, Buckster’s Mom, Ultra Max Mom, Geronimax Mom

Punch Bowl’s Mom ol’ Steady 111 Doe



*I know I’ve probably missed a bunch that deserve notice but these are off the top of my head. My detailed notes are at the ranch

RLA, If you breed for what the market likes...................You will be in trouble fast!

Breed for PRODUCTION and STRONG PROVEN SIRES and DAMS................I think you will find it's ALOT easier to cash those checks!!

That will be a smart move. Like it or not there are some great bucks on paper that just are not as big as the paper says they should be and then there are some no name crosses that are awesome looking. Think stocker bucks and dont chase the hype... That will pay the feed bill with some left over to take the wife to dinner!!!

Thanks for all the kind words about 4M Black 1 Texas Super Doe!



1. 4M Black 1 Texas Super Doe

2. Blue 510

3. 86c

4. Holly

5. Green 68

6. Beauty

7. Emmy

8. Superdoe

9. Blue 37

10. TR yellow 123

11. R16



All Nuclear Power Plants............. north and south in random order!



Ben

I have to mention our purple 35, she is 5 yrs old and has had 4 buck fawns, collectivly the 4 bucks have scored over 1,300 inches of horn at 2 yrs old. Her sons include Redline, Redbull, Aftershock and Redbulls womb brother. I am also a big fan of red 16 and Beauty. Darren

I have never considered myself a genetics guru, but here in TX I have noticed that many of the best producers, (of both bucks and income) have a select group of does that keep showing up in their pedigrees. I do wish I had more knowledge in the northern lines, but simply don't have the time to put into the research. So, here are a few of the TX does that I THINK deserve mention. (in no particular order)



86C

Blue 510

Blk 1

Holly

A225

W13



Of these ***** "to my knowledge" only Holly has produced 2 bucks over 350"



Also think I have to mention that does out of the Dreambuck and 727 lines have consistently put huge bucks on the ground and cash in the bank!



Really enjoying the thread. I've already learned of a doe or two that I need to do a little more looking into!

dryc66 said:

I have never considered myself a genetics guru, but here in TX I have noticed that many of the best producers, (of both bucks and income) have a select group of does that keep showing up in their pedigrees. I do wish I had more knowledge in the northern lines, but simply don't have the time to put into the research. So, here are a few of the TX does that I THINK deserve mention. (in no particular order)



86C

Blue 510

Blk 1

Holly

A225

W13



Of these ***** "to my knowledge" only Holly has produced 2 bucks over 350"



Also think I have to mention that does out of the Dreambuck and 727 lines have consistently put huge bucks on the ground and cash in the bank!



Really enjoying the thread. I've already learned of a doe or two that I need to do a little more looking into!

Click to expand...

Good to see you Mr. R!

Great thread!



I find the hardest thing to get on a power doe is to get her in the anchor position of the pedigree. Getting a direct daughter or grand daughter of one of these does is difficult and expensive but very worth it. This has been my overriding goal for the last three years and the fruits are significant.



My list



Black 1-incredible bucks and does

Green 68 incredible does

B 37 incredible bucks

02 incredible bucks

510 incredible bucks and does

Holly incredible bucks

White 22 incredible bucks

Purple 66 incredible bucks

OK Ive never posted on here but thanks to you Ben, yall have my interest. Daniel I fully agree with you on Texas superdoes. At High Roller Whitetails we have several criteria when labeling a doe a "super doe". Number 1 is marketability, Number 2 is predictability, Number 3 is consistency, and last and most important that is all 3 of these in one word is PEDIGREE. In the state of Texas there are less than 20 GREAT does in my opinion. A "super" doe in my opinion is a doe that has multiple big, marketable sons. The problem with that is it takes so many years for a doe to reach that status. Many does with the potential to be labeled a "super" doe never reach an age to where that can happen. "Great" does on the other hand are does that are "mothers of" or "sisters of" truly marketable bucks. This is a great thread.

High Roller, I agree with you 100%. Here is a list of some Texas super does



1. Holly - Dam to Yardstick and primetime and the only doe in the State of Texas with two bucks over 350.



2. W13- Dam to Maxbo 727 and Overdrive .

* 727 daughters are consistent and proven and have toped many of Texas sales.

3. A225 - Dam to Kid Rock , Bocephus and Lone Hollow Texas Ranger

4. Blue 510 - Dam to Max Dream , Kid Dynamite and Dreambo

5. 86C - Dam to Gladiator and Secret Weapon

6.Black 1- Dam to Hammer Time , Hammmer , Sledge Hammer

I don't consider myself to be an expert by any means but, I can say that I have seen my fair share of all the animals on everyone's list over the past 8 years that I have been in the business and all their offspring on a fairly consistent basis every year. There is no question in my mind that all these does being mentioned are super does. That being said these are the does that I feel beyond a shadow of a doubt have proven themselves over and over again. Not saying that there aren't other ones out there at all but stuff out of these does should make you a pay check. If it doesn't we better all take a second look at what we are doing. I'm not going to list what each has produced, super does speak for themselves. No particular order here.



Texas Super Does

Holly

Black 1

A225

Blue 510

W-13

86C



North Super Does

Blue 37

Super-doe

O-2

R-16

Beauty

Black 1 - grand dam to 4M Gladiator's Hammer 367" @ 4 (produced 207" yearling), grand dam to 4M Maxbo's Hammer 263" @ 2, grand dam to 4M Moab 458" @ 3 , her bucks are big and her daughters produce, did I mention she throws wide son's............30+ inside

Wow...this is a subject that could be elaborated on for hours. The bottom line is that we are all proud of our own deer, ESPECIALLY our top does. With the bar continuoulsy behing raised higher and higher, year after year, the definition of a true "super doe" has definitely changed. Lets face it, like alot of you, we have does on our farm who have year after year produced 3 year olds nearing if not surpassing the 300" mark that are being released into the pasture. Most of us never thought we'd see the day when 300" 3 year olds would be labeled as shooters and their mothers overlooked and not considered a "super doe" themselves. Although they are producing "super" offspring, they are not in the elite class that are considered "super does". IT without a doubt requires more than just the ability to throw a big son. There are TONS of big bucks out there but we all know it takes more than a big score to make it in today's market. I think James said it very well in post. It takes more than just the ability to produce big sons or having a flashy pedigree...IT TAKES BOTH. Also, it takes real scores. There is nothing that turns myself and alot of others I have spoken with off of a particular deer than an exxaggerated score. Quite frankly i find it insulting when someone posts a score and doesn't think I have enough sense to tell that the buck doesn't score anywhere near what is claimed. Let's face it, whitetail breeding is a competition to some degree and we all want "our' stuff to be the best and hottest in the industry. All of that being said I agree with many of the above mentioned female lines. I would also like to stress that for those of you who know me, you know I am not a salesman, I just love whitetails and call it like I see it.



Holly

Black 1

A 225

86C

W13

B510



These ***** credentials have all been accurately mentioned previously and in my mind they are the cream of the crop! Put them in a pedigree and sit back and watch it work!!

I would have to agree with several of you on the list of Texas super does. Im sure there are several more out there that I would love to have on my farm, however if I had to pick only 6 it would be(no paticular order).

A225- Kid Rock, Bocephus, Texas Ranger

B510- Max Dream, Kid Dynamite, Dreambo

W13- Overdrive, Maxbo 727

Black1- Hammertime, Hammer, Slege Hammer

Holly - Yardstick, Primetime

86C- Gladiator, Secret Weapon



I would also like to second Derby Sands comment on Bambi 727, and Dreambuck Does. Having 727 or Dreambuck on the bottom side of a pedigree is a good start in Texas.

Bambi727 on bottom of Express, Maxbo 727, Kid Rock, Overdrive, Bocephus, Texas Ranger, just to name a few. The list is growing fast. Remember this is just there first 1 or 2 years of breeding to get that list.



Dreambuck on bottom Max Dream, Kid Dynamite, Easy Does It, Dreambo, Moabb, and more.



Both of these doe lines have shown that they can be line bred or outcrossed to just about anything and work!

I think farm has its own superdoe! The does have gottin so good these days that many many ***** are super. Lot of GOOD mentioned above tho