Kinda got an issue with what some people call typical. SCI says clearly that a typical whitetail deer can only have 3% deductions. That means if your buck is 200 inches that it can only have 6 inches of deductions to be typical. Lets start calling our deer what they are and when we call our deer typical make sure they are typical or at least be close. A 300" deer is not going to be typical. When we start getting this right then maybe we can work on getting typical deer worth more because they are truly harder to come by. I have said this many times and wrote articles for magazines and on and on. There needs to be two price sheets one for typical and one for non-typicals. There are clean non-typical deer but they are still considered non-typical.
Typical Deer
- Thread starter Tom Gleason
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I agree Tom! It is some farmers main goal to raise typical Whitetails but they or we can't make make much money on them! Must compare apples to apples. Thanks Charlie.
I pay more for typical deer because that's what hunters want and I want to be able to get them.
Joined Aug 2009
629 Posts | 0+
Winnsboro, LA
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
La. Bone Collector said:
I think if all breeders got on the same page and set prices for Typ deer different than Non-Typ the buyers would have no choice than to pay said price for the great looking deer they are selling hunters.
Problem would be...Are the ranch owners selling a Typ 200 inch deer for the same price as a Non-Typ? Is 200in a set price....To the hunter...Reguardless of the look!!!
We start charging 20% more for typical so that we can pay 20% more for them and others should follow suite. If we all charge a little more and pay a little more then it allows farmers to raise what we really want.
Hello everybody, im just getting started.
Clean typicals are the goal on our farm.
Are they harder to produce than non-typicals?
Thanks
Daren Lewis
Lawrence Creek Whitetails
Clean typicals are the goal on our farm.
Are they harder to produce than non-typicals?
Thanks
Daren Lewis
Lawrence Creek Whitetails
Just harder to get a pure typical (less then3% deduction) same to raise just hard to hit the mark and have a big score. Easier to raise big clean non typical and get a high score and big money
Joined May 2009
2,369 Posts | 0+
Chillicothe, Missouri
Joined Dec 2012
18 Posts | 0+
Plainfield, WI
I know of a few preserves that charge more for that cleaner typical. Hunters are requesting this kind of buck more and more. This kind of buck has become one of the rarest in the deer farming world.
When I checked the current SCI record book entries for estate whitetails there are 46 bucks listed that score over 200 in the Typical category. There are 49 bucks listed in the Non-typical category that score over 300. Just based on this statistic I would think a 200 inch typical should be worth the same as that 300 non-typical.
When I checked the current SCI record book entries for estate whitetails there are 46 bucks listed that score over 200 in the Typical category. There are 49 bucks listed in the Non-typical category that score over 300. Just based on this statistic I would think a 200 inch typical should be worth the same as that 300 non-typical.
Would you charge the same if they were on your place? I'm not disagreeing with you but this crossed my mind. I personally think if they cost the same you couldn't raise enough 300's. I raise typicals, I might add... and do not have a commercial operation.
I have been trying for a 300 inch for many years and all I get is clean typicals. We got a whole preserve filled with clean typicals and breeders too. They dont score well and thus dont bring the profit potential a 300 non typical will. I will trade you all day long 200 inch typicals for 300 inch non typicals. 200 inch typical sells for about 10,000...300 nontypical sells for about 15,000. My hunters are not as impressed with a typical as they are a non typical because they can the typical type in their back yard. The non typicals are the ones that make their jaw drop and say wow.
Joined Dec 2012
18 Posts | 0+
Plainfield, WI
You can not argue that today a 300 inch buck is worth more than a 200 typical. But I think no one would argue that a 200 inch typical has more value than a 200 inch trashy buck. It is a lot easier to add more points rather than add more inches in the typical frame.
I think it will all come down to supply and demand. There are probably more 500 inch bucks out there than 200 inch plus SCI Typical bucks. I am talking 200 inch plus typical frame with less than 3% nontypical points. The only inches in the score are the typical inches. The nontypical points are not added in the score.
The bulk of the breeders out there are still breeding for inches. We have 300 and 400 inch yearlings. 500 inch 2 year olds.
Now lets look at the typical side of things. I know of a number of preserves that are already trying to line up big typicals for next season. They have long time customers that want to hunt big typicals instead of the big NT next season. Bucks having a 200 inch typical frame with no junk are hard to find. The current SCIl record book typical is under 230. The nontypical record is 616.
Bottom line is more and more preserves will start to have 2 price list. One for Typical and one for Nontypical.
I think it will all come down to supply and demand. There are probably more 500 inch bucks out there than 200 inch plus SCI Typical bucks. I am talking 200 inch plus typical frame with less than 3% nontypical points. The only inches in the score are the typical inches. The nontypical points are not added in the score.
The bulk of the breeders out there are still breeding for inches. We have 300 and 400 inch yearlings. 500 inch 2 year olds.
Now lets look at the typical side of things. I know of a number of preserves that are already trying to line up big typicals for next season. They have long time customers that want to hunt big typicals instead of the big NT next season. Bucks having a 200 inch typical frame with no junk are hard to find. The current SCIl record book typical is under 230. The nontypical record is 616.
Bottom line is more and more preserves will start to have 2 price list. One for Typical and one for Nontypical.
ARCHER 250" MAIN FRAME @2 291LBS
i agree as everyone should be getting back to typical, but very hard to grow "typical" bucks and get the huge scores...
ALTHOUGH I DID GROW "ARCHER" 343" GROSS 250" MAIN FRAIM TYPICAL @ 2
WITH 14' G2'S AND 3'S
IM NOT SURE IF YOU GUYS WOULD SAY ARCHER WAS "TYPICAL" BUT I DO
HE WOULD BE THE LARGEST " MAIN FRAIM TYPICAL " ALIVE AND AT 291LBS AT 2
AND COMPLETE CONTROL EST 308" GROSS @ 2
i agree as everyone should be getting back to typical, but very hard to grow "typical" bucks and get the huge scores...
ALTHOUGH I DID GROW "ARCHER" 343" GROSS 250" MAIN FRAIM TYPICAL @ 2
WITH 14' G2'S AND 3'S
IM NOT SURE IF YOU GUYS WOULD SAY ARCHER WAS "TYPICAL" BUT I DO
HE WOULD BE THE LARGEST " MAIN FRAIM TYPICAL " ALIVE AND AT 291LBS AT 2
AND COMPLETE CONTROL EST 308" GROSS @ 2
Attachments
Rusty both are very nice, wish I could have made it up there this year to see them. Archer is an awesome buck, both are you grow some good one's.
Joined Apr 2009
1,130 Posts | 0+
Columbia, MO
Nice deer Rusty! But they score a little too much for me!! LOL Can you knock some inches off? 
All your points are good. I have scratched my head on this topic for years and also posted my thoughts many times.
I would say that a 200 inch typical is much easier to sell than a 300 inch non-typical. But the deer that would be in highest demand would be a 180 inch 8 point or a 30 inch wide 160 inch 6 point. Hunters are not stupid. They want that shock value on the wall for THE LEAST AMOUNT OF MONEY POSSIBLE. They read the price list of the preserves and want the bucks that have the biggest frames for the least amount of money.
I've often told people that if they want a pen full of the easiest deer to sell just breed for huge 8 pointers. They will sell like crazy and you won't have to market them at all. You will even get a premium for them. Not enough to make up for low score but more than deer in the same class.
I chuckle when I read posts that state that hunters like this or this. Those statements are usually based on personal opinions about what they like. I also chuckle when I read about a breeder that argues about the big typical, then grows a big non-typical and starts promoting it as the next great deer. It has happened many times, even to the big boys.
When asked what hunters like I'll try to give you a couple of examples of what I've noticed during my 20 years of having hunters through my preserves. Take it or leave it. I feel like its a pretty good sample size.
Just imagine that you are a preserve owner and starting the season with 40 bucks to shoot. You have the normal price list that has deer priced by score. You have an even spread of deer from 150-300.
With that scenario what will happen has happened to us every year. We will shoot some of the big deer early because we have those hunters booked early. Then we will shoot all the 150 to 200 inch deer we can find because they are the cheapest hunt. That is the category that most of the new hunters will be in. We will start in on the bigger deer and have to turn down hunters that want the smaller deer the whole time. We will finally get all the deer taken by the end of a LONG season. It feels like we were way short on the 150-200 inch smaller deer. We wish we had more of them. They were much easier to get hunters to shoot. But looking back though the books we really didn’t make any money on them. Hmmmm!
Now imagine the same preserve but this time you have the same 40 bucks to shoot and this time you price them all the same. A hunter can shoot any deer for the same price. What will happen will be just the opposite of the first scenario. The big deer will be taken first and the smaller deer will be harder to sell. Then you will have to discount those to get them taken. The 8 pointers wont be near as attractive and some of the hunters will tell their guides to put them on the highest scoring deer possible. There will be an occasional hunter that prefers a big typical, but when confronted with a much higher scoring deer at the same price, will usually change their minds. I see it all the time. In fact, we tried this one year on one preserve dedicated to bow hunting only and it played out just like that. We dropped that after only one year.
So when I’m asked what to breed for I still think we need a good variety. I respect the breeders that are looking for the big clean typicals and I’m all for it. I also want the breeders that breed for the big non-typicals. I’m all for that too. I wish I had a breeder that was breeding for nothing but huge 8 pointers…LOL. Anyway I always like a good friendly conversation. Keep the thread going and I’ll be more than happy to add my 2 cents. Its all its worth anyway!
All your points are good. I have scratched my head on this topic for years and also posted my thoughts many times.
I would say that a 200 inch typical is much easier to sell than a 300 inch non-typical. But the deer that would be in highest demand would be a 180 inch 8 point or a 30 inch wide 160 inch 6 point. Hunters are not stupid. They want that shock value on the wall for THE LEAST AMOUNT OF MONEY POSSIBLE. They read the price list of the preserves and want the bucks that have the biggest frames for the least amount of money.
I've often told people that if they want a pen full of the easiest deer to sell just breed for huge 8 pointers. They will sell like crazy and you won't have to market them at all. You will even get a premium for them. Not enough to make up for low score but more than deer in the same class.
I chuckle when I read posts that state that hunters like this or this. Those statements are usually based on personal opinions about what they like. I also chuckle when I read about a breeder that argues about the big typical, then grows a big non-typical and starts promoting it as the next great deer. It has happened many times, even to the big boys.
When asked what hunters like I'll try to give you a couple of examples of what I've noticed during my 20 years of having hunters through my preserves. Take it or leave it. I feel like its a pretty good sample size.
Just imagine that you are a preserve owner and starting the season with 40 bucks to shoot. You have the normal price list that has deer priced by score. You have an even spread of deer from 150-300.
With that scenario what will happen has happened to us every year. We will shoot some of the big deer early because we have those hunters booked early. Then we will shoot all the 150 to 200 inch deer we can find because they are the cheapest hunt. That is the category that most of the new hunters will be in. We will start in on the bigger deer and have to turn down hunters that want the smaller deer the whole time. We will finally get all the deer taken by the end of a LONG season. It feels like we were way short on the 150-200 inch smaller deer. We wish we had more of them. They were much easier to get hunters to shoot. But looking back though the books we really didn’t make any money on them. Hmmmm!
Now imagine the same preserve but this time you have the same 40 bucks to shoot and this time you price them all the same. A hunter can shoot any deer for the same price. What will happen will be just the opposite of the first scenario. The big deer will be taken first and the smaller deer will be harder to sell. Then you will have to discount those to get them taken. The 8 pointers wont be near as attractive and some of the hunters will tell their guides to put them on the highest scoring deer possible. There will be an occasional hunter that prefers a big typical, but when confronted with a much higher scoring deer at the same price, will usually change their minds. I see it all the time. In fact, we tried this one year on one preserve dedicated to bow hunting only and it played out just like that. We dropped that after only one year.
So when I’m asked what to breed for I still think we need a good variety. I respect the breeders that are looking for the big clean typicals and I’m all for it. I also want the breeders that breed for the big non-typicals. I’m all for that too. I wish I had a breeder that was breeding for nothing but huge 8 pointers…LOL. Anyway I always like a good friendly conversation. Keep the thread going and I’ll be more than happy to add my 2 cents. Its all its worth anyway!
Sam, I enjoy your comments because they are based in real time experience. Those deerfarmers who buy into the deer breeder pyramid advertising schemes so go back and the the first rule of livestock business" let the buyer beware!" , unfortunately, human nature will override ethical behavior and some people will talk out of both sides of their mouth. It is hard to balance personal likes and dislikes and still make a net profit. Conclusion, the end market user will not only dictate the inventory but will also set the price in accordance with supply and demand.