Mineral/Top Dress

Four Seasons Whitetails said:

Thats cool things are workin out good for you and i in no way would ever want to deal with any of that ehd stuff myself. As far as ehd you could very well just be a lucky man not to have that little bug hit your farm yet. You have to remember ehd hit a farm in pa last year and took out 18 top animals and this farm was in a circle of deer farms all the way around him. That bug had to pass farms to get to this farm. You could be the luck of the draw. Im not knockin larrys product. There are farms down south in ehd areas that are on shock products and they have not been hit when farms around them have. As far as the price question above. I paid 150.00 for the last bucket i bought. I picked it up while in pa and i belive the bucket i read somewhere said it did ten head. Bottom line what i said is you cant start usin something and say it made a difference and be 100% unless you have a problem to begin with. I like the way josh is doing a test on it with some animals on and some not. If he feeds everything 100% the same feed with no changes in anything at all except the product in one pen and not in the other that will be a good test. As far as using something to keep your deer healthy i say have at it,We owe these animals that when we put them behind fence. I stated mine on a dairy product made by epic after seeing a farm that has been on it for years and this guy has the top record deer year after year. Its all about the gut. No shock,no larry,no a&e for this farm, We all just have to do whats good for us!!

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So you bought BulletProof, but didn't use it?



I also thought you were buying feed from Larry that had BulletProof already mixed into it?



Also, what about this post/comment you made previously:



Larry you were 100% on the money with this product. After this 3yr old has been getting your product he is back to looking great and he now does not just lay around watching the other deer run around, he is right there with the fawns bucking and jumping like a kid. Thanks for your help with my feed change. I will say if anyone is thinking on using a health additive for their deer should call larry.



I'm a little confused!!



Am I the only one here?



I'm not trying to start an argument here, just trying to understand.



This is the link to the previous thread:

http://www.deerforums.com/vbforums/showthread.php?t=5896&highlight=pathfinder



Anyone who takes vitamins to increase their health and overall well being can relate to using a product, or in my case, Bulletproof to help increase the overall health of my animals!!

Gehringer Deer Ranch said:

So you bought BulletProof, but didn't use it?



I also thought you were buying feed from Larry that had BulletProof already mixed into it?



Also, what about this post/comment you made previously:



Larry you were 100% on the money with this product. After this 3yr old has been getting your product he is back to looking great and he now does not just lay around watching the other deer run around, he is right there with the fawns bucking and jumping like a kid. Thanks for your help with my feed change. I will say if anyone is thinking on using a health additive for their deer should call larry.



I'm a little confused!!



Am I the only one here?



I'm not trying to start an argument here, just trying to understand.



This is the link to the previous thread:

http://www.deerforums.com/vbforums/showthread.php?t=5896&highlight=pathfinder



Anyone who takes vitamins to increase their health and overall well being can relate to using a product, or in my case, Bulletproof to help increase the overall health of my animals!!

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Thats what i was saying all along. I never bought feed with it in it. I,Thanks to larry. Changed my feed, Hence total different animal. Was it feed or was it larrys product or was it shock conditioner he was on. Dont know!!! Thats why the comment does anyone have a problem with their deer, Then give product,Then have results?? It goes back to not knockin something i use myself just want to know if people are giving true comebacks on something withouit knowing for sure it was one thing that fixed it. In my case i changed 3 things at the same time so i cant give a 100% true answer of what fixed my problem. Again i think josh will have a true result with his test.

Four Seasons Whitetails said:

Thats what i was saying all along. I never bought feed with it in it. I,Thanks to larry. Changed my feed, Hence total different animal. Was it feed or was it larrys product or was it shock conditioner he was on. Dont know!!! Thats why the comment does anyone have a problem with their deer, Then give product,Then have results?? It goes back to not knockin something i use myself just want to know if people are giving true comebacks on something withouit knowing for sure it was one thing that fixed it. In my case i changed 3 things at the same time so i cant give a 100% true answer of what fixed my problem. Again i think josh will have a true result with his test.

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I'm not sure that is how your posts are coming off. I wasn't sure if that was intended that way or what. I personally, changed nothing except adding BulletProof. I plan on continuing it's use. I did get a sample of it at first, but as I said previously, I've been paying for it for many months.



Our fawns are also on it as well, but only in the feed. This year we switched our fawns to a 50/50 mix of River City formula and RAW milk. We had the least number of issues with our fawns (almost none) this year on this combination. We give our fawns C&E Fawn Paste at birth, and Lamb Serum. Outside of this nothing else at this point.



Again, not trying to start a fight or argument, it just seemed like there were conflicting posts.

I will try this again. I think I have a simple solution for all this supplement stuff and it’s pretty simple. I would like to see pictures from all four of the supplement companies. Bullet Proof, Revive, Shock Effect, C&E or any other supplements. I only want pictures from bucks and does that were born and raised on your personal farms under your direct supervision. I don’t want pictures from deer raised on your products that are owned by someone else. I don’t want pictures of deer that you own with someone else on a different farm. I just figure that if yours don’t look good then how can mine.



This is how I will narrow my product selection down.



1. If you don’t raise deer that’s a negative I would rather support people who do, instead of just someone trying to make money off us.

2. If you don’t post pictures I have to assume they don’t look to good.

3. I will base my personal opinion on how healthy they look and the antler size since that’s what this is all about.

4. Have you personally lost any deer in the past or present to EHD?



I have a few questions for Larry and no one else. Sorry for singling you out but you seem to be the main topic. I’m not interested in hearing comments from the same six people that got the product for free. Larry your front label says “test results show that Bullet proof helps”.



1. Boost the immune system

2. Rapid recovery from internal/external injuries

3. Organ tissue repair

4. Lower stress enzymes

5. Muscle Development

6. Rapid reproduction of red and white blood cells

7. Protect against viruses and toxins

8. Digestive efficiency

9. Antler growth



Can you show us actual lab test results to back any of the above claims since it says on the back label we make no guarantee on this product other than guaranteed analysis.



I also noticed when all this first started you had an herbal supplement containing only about 10% probiotics but you only listed one herb on the label. Are there others?



Next and this is a big one for me. Does your product prevent or cure EHD? Was there an actual nutritionist that helped you formulate this or did you come up with this on own?



I don’t think I’m asking too much from these companies and this should not be a problem if they believe in their own products.

All my deer are on Shock Effect year round. No EHD or any deaths this year.

Had 55 fawns this year with no deaths of health issues

Over 65 Adult deer on the product.

All pics are 2 yr olds

Last pic is a yearling

I've tried Bulletproof this year in my buck pens and not in my doe or fawn pens. I feed the same feed to bucks and does. I noticed that my bucks put weight on this spring and are looking good in spite of this terrible drought we are going through. The big test is just starting here on are farm. EHD has killed several does and fawns. My neighbor about a mile or so away has lost several does, fawns and 4 bucks. They have found wild deer up and down the river that runs a scant 100 yards from the front of my property. We are worried but so far the bulletproof seems to be making a difference. If by the time the first frost arrives and this horrible disease comes to an end and we still have our bucks standing I will then be sold. Next year all the deer will be on bulletproof. If not, I will admit it as I pay for my pails and will get nothing for endorsing or critisising it. Rick

deerrut said:

I will try this again. I think I have a simple solution for all this supplement stuff and it’s pretty simple. I would like to see pictures from all four of the supplement companies. Bullet Proof, Revive, Shock Effect, C&E or any other supplements. I only want pictures from bucks and does that were born and raised on your personal farms under your direct supervision. I don’t want pictures from deer raised on your products that are owned by someone else. I don’t want pictures of deer that you own with someone else on a different farm. I just figure that if yours don’t look good then how can mine.



This is how I will narrow my product selection down.



1. If you don’t raise deer that’s a negative I would rather support people who do, instead of just someone trying to make money off us.

2. If you don’t post pictures I have to assume they don’t look to good.

3. I will base my personal opinion on how healthy they look and the antler size since that’s what this is all about.

4. Have you personally lost any deer in the past or present to EHD?



I have a few questions for Larry and no one else. Sorry for singling you out but you seem to be the main topic. I’m not interested in hearing comments from the same six people that got the product for free. Larry your front label says “test results show that Bullet proof helps”.



1. Boost the immune system

2. Rapid recovery from internal/external injuries

3. Organ tissue repair

4. Lower stress enzymes

5. Muscle Development

6. Rapid reproduction of red and white blood cells

7. Protect against viruses and toxins

8. Digestive efficiency

9. Antler growth



Can you show us actual lab test results to back any of the above claims since it says on the back label we make no guarantee on this product other than guaranteed analysis.



I also noticed when all this first started you had an herbal supplement containing only about 10% probiotics but you only listed one herb on the label. Are there others?



Next and this is a big one for me. Does your product prevent or cure EHD? Was there an actual nutritionist that helped you formulate this or did you come up with this on own?



I don’t think I’m asking too much from these companies and this should not be a problem if they believe in their own products.

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Things that make you go hmmmmm....



No replies?????

deerrut said:

Things that make you go hmmmmm....



No replies?????

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I think this is about the animal's health, my animal's are healthy. Most other's around me are dead, dead, dead. To be fair though I do have one fawn with pneumonia right now so I have had one sick deer. When I darted him two day's ago that was the first deer I have darted other than ehd vaccination's since putting deer down for a.i.



As far as antler size, will it make them larger. I have no idea, to be honest I dont care. I just do not think there is any magic feed out there to make them grow more than they should. Antler = genetic's, genetic's, genetic's not magic. But I have to say I am pleased with my buck's. If I could post photo's I would. I only have 1 3 year old junk buck was 112 as a 2 year old will go 150 at 3, 2 2 year old's they were 60-70 inch yearling's the smallest will be 140 the larger 150's clean typical's. 2 yearling's 1 is messed up will be 115-120 the other will be high 130's may even be 140's.



I think this is all about the health of the animal's, and I am more than pleased there. Some say they have to be sick first to prove anything, I do not agree. Nothing is perfect and nothing will save all of the animal's out there, but if they are stronger it cant hurt. As far as EHD I dont think there is anything that will cure it, I do think if you keep them as healthy and strong as you can it just may prevent it. Or at least for me so far this year that is what it seem's to have done.



If I post about a product that has worked for me I do it so other's looking for some help can hear the result's I am having. I am not selling any product. I want your animal's to be healthy as well. Are there other product's that do the same thing, I don't know. I have not used them.

deerrut



Larry doesn't get on these forums much at all. Just be patient, I'm sure you'll hear from him.



If you want to talk to him about his product, it would be best to call him. If you don't get him, leave a message and he will call you back.



Just as a note, Larry does raise deer as well. He treats them as if they are his own children!!!



Larry's number is 717-860-6647.

RLA that's great to here your deer are doing well. Just wondering if the other deer around you are getting the same EHD vaccine you used?



Todd, as a matter of fact pathfinder was just on at 7:52pm, if you click on his name you can see the last time he was on. I know he has been on every day for past few days at least with no reply.



As far as the rest of them go, it just suprises me that none of them have replyed either. I would have thought they would want to show off the results of their products to all the potential costomers up here. I don't think it's asking to much to see their products at work. It seems pretty simple to me.

When assessing or evaluating herd health supplements, one must first become familiar with specific Whitetail physiological characteristics. Some examples are; increased rumen motility(flow rate and activity), lack of gall bladder attached to the liver, obligatory fat and mineral storage, just to name a few. Then we take a look at overall standards and practices within your management system. The number one goal in standards and practices is the mitigation of stressors..this includes sight, sound, touch, smell, taste...once these are addressed to some satisfaction, then we move on to nutrition, expressed as energy needs...currently, there is no NE(net energy) baseline established for whitetail,but one can use approximate cattle guidelines regarding body condition and weight scoring, and be relatively safe...always remember, energy is sharply defined in ruminating animals, first to maintain bodily functions and body condition, reproduction, immune system, and lastly...hooves and antlers. If net energy needs are unmet at the top of the ladder, energy is drawn from another lower partition...Now, I've stated all that to say this..regardless of the product, you have to figure out how to get around the limiting factors without causing a shortfall somewhere else...task-specific DFM's will certainly help you safely reach the NE goal, and you are correct in asking for the research...environment, along with different handling and feedstuff variables certainly will influence any cogent decision...just something to ponder, good luck!

deerrut said:

RLA that's great to here your deer are doing well. Just wondering if the other deer around you are getting the same EHD vaccine you used?



Todd, as a matter of fact pathfinder was just on at 7:52pm, if you click on his name you can see the last time he was on. I know he has been on every day for past few days at least with no reply.



As far as the rest of them go, it just suprises me that none of them have replyed either. I would have thought they would want to show off the results of their products to all the potential costomers up here. I don't think it's asking to much to see their products at work. It seems pretty simple to me.

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As far as EHD vaccination's all of the deer in this area get the same thing. All came from U of I, I had deer at another farm vaccinated them all the same. Those deer are dead, everything the same except Bulletproof. This year has destroyed so many good animal's in my area. I would like to think that some how the bug just passed my animal's but I dont think that is the case. That is why I support Larry's product so strong, that is the only thing I used at my home farm that was not used on the other farm. I want to see the test result's from all of the farm's as bad as anyone. I want healthy animal's and will use what I can to help keep them alive and well.



But yes, all other deer that are now dead were vaccinated with the same product.

Let me re-phrase this...



Larry doesn't post a whole lot on the forums.



Things can be taken very wrong and misconstrued/mis-interpreted.



You would be much better served giving him a call.

Todd



Although some of my post is pointed toward Larry, the rest of it was for all the other owners as well. I'm still waiting for not only Larry, but all the other owners. Again, I don't think I'm asking to much here.

deerrut said:

Todd



Although some of my post is pointed toward Larry, the rest of it was for all the other owners as well. I'm still waiting for not only Larry, but all the other owners. Again, I don't think I'm asking to much here.

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Good luck with your research!

OK Deerrut I"ll take the bait. First off livestocker is right on target. Your bucks will even draw nutrients from there own skeletal system when needed. Keep in mind these supplements are designed to help improve your nutritional program and without that you have nothing. As far as pictures here are some of ours.



The first two pictures are a couple of our does. Yes those two are does from yesterday. I think love is in the air. The third an fourth is a picture of a yearling that ripped his antler and pedicle out of his skull in early June. The other picture is what he looks like now. I thought he was ruined. The fifth and six pictures are one of our two year olds. The seventh and eighth pictures are of one of our 3 year olds. The last two are some more three year olds. I will try to post some of Faye and Steve's pictures. For those of you who dont know Faye and Steve are my partners.

Here are some of Faye and Steve's deer. The first one is a 2 year old. The second one is a three year old and the third one is a 2 year old. Steve I think you better send the three year old to weight watchers.

ok i got to ask,what is causing the end of the tines to hook down on the two year old of steves ,ive got a yearling doing the same thing

David, he probably bent it over in the feed trough. Steve had him in a pen with an older trough that was shallow and wide. We both have switched over to a cut pipe style feeder. They seem to do less damage to their antlers. I first saw the pipe style feeders at Nathan Blossers. You can see one of these feeders in the second to last picture of on the first post. Having the feeder up higher helps keep their head in an upright position. If their nose is pointed down usually their beams are pretty close to the ground. We have very few with blunt tips.

I will try and answer your questions: no there was not a nutritionist helping with this because i was not working on a feed mix. when i started i had the help of a vet that practiced ethnomedicine for close 20yrs with great success in goats, sheep and cattle and for the past 4yrs have had the help of a microbioloist whos specialty is virology, he is the one that developed the cell builder in this. before this was ever put out there it was used on my deer for years, it was only until i left some local farms use this and they had success with the overall health of their animals and pushed me into getting this out there that i moved forward. a year ago i gave it away free for people to test i did not feel right charging somebody for something that did not help all i wanted was the truth in they saw improvement or not over $45,000. later i could not afford to give it away any more. people that are on this are only giving their opinion it's nothing in stone. the reason for the statement on the label is because some do not follow feeding direction i have those that are mixing it in a ton of feed and i feel they are losing some of it one was trying to mix it in water. as far as the plant not listed that's what plant by product means these are all plants that are natural food for ruminants such as raspberry leaves, blackberry leaves, dandelion root etc and are natural medicines for ruminants. in my eye some of the products help the animals health and survival rate greatly. when i first started i had a doe empty her ruminant because of bad bac overload i tried every probiotic out there to get her gone again but she was going down hill fast so i went to where they were butchering steers and cut open a fresh warm stomach and squeezed the ruminant juices into a mason jar ran it through a paint strainer and gave her 60cc oral 3 times within 48 hrs she was pellets now if shock effects would have been out there i would not have had to go through that. i think shock effects is on the cutting edge of keeping the ruminant to highest level possible and i feel the same about this for the immune and blood there are those out there that spend most of there time trying to start a war between products. i was raising deer when the forum first came out back then everyone was trying to help one another i learned alot from Scott Heinrick to me he was the internet vet i still have copies of his advice in a reference book that i made somewhere along the line some forgot what this is all about (the animal) there is no magic posion out there only little things that can maybe help. come late fall i will give a list of the farms and there loses until then i would like time for my rear to heal from the beating it has taken! ya your right i am on the forum about everyday, but mainly to look at the farms and their bucks. larry