Article: "How to Grow Less Antler!" Need input

RyanM84906091393696159



If I were you I would try to grow big typicals like this guy!




Ryan, When you grow another buck like Banjo.............We will ALL be in line for some of that! LOL


 


I have to agree with Jerrilee, Big Typicals is where we started and is still our focus! I already have my A/I set...............


Peacock Jr.


Banshee


Thunder


Pea Wee


Big n Bad


Lil Larry


Hugo 


Max Factor 


Double Wide


Road Rage ......and ....................Oh yeah and some more Rawhide!  No "HYPE" ........just PROVEN WINNERS................That ill pay for some chicken dinner! LOL

Wayne, Jerrilee sold Howard Millers shooters this year out of Hugo for him.  And out of all the bucks we sold this year for other guys Hugo sons were the most impressive.  And as for Banjo...It goes to show you that high dollar pedigrees dont always produce the biggest and prettiest.  Joni Beechy is the guy who started the foundation for Banjo. Grand dam is Green 16 and Banjos father Thunder Cloud and both of them come off of Joni's farm.  Wayne you have a dandy line up for the future, we will be crossing Road Rage to our Banjo daughters in the near future should be interesting!!!

I don't see any of the preserve owners who also raise there own deer, down breeding. They still make a bunch more money selling a 250-400 inch buck as opposed to a 150. I'm sure they would rather grow the bigger ones and make the best profit on there own deer and buy the smaller ones for the same price as it takes to produce one. No work, same money invested, no brainer. I really don't think there is more "demand" for the smaller bucks, it's just the size few people raise because there isn't as much profit in them. I would also rather take the risk of loosing a 150 that I bought to loosing a 250 to fighting and everything else that goes with putting new deer in a preserve. Allot of people who hunt preserves do because they can produce what the wild outfitters can't 200-400 inch bucks. I think it's BS that more people would rather shoot a clean 180 rather then the same  framed 250 with extras. It's just there are less people that can afford them. If they were both standing together for the same price, the bigger one would hit the dirt 99% of the time. Most hunters who hunt wild deer try for the biggest buck not the cleanest prettiest typical. I've been outfitting for 15 years and If I have a buck with any kind of non-typical growth, it's the one everyone wants a shot at, double brows, drops and kickers. I just watched Realtree Outdoors yesterday and David Blanton was on 2 huge muley bucks that were bedded together, one was a more typical wide buck and the other was narrow heavy and had a bunch of non-typical trash, he chose the non-typical and missed with buck fever. The following day he ended up finding the wider one and shot it, 195, 30 wide.

What does Banjo gross anyways??? He is without a doubt one of most impressive framed bucks out there. How old is his antlers on that mount? 

Banjo was 289 at 2 and those are his 2yr old replicas

What is his pedigree?

This is Banjos pedigree the sire of Banjo can be argued but that's what happens when you have buck fawns in with doe fawns some people say he is a Thundercloud son but nobody truly knows yes people see buck fawns see jump doe fawns but nobody knows who bred her... I got my pedigree from Gene Flees he owns some Banjo offspring, Clearview Whitetails will have some offspring and North East Whitetails owns some. We own a buck and doe fawn out of Banjo.

Banjos father was a Thunder Cloud son. My info for Banjo's pedigree comes directly from our good fried and the breeder of Banjo Butch Caylor.  Banjo was Dna'd  and all the buck fawns that were from the AI program was DNA'd, and that included Flees 419.  And none of them DNA'd back to Banjo.  The only bucks that were not DNA'd come from Butch's live breedings and Thunder Cloud was the only buck used.  I think if anybody should know his pedigree it would be the breeder.

Thunder cloud was Thunder/ scooter-patrick doe.


The buck in my avatar was out of a thunder cloud doe so the frame is there in that line.


We also had a beautiful 6x6 yearling out of our other Thunder Cloud doe but must have injured his growth plate in face and has an undershot jaw and just didn't grow like the others.  We consider these two Thunder Cloud does to likely be our best does on the farm.  One got bred to banjo and the other to Road Rage.  they are getting up there in age and may be the last time we AI them. 


 


Jonathon Bell at Hurricane Creek has 2 huge Banjo Sons and likely the BEST bred banjo daughter alive.


 


The probem with this industry there is no accountability in pedigrees even when an animal is DNA'd.  How do you know you are getting what you pay for. How many people re-DNA the animal after they pick them up????  The pedigree is as honest as the person you are buying from.  I have seen lots in sales that absolutely cannot be possible.  They are made up. Then when you do your homework you find out IT IS  made up.    Makes you not want to buy anything from a sale.  Thousands were made believing that BJ and Bucky were full brothers for years. How do you know horns that are presented are truely what was on the deers head without seeing it yourself??????? It basically boils down to the honesty of the person presenting them.  

Clearview,


That is also what Butch told me about Banjo. That his sire was a thunder son, Butch should be proud for growing a great buck


This is proof, that you do not need high price genetics  or the  next fad sire to  produce

the point is a pedigree should not be arbitrarily attached to an animal for the purpose of sale because the truth will likely come out in the long run.

Very well said jerrilee cave!!!

If someone around here shoots a big free range non-typical,there are immediately whispers it was shot in a preserve. It is my opinion that is why hunters are wanting more bucks in the 130 to 180" range.Hunting is a primal instinct to provide food for our families while the antler part is more ego driven.Who wants to bring an unbelievable buck back home from the preserve in the back of the truck or hang on the wall only to get wind of hunting buddies and hunting piers jealous whispers that sometimes don't feel to good to the old ego.Who would keep going there and spending money only to get grief from a hunting pier.I believe in the future the preserve client will seek out the outfitter which provides them a chance at an animal that gets positive reaction from their buddies.If you were to go your local check station on opening day of gun season and record how many of the bucks have single brows, all online and correctly spaced G-tines(BC)or T-tines(SCI),I think you'll find over 90% of them do.Long term I believe there is a limited market for uniqueness in the preserves.Genetics that most favor the look of the wild buck I believe are the future money makers. This just my opinion and it is reflected by my breeding stock and breeding program.The preserve is our terminal market and we better be providing a product to keep the hunters coming or we are all going to be in trouble.Boosting higher fiber in feed,pasture,and browse may help clean up horns a bit without causing to many health problems.I have a little bias but one might also in the future try breeding their mama's to Thunderstorm !!Again only my opinion our preserve is out of order right now because of our DNR's amminstrative ruling but we hope to be operating again soon.

I look at pictures of bucks shot in preserves and I notice several things


 


loss of beam length


loss of tine length


loss of symmetry


loss of in-line tines


 


my opinion all of these things have come about because of breeding primarily for inches and not for the above attributes. 


I look at those bucks and wonder why anyone would even want to shoot them. 


The ranch owner we sold our bucks to this last fall wanted good framed typicals with some extras and paid good money for them because that's what was selling.  Once they got past about 30 inches of extra then he said he had a hard time paying by the inch because he couldn't sell those extra inches.


I agree with Jonathon about thunderstorm and like what our thunder granddaughters are doing for us.  Will be breeding a handful to thunderstorm this fall.