What is the real reason the DNR is against us.

As much as everything in this world revolves around money I actually don't think money or the idea of us being their competition is really why they hate us.

I think it actually boils down to the perception that whitetails are a "wildlife" animal and as such shouldn't be raised behind fence.

Wildlife officials hate any animal being raised behind fence unless it is traditional livestock. There have been cases where breeders have been able to get endangered (or mostly endangered) species to reproduce. I have actually read where wildlife officials have said they feel it would have been better for the species to have gone extinct rather than been bred in a pen. They seem to feel the act of putting up a fence and enclosing a "wild" animal is similar to say, raping a virgin. Like breeders somehow steal the life away from the animals.

I don't think there is a way of changing that sort of mind set. Like the old saying goes.... You can't fix stupid.

It comes down to a purist attitude and jealously combined. How else can they stand behind the fact that 80% of the deer killed in the wild are 18 months old or younger. No sport in that but its pure. It is far easier to just kill a deer in the wild that it is to kill a trophy on a preserve. If all we wanted to do was shoot 100-130 inch deer I would take all my clients on state property and have just as high success rate. If we did not make money at it and we did not cull out bigger bucks than most of these guys will ever see in their life we would not have as big of fight. They are not smart enough to realize that if all the hunters,promotion and money involved in High Fence were removed hunting in general would decline and be gone in our lifetime.

I think ER Whitetails might be on to something, Really stop, Take a minute and be very open-minded. We (deer farmers) say we are for hunting in the wild as much as we are for hunting behind fence. We could prove it.... For Example...... I am a deer farmer, if I took $50.00 off every head of shooters I sold to the preserves and then the preserves added another $50.00 for every head harvested for sort of a "license" fee to be donated to the DNR to help them out and to make their fear of us taking away their lively hood. I really think that would open some eyes and show the world we don't want to take away hunting in the wild we are really trying to help preserve it as well. I think; is sort of what ER Whitetails was talking about. We would then be a benefit to them not a burden. It would be great if we could all work together on things like CWD and EHD, instead of spending all our time fighting each other. I've had DNR officers at my farm and say they would love to do what I do, but they can't for fear of losing their jobs. I think it would be awesome if my Game Warden was a deer farmer...... no really think about that for just a minute..... I guess my point here is if you have enemies you always have to watch your back, if you make your enemies your friends, they always have your back. We don't only need to unite as deer farmers, we need to unite all together. Hunters, deer farmers, DNR, hunting preserves, would all benefit greatly if we all worked together and not against each other. Maybe the answer to our problems is not to fight, but to stop fighting and find a way to work together. Yeah I know after some of you read this you'll think I'm crazy and you not going to give another penny to the DNR or anyone else that has given us a hard time along the way, and I can't say I blame you. Like with anything else someone needs to be the bigger man. We need to drop our pride and be the bigger man to stop the fighting and see if we can ALL work together.



P.S. I had a guy tell me one time not to come to him with a problem but to come to him with a solution. Another words if everyone would post an idea to try and fix things instead of arguing about it I think we could accomplish anything we want. Not saying this is the solution but it is def. an idea. Lets hear everyone else's.

Clay I think your on to something about the surcharge on both ends as farmers and preserve owners. However, I think the money would be better put toward promotion or the industry and a political lobbying campaign. We need a plan and a way to fund it. We have to be proactive.we have to Promote our industry and educate the public. Just my two cents

That's why they don't hate us as bad in Oklahoma. Almost all of our hunters come from out of state. They have to buy a nonresident hunting license for 142.50 once a year and a 20.00 carcass tag for each animal they shoot. Whitetails of Oklahoma also donates money to help sponsor their Wildlife youth expo. They make thousands a year off of me that they would never had gotten otherwise. Your idea to get along is exactly why we done it. It has worked well for us.

Kurt I know we need to advertise and get the public more on our side, but I also think we def. need to get any major group that is against us on our side, so we have that support also. I guess DNR would be the only ones we need to worry about right now besides all the tree huggers and if we have DNR on our side, I don't think we would have to worry to much about the tree huggers. If there is less negative talk about our industry through the DNR that would be a pretty strong promotion in it's self. Like I said it may not be a perfect solutions but we all need to come together with ideas and keep this going.



Tim, so what your saying is you have to buy a lic. in OK even if you hunting on a preserve? I sure think that would make them think twice about wanting to shut us down.

Yes Clay. We buy a commercial hunt area license and the hunters have to have a hunting license and the animal has a carcass tag on it. We passed that for the very reasons being discussed here.

Hey guys that's all fine and dandy but at this point can we afford giving in an additional $50.00 per head ? We'd better know it's going to help out enough before we go donating money we don't really make here. Gosh by the time we pay a licence fee , testing fee's , fence inspection fee's , $600.00+ for grain a few bucks for semen and AIing are we really making much ? I'm limited to what a preserve pays me as I'm just a little breeder here. I really think some of the reasons the DNR dislikes deer farming is they get saddled with inspections and things they really don't want to do or mess with. I really think if we wouldn't allow all the rules and regs that make no sense to be but upon us we'd all be better off both the farmers as well as the DNR ! We have allowed countless new rules and regulations to be slapped in our faces in just the past 8 years over the over reaction to CWD more than all other livestock industries have endured in the last 50 . I know when my warden inspected my fence he was shocked at all the paper work involved , and couldn't seem to understand the purpose of all of it . I agree most wardens don't understand themselves why they need to mess with us when they'd rather be doing other things , the things they went to be a warden for ! Most wardens are outdoors men that want to be outdoors checking hunters and fishermen and not messing with countless sheets of paper to inspect a dang deer fence. It's like your vet , he didn't go to college to make a living working on deer ! He'll do it but he really wants to work on cattle, horses or dogs and cats as thats what he spent 6 years going to college for ! I agree though we need ideas here but I'm a lawsuit kinda guy at this point as I've not seen much progress in our direction in any other avenue in the past 10 years. If we fling enough idea's around we'll come up with a plan ..I hope !!!!

Wooden acres, i feel you trust me im a very small deer farmer too and do not have any extra money to be throwing around but i think it would be easier to come up with 50 bucks if and when i sell a deer then trying to come up with a bunch of money right now for a lawsuit. and just say we did sue the pants off them and won they are always going to be looking for a way to get back at us and i don't want to have to sleep with one eye open. the idea was to make our industry benefit them somehow. it doesn't have to be 50 dollars a deer, just benefit them in some way that way, They don't want to shut us down if it benefits them enough. they might even help us in a lot of ways maybe we all need to do it like in O.K. were everybody that hunts in a hunting preserve has to buy a hunting lic. i don't know exactly how to make it benefit them i just like the thought of stopping the fighting all together better then a lawsuit where every thing might be all right for a little while; then it all starts up again. we need to make where every time they mess with us they are just hurting their selves. how i do not know but it would be great to hear some more ideas....

Guys heading out to go camping for a week, I'll catch up with whats going on with this when I get back. Just thought I would let everyone know, that way if anyone asked a question they wouldn't think I was ignoring them.

I love your idea clay,im a small deer farmer also,and don't have extra money to throw around,but i would much rather give them a small slice of the pie,rather then having to fight them all the time.If we become an asset to them i think they would soon change their tune.As far as lawsuits go,i think 80% of the time you are just throwing your money away,you might win a small battle here and there,but i don't think were gonna win the war with the route we are taking now

Who's our biggest problems , USDA or the DNR ? I don't seem to have much against the Wi DNR being they're only in charge of the fences . I've have seen the wardens getting more and more people friendly over the years and see nothing wrong with the way they treat me . It's the bullcrap from the USDA that bothers me . We are loosing the battle , and soon deer farming will be outlawed everywhere , it's the way the general public see's things . We even need to somewhat hide a harvested deer in transport as it OFFENDS the non-hunters ! People are into vidio crap and loosing interest in hunting and exercise . The worlds changing way to fast for this ol boy , I liked it simple and easy ..lol

I think this is an awesome idea...as long as it's reasonable.......but if we are part of their pay check why would you fight against us........I like the idea.......what is everyone else's take.......there are pros and cons to every good idea....unfortunately.....

Todd, The lawsuit from last year you are familiar with was absolutely a waste of good money but that was because of people in charge of the suit. If not for the suit filed years ago the preserve industry in Indiana would be non existent and deer farms would not be far behind. The next few months will determine the future of the entire industry.

Guy's can we keep this going ? I have been talking to some people from O.K. and it is working good for them

The main problem with your line of thinking here resides in the differences between the agencies in different states.



In OK for instance: Commission approved the Wildlife Department's Fiscal Year 2014 budget of about $61 million



In MN for instance: Biennial budget of $957.9 million for the MDNR in 2012-2013



The budgets in these two states are very different as is size and breadth of the state agencies. Any license fees collected from pen raised deer would have to be an order of magnitude larger to have the same effect in MN as it does in OK. I believe this will be the problem for most of the northern states,

fars, Dr. Hartman told me the Minnesota DNR budget was $700 million a year, with a staff of 2000. The Board of Health has a staff of 40, with a budget of $5 million.

IndependenceRanch said:

As much as everything in this world revolves around money I actually don't think money or the idea of us being their competition is really why they hate us.

I think it actually boils down to the perception that whitetails are a "wildlife" animal and as such shouldn't be raised behind fence.

Wildlife officials hate any animal being raised behind fence unless it is traditional livestock. There have been cases where breeders have been able to get endangered (or mostly endangered) species to reproduce. I have actually read where wildlife officials have said they feel it would have been better for the species to have gone extinct rather than been bred in a pen. They seem to feel the act of putting up a fence and enclosing a "wild" animal is similar to say, raping a virgin. Like breeders somehow steal the life away from the animals.

I don't think there is a way of changing that sort of mind set. Like the old saying goes.... You can't fix stupid.

Click to expand...

Please see the below link which shows that Iowa producers have been raising whitetails behind fence since the 1800s. Escaped captive whitetail help repopulate Iowa's wild herd.





http://www.iowadnr.gov/portals/idnr/uploads/Hunting/deer_history.pdf?amp;tabid=1214