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What is the best dart size and medicine combo?

K

kkeller

Joined Mar 2010
68 Posts | 0+
Demopolis
We have been using 2cc gel collar darts with a 6 to 1 Xylazine/Telazol mix. We are having problems with getting all the medicine in to the deer. Our deer a calm and we have some darts bounce off and we have to re-dart to get them down all they way. We really do not want to use the barbed dart if we dont have to.



I tried a 1cc dart with a 3 to 1 mix the other day and it put a 3 year old buck down without any problems.



How much xylazine do I need to offset the negative effect of telazol? Will 1 cc work?



Any one using 1.5 cc darts and a 4.5 to 1 mix?



thanks



Karl Keller

[email protected]
 
Karl, I am wondering about why your darts bounce off the deer. Is it possible that you are using too much pressure for the distance you are shooting? I find that if you hit the deer too hard the dart can bounce off as you are describing.
 
I use a green load with our gun set on "1" out to 20 yards, so not sure if we are hitting them to hard.



We shoot them in the hip 90% of the time and the base of the neck if I have no other choice.
 
kkeller said:
I use a green load with our gun set on "1" out to 20 yards, so not sure if we are hitting them to hard.



We shoot them in the hip 90% of the time and the base of the neck if I have no other choice.
Click to expand...



Sorry, I do not use .22 blanks so I can't help with that. Hopefully someone else will jump in with help.
 
kkeller said:
I use a green load with our gun set on "1" out to 20 yards, so not sure if we are hitting them to hard.



We shoot them in the hip 90% of the time and the base of the neck if I have no other choice.
Click to expand...



I use the green charges and normally keep it on #1 out to about 15 yards for a 1 1/2 cc dart, then normally #2 for a 2cc dart for 15 yards to about 25 yards or even 30.

I don't think you're hitting them too hard at all by keeping it on # 1 out to 20... what size needle are you using on your darts? That may have something to do with it if you are using a shorter needle.

Sorry I can't be more help here, just grasping at straws right now.
 
kkeller said:
We have been using 2cc gel collar darts with a 6 to 1 Xylazine/Telazol mix. We are having problems with getting all the medicine in to the deer. Our deer a calm and we have some darts bounce off and we have to re-dart to get them down all they way. We really do not want to use the barbed dart if we dont have to.



I tried a 1cc dart with a 3 to 1 mix the other day and it put a 3 year old buck down without any problems.



How much xylazine do I need to offset the negative effect of telazol? Will 1 cc work?



Any one using 1.5 cc darts and a 4.5 to 1 mix?



thanks



Karl Keller

[email protected]
Click to expand...



First of all, if you are able to get as close as 20 yards, then you might think about using the light brown (2A2) load. It is more than sufficient from that range. Secondly, just for reference, I use 300mg or 333mg Xylazine mixed 4cc to one bottle of Telazol. I give 1cc to adults and .5 cc to fawns and never have a problem. For very tame deer I'll give .7-.8cc. Reverse with 1 mg to every 1lb body weight. Of course the amount of mixture to dart will depend on the body size of your deer, but I would think a 3 to 1 mixture should work perfect.
 
Every deer is different but i use the same thing as Droptine only i mix mine 8-1 and use 2cc darts with 3/4 inch needles for my bck and 1 or 1 1/2cc darts for my does depending on the deer. Some of my doe that are really tame i use straight Xylazine singal strength and they go right out with 1/4-1/2cc. I to use green loads and 20 yards on 1 should be fine all thowe might want to use brown at that close a range.Just my 2 cents for what its worth.
 
Karl,

I find that the line in mixing xylazine to Telazol is mixing 5cc instead of 6cc per bottle. I have too many deer not go down when mixing 6cc per bottle of Telazol. I have proven this more than once in my herd, so I strongly suggest mixing no more than 5cc per bottle of Telazol.

You must use at least 2cc of xylazine to have enough volume of liquid to disolve all the Telazol sufficiently.

Also, instead of the hip (cause my darts were bouncing off as well) I have begun darting in the neck/shoulder and rarely do the darts bounce off. It is also much easier to get the perpendicular angle in the neck/shoulder area that is necessary to deliver the dart. I believe the reason the darts stick better in the neck/shoulder area is because the skin is thicker.

Trust me on all this Karl - 5cc instead of 6, and use the neck/shoulder for your target. And know that more than your dart bouncing out, your ratio of xylazine/telazol probably has more to do with your deer not staying down.

I use the brown loads. I have 5 settings of pressure on my gun. I'll use #2 at 15 yards, #3 at 20-25 yards, #4 at 30-35 yards and #5 @ 40-45 yards.

Having your pressure set too high can & will cause a dart to bounce, but most of the time the dart has still delivered the dose.

Also, I use the 3/4 and 1 in needles seemingly with the same success. I do worry sometimes about the 1 inch being too long if I make a bad shot but on the other hand I'm wanting penetration into the muscle. 3/4 in. is certainly long enough in the summer, and again either seems to work for me with their winter hair.
 
Thanks for your help! We are using a 3/4 inch 2 cc dart. I will try to hit them in the shoulder/ neck area. Will also practice wiht brown loads to see wha they will do.



thanks again.



Karl

[email protected]
 
Sandridge Whitetails said:
Karl,

I find that the line in mixing xylazine to Telazol is mixing 5cc instead of 6cc per bottle. I have too many deer not go down when mixing 6cc per bottle of Telazol. I have proven this more than once in my herd, so I strongly suggest mixing no more than 5cc per bottle of Telazol.

You must use at least 2cc of xylazine to have enough volume of liquid to disolve all the Telazol sufficiently.

Also, instead of the hip (cause my darts were bouncing off as well) I have begun darting in the neck/shoulder and rarely do the darts bounce off. It is also much easier to get the perpendicular angle in the neck/shoulder area that is necessary to deliver the dart. I believe the reason the darts stick better in the neck/shoulder area is because the skin is thicker.

Trust me on all this Karl - 5cc instead of 6, and use the neck/shoulder for your target. And know that more than your dart bouncing out, your ratio of xylazine/telazol probably has more to do with your deer not staying down.

I use the brown loads. I have 5 settings of pressure on my gun. I'll use #2 at 15 yards, #3 at 20-25 yards, #4 at 30-35 yards and #5 @ 40-45 yards.

Having your pressure set too high can & will cause a dart to bounce, but most of the time the dart has still delivered the dose.

Also, I use the 3/4 and 1 in needles seemingly with the same success. I do worry sometimes about the 1 inch being too long if I make a bad shot but on the other hand I'm wanting penetration into the muscle. 3/4 in. is certainly long enough in the summer, and again either seems to work for me with their winter hair.
Click to expand...



Actually, the Telazol is the drug that knocks you're deer down, not the xylazine. So if you were to decrease the amount of xylazine you mix into a bottle, you would increase the concentration of Telazol and I think you'd have better results.
 
Looking at the info gain on this sight. We are going to try shooting a 3/4 inch1 cc dart with a 4 to 1 300ml xylazine/telozol mix.



thanks for the input.
 
wouldnt that be like mixing 12 to 1 of the 100 xylazine, if so you may want to rethink that mix....your choice
 
We have been darting deer since we started in 1992. This is one tip I have learned for sure!



We use the gel collars for:



Medications and vaccines. Of course shots in the chute are much better but sometimes thats just not practical.



But for the purpose of tranquilizing we almost always use the barbed darts. The little bit of extra damage they do is well worth it because they always stick and deliver the full amount of drugs. I would much rather have a little more physical damage than to stress out a deer and chase a deer around that only received 1/2 of a dose. That may lead to many more problems than a small amount of skin damage.



It is also nice if you are darting several to look and see which deer has been darted already. The barbed darts hang in there pretty good.



I think most people don't like the barbed darts because of removal but its really very easy if you know the trick:



Simply pull up on the dart until the barb is showing through the skin. Then take a pair of needle nose pliers and grab the barb. Simply wiggle the barb and dart at the same time and the barb will separate from the dart and both pull out very easily! Then just put a little dressing on it and it rarely causes any problem.



Once you get used to the barbs, darting becomes MUCH easier and you don't have to worry about angles and darts bouncing off. You also save a bunch on drugs!



Just my opinion from the thousands I've put down. :)
 
does that mean with the barb you could dcrease needle size from 3/4" to 1/2"?????
 
Rick - thank you for your concern. Right now we shoot 6/1 mix with 100 xylazine and make 3 2 cc darts.



If we go to a 4 to 1 with 300 xylazine and make 4 1 cc darts.



I have:



25% of a bottle of Telazol instead of 33%

150% strength of xylazine.



Less telazol more xylazine.



Would you still be concerned?



thanks
 
I only use the 3/4 and 1 inch needles. I use the 1 inch on adult heavy bucks and does and the 3/4 on everything else. The problem with the 1/2 inch needle is that is does not go deep enough to get through the layer of fat.



I don't think they make the 1/2 inch needle with a barb???



I do use the gel collars with 1/2 inch needles on fawns.



But as I said before, I prefer to work them through a chute :p
 
personnally from everything we have learned the xylazine is the hardest drug on the animal and a mixture with more Telezol and less xylazine is better on the aniaml, we now mix 100 xylazine 3-4 cc to 1 bottle of Telezol and we are able to use 1-1.5cc dart instead of the 2 cc dart with a 6 to 1 mixture. More expensive but if it is better on our animals health then we feel it is worth it. I think this also eliminates the need for the higher strength 300 xylazine because dart size is reduced already with the 3-4 cc to 1 mix. This is just what we do some farmers on here use xylazine straight and I have as well but no plans to do it again.
 
According the safe capture manual: 4cc of 100mg Xylazine mixed to one bottle of Telazol is the perfect mixture for darting a 66 lb deer with one (1) cc of medicine. So by my calculations, if you use 300 mg Xylazine mixed 4:1 you could dart a 198 lb deer with 1 cc and be in good shape. However, I don't know if that calculation works, but that's what I've done for years. You can back it down a little for smaller or gentler deer. I can tell you from experience, if you dart a gentle deer with 1 cc of this mixture it will be a stormy recovery. I've used this mixture for the last 4 years and never had a deer die from it.



Btw, I use 1/2" needles on 90% of my deer and the 3/4" needles on any bigger bodied deer or half northerns. Always used the gelled collars and rarely have to bump an animal from an incomplete dosage, but it happens on occasion.
 
That mix would probly would be fine. If not try 1 1/2cc darts they cost the same as 1cc darts and mix 6-1. Personaly i use all those combos with no problems and i to have darted well over a thousand deer since been farming and have yet to lose one. However i like 8-1 on my bigger bucks and high strung deer and i use 2cc dart. All those mixes are still 25% telazol. Once you get to know your deer you will find they are all different and some will go down with a lot less drug and some need a little more. Depends on time of year to.
 

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