amount of drugs

The amount of xylazine used to re-constitute telazol is dependent on the mg/ml concentration of the xylazine used. Additionally, the mixture needs to be made such that the telazol and xylazine cocktail does what is intended, meaning the telazol needs to be the right amount to counteract the negative effects of the xylazine. The fact that you refer to "It seems like a waste because I am not getting a full bottle when mixed" shows that you have no idea exactly why you are mixing the two drugs. Maybe a little more research on why the two drugs are used together would more appropriately answer your question as to why you do not get a "full" bottle after reconstituting.

Robert, do you know why telazol is mixed with Xylazine? The concentration is different depending on the strength of the Xylazine used to reconstitute the powder. Soluability is also a key factor in the mixture. I am always amused at the varying amount of Xylazine people discuss, without the knowledge of why the two drugs are mixed in the first place. Fortunately, the cocktail is a forgiving in its potency and that's why people have not killed more deer with it.

Dassy , I like you thought you could come here to do research on anything relating to deer. Guess I was wrong. Some people act like they invented the drug, and did the hands on research as to the best way to use it. Most likely, they learned just like you and I are trying to do. Wouldn't it have been nice to get the nice staight forward answer and an explanation as to why. This is a very good example of why i won't post much on here.



Dassy check your private messages.

I think this answers you real question.

I use 6cc of xylazine (100 mg per ml) mixed into my telazol. I use 1 cc on the does and

1 1/2 cc on small bucks and 2 cc on big bucks. If the buck is a yearling I just use 1 cc. This has always worked for me. Hope this helps.

Hey willows, my intent was to make Dassy do some research on her own, like reading the lable instructions that come on every bottle of telazol and every bottle of xylazine. More learned people than you and I took the time to test the dosage rates and mixture amounts. I believe that everyone using these potentially lethal chemicals have a good understanding of how they work. I have always recommended a good semminar before one begins to use these chemicals. (In many states it is the law) What if I had answered Dassy with the following: I mix 12cc of 450 mg/ml Xylazine with 1 5gr bottle ofTelazol and it works fine for me..... Do you think she would have known better? Now maybe you get my point. P.S I didn't invent the drug, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Scott, how was the shower head......

It was great Rick and the VIP suite I rented also had body sprays in the shower and a Jaccuzi!

Glad to hear it

Folks, not that Scott needs me to defend him but, he is right. One needs to learn the drugs that they are useing. He was very helpful to me and will always answer any questions we have. He pointed me in the right direction and by the way Scott, the buck that I had problems with last year was the easiest this time. Thank you. Everyone has the right and responsiblity to learn all we can about deer and the drugs it takes to keep them alive. Dassy, I'm sure that Scott would help you in any way he can. Do yourself and your deer a favor and give him a call. It was worth the effort for me... Good luck

From all the threads I had read over the years, in my opinion, I feel that Scott is in the top 3 as far as having the most knowledge on here. If he answers your question, there is usually no need for another answer. Jeff

Sedation is controlled euthenasia. Decimals kill. Contrindications. You hear me repeat these comments over and over. I have said several times how our industry needs better pharmacology knowledge. I don't believe in doing something just because another farmer recommends it, regardless of their years of experience or perceived knowledge. I take their suggestion, and do my own research about it, apply some logic and common sense, try to educate myself as to "why" this is the recommendation, and often come to the conclusion that it is sound advice. However, there have been times that I have found scientific evidence that it is poor advice, and they have quite possibly been lucky to get away with such practices in their program. Because we do not have a handbook for how to raise deer, and there isn't a "standard" in practice, we owe it to our herds, and to the people that ask us all for advice, to put in the due diligence and take the responsibility to do our homework. I doubt any of you would open a medicine cabinet and grab a handfull of prescription bottles and just start feeding pills randomly to one of your children. You know that mixing Rx meds can be deadly. You read the label, call a Dr., research it online. We need to take the same precautions with our livestock. We deal with very potent and potentially dangerous drugs in this business. We have a huge responsibility to educate ourselves as much as possible about them. We need to be very careful in giving out advice, because all people aren't aware that Rompun comes in different concentrations, or that there is more than one way to constitute Telazol to achieve different strengths, or that the brand name and the drug name refer to the same compound......Our advice needs to assume that we are answering the questions of a rookie, and not take details for granted. It seems when someone tries to go that extra step, and point out the 'maybe obvious' just in case it isn't all that obvious, they get slammed for being a smart *** or condescending. The trade off here is too great, there is too much at risk to let ego into the mix. When someone tries to motivate you to learn the "why" behind the "what" try to look for the lesson and opportunity to grow your knowledge.

To answer the original question, we do not put Xyl. into the Telazol bottle, we mix 1.7cc sterile water for injection with the Tel. to make a super concentrated solution. We use 380mg/ml Xly. from a med. shop. We dart according to weight, and have a chart that has doses pre-calculated in 10lb increments. It is rare that we need bigger than a 1.5cc dart to knock down any of our big deer. Tameness and illness have an effect on this, as well, so it is not always exactly by the chart. Variables always come into play. We use water in the Tel. because it buys you some "shelf life" for the Tel. if we are only knocking down 1 deer, and have to mix a new bottle. It will keep a little longer w/o the Xly. already in it. I never use a drug that is discolored or cloudy.

OK for those of you who chastized me, here is the email Dassy sent me today. How would you answer this?





OK Dassy, let's talk! Either email your phone number to me or call me at 225-301-3159 and I will help you as best as I can, but I am a bit confused by your email.



Scott



02 - Your Email Address
= [email protected]

03 - Your Telephone (if you'd like us to call you)
=

04 - Best time to call you?
=

05 - Type your question below
= My question on deer farmer about getting a full bottle of telazol still not answered. I am only a farmer with 13deer HOBBY. How about a strait answer about the amount of xylazine to put in my 50ml bottle, and how much to use to trank my bucks. It would be very much appreciated. Thanks



--------------- End of Form ---------------



This is a form response generated on webs.com for sssdeer.

If you believe that this is an unsolicited email,

please visit http://members.webs.com/pages/report and file a complaint.

I'm with you, Scott. What does a "full" bottle have to do with it, when it is the concentration and ratio that makes the difference in the sedative effect. I am confused by the question. Also, why would you constitute a 50 ml bottle, when you have so few head and it is so expensive? I don't get the logic here at all.

Heck Robbie, I have never seen a 50ml bottle of Telazol, let alone be able to afford one!

Scott and Robbie,



I'm with you guys 100%. These are serious drugs we're using and every vet out there is putting their license in our hands when they sell us these drugs. I'm a little suprised that someone could even get there hands on these drugs with that little of knowledge about them. I would strongly urge anyone getting into this business or "hobby" to take a safecapture course to understand why we mix xylazine and Telazol. I was in this same boat when I got into the business and used mixtures that people and friends passed down to me, but until I took the class I didn't really know why I was doing it. Plus, there is a lot to learn about caring for the animals while they are under sedation.

Scott and Robbie - you all are right on!!!! Reminds me of a saying, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

We all need to be very careful in using drugs on deer, people, etc!!!!

Below is a copy and pasted version of an email from Whitetails of Wisconsin to it's members. I thought this might be helpful in the correct way for someone.

-----------------------





Safe-Capture is returning to Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan with workshops for those working with White-tailed Deer, Elk, and Non-Native Deer (Mule, Fallow, Axis, Sika, Red, Reindeer):



"Chemical Immobilization of White-tailed Deer, Elk, and Non-Native Deer"





Wisconsin: Stevens Point: UW College of Natural Resources: October 24-25, 2009







Illinois: Elgin: (NW Chicago Area): Elgin Police Department: November 17-18, 2009







Indiana: Indianapolis: Indianapolis Zoo: December 3-4, 2009







Michigan: Lansing: Quality Suites Hotel Lansing: January 27-28, 2010







***Also Returning to Wisconsin: Wausau: Plaza Hotel and Suites: April 8-9, 2010***



(just prior to and at the same location as the 2010 Whitetails of Wisconsin Annual Banquet!!)







Also enclosed is information on our

White-tailed Deer "Semen Production & Artificial Insemination" Workshop





Texas: Brenham: Washington County Fairgrounds: March 20, 2010







Texas: Del Rio: City of Del Rio Civic Center: March 22, 2010



**********************************************************************************************************************

"Chemical Immobilization of White-tailed Deer, Elk, and Non-Native Deer"



This is Safe-Capture's Internationally Acclaimed Chemical Immobilization workshop. This workshop was presented at the World Deer Congress. This is a 16 hour information packed workshop, which includes 2 hours of hands on practice with the equipment. This workshop will be presented by Dr. Keith Amass, Dr. Mark Drew, Dr. Patrick Morris, and Dr. Kenneth Waldrup.



Topics to be discussed will include:



· Custom drug combinations and formulations which minimize induction times--the time from dart impact until the animal is immobilized. (Dr. Amass has drug combinations and techniques that will safely immobilize a White-tailed deer in 64 seconds, with drug combinations now mixed according to ambient temperature!)



· Safe and reliable drug and dosage recommendations for Deer and Elk in various levels of confinement--from tame animals in close captivity, to wild temperament animals that are in large enclosures or free ranging. (One drug combination or dosage does not fit all situations!)



· Proper injection sites to ensure rapid drug absorption and effects



· Capture strategies to minimize capture stress and mortality



· Advantages and disadvantages of the various commercially available darting systems including Pneu-dart, Telinject, Daninject, Palmer, Paxarms, and Distinject. Choosing the system to best fit your needs--Maximizing the utility of the projector you already have.



· Sighting Techniques in dart projectors to ensure accurate, atraumatic dart delivery



· Techniques and modifications which are necessary to have field accuracy and consistent results with currently manufactured darting systems and radiotracking devices.



· Dosage calculation



· How to re-dose animals incompletely immobilized on approach



· Superconcentrated drugs: Where to obtain and how to use them to give you a faster knockdown, and allow you to use smaller, less traumatic darts



· Post Immobilization Care of White-tailed Deer, Elk, and Non-native Deer: Species specific tips on proper body and head positioning to prevent aspiration, dart removal techniques to minimize tissue trauma and decrease the chance of a dart wound abscess



· Medical Monitoring: Assessment techniques to ensure the immobilized animal stays physiologically stable throughout the procedure



· Medical Emergencies associated with capture and handling: How to prevent, recognize, and treat bloat, capture myopathy, shock, hyperthermia, hypothermia, seizures, and other complications which can be avoided and managed in association with immobilization



· Immune suppression associated with capture and translocation



· When not to capture: The time of the year when Cervids are most susceptible to capture related mortality (and it's not rutting season)



· Accidental human exposure to immobilizing medications: Which drugs are dangerous to humans? What can you expect with accidental human exposure? Standard Operating Procedures to prevent human exposure to immobilizing drugs. How to coordinate with your physician and local poison control to develop protocols should an accidental exposure occur.



Whether you have experience or you are just starting out with chemical immobilization, this is a "not to be missed" workshop for anyone working with Deer and Elk! People with 20 years of darting experience have attended this program and left saying "I wish I had taken this course 20 years ago."



This is a completely revised and updated program. The all new 175-page training manual: "Chemical Immobilization of Animals: Technical Field Notes 2009" will be distributed to all course participants, and certificates are awarded to those satisfactorily completing the program.



Use this link to access Detailed Presentation Outlines: http://www.safecapture.com/New/deer&elk.html







Instructor information, printable registration forms and electronic registration are available on our website: www.safecapture.com Brochures containing all workshop details and registration materials are also available by telephone (608-767-3071) or e-mail ([email protected]) request.





Our program has been presented since 1989, and is considered by US government agencies to be the standard in Chemical Immobilization training. We have provided training to well over 7,000 professionals in the US, Europe, Asia, Africa, and Canada including the Alaska Dept. of Fish and Game, Louisiana Dept. of Wildlife and Fisheries, Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, Maine Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission, Wisconsin Dept. of Natural Resources, New Jersey Fish and Wildlife, Virginia Dept. of Game and Inland Fisheries, Texas Parks and Wildlife, New York Division of Fish, Wildlife and Marine Resources, Great Smoky Mountains National Park, US Fish and Wildlife Service-Alaska, USDA Wildlife Services, Beijing Biodiversity Center, Mountain Gorilla Veterinary Project, Alaska Sealife Center, Animal Rescue League of Boston, New York ASPCA, Virginia Animal Control Association, Rappahannock Regional Criminal Justice Academy, Essex County College Police Academy, Greater Orlando Aviation Authority, Beardsley Zoo, Audubon Park Zoo, Folsom City Zoo, Dallas World Aquarium, M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, Merck and Co., and a multitude of others.



We provide evaluation questionnaires to course participants asking for ratings of Excellent, Good, Satisfactory or Disappointing. Over 90% of participants have rated our program excellent! The University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point College of Natural Resources, Utah State University, and Oregon State University have granted our program 1 academic credit.



Our instructors are Wildlife Veterinarians specializing in remote anesthesia. They are friendly, experienced, internationally recognized experts, who are easy to talk to, welcome questions, and have the answers you need. This is the most complete, up to date training program available on Chemical Immobilization, presented in an easy to understand manner, applicable to all experience levels.



Cost for this workshop is $625 for early registration and $675 for general registration. Those who have attended the workshop previously may attend again as a refresher for $375.



Chemical Immobilization has been well researched and accurately defined. If you have ever lost even 1 animal during an immobilization procedure, this workshop would have already paid for itself.



For more information visit our website at www.safecapture.com or contact us at:



Safe-Capture International, Inc., PO Box 206, Mount Horeb, Wisconsin 53572, Tel: 608-767-3071, FAX: 608-767-3072, E-Mail: [email protected]



*************************************************************