Delima on what to do, Live or let die?

I had an outbreak of closstridium in 7 fawns over a 2 week period (June 1st-June 11th). All the fawns responded well to the C/D Antitoxin and Penicillin, and all are big and healthy now, except one. He has been on and off 4 four weeks now. He gets real good then takes a step backwards. Each time I give C/D Antitoxin, penicillin, get him off the feed and milk, give him electrolytes only and he recovers real well. Then in about 10 days he starts the symptoms all over again. About 10 days ago he broke his back leg below the hock and above the joint. The vet put a Schroeder walking splint on him (I don't know how to explain it but it looks like a fake leg made of real light aircraft aluminum, loops around his hip and takes all the pressure off the leg) and he seems to be doing fine with the leg.

My question is can I just give him electrolytes and water and let him eat grain and just wean him of the milk? Will he be alright. I think he will or will this just cause him to get weak and start to deteriorate more? I am at the end with what to do, and time is not on his side. I am running out of time, and patients. I know this sounds bad but, I am not going to keep putting him through the process anymore. He has had about 200cc of C/D Antitoxin, 60cc of Penicillin, and numerous other concoctions along with about 100 needle sticks. As you can imagine he and I are worn out with this whole situation.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. I know that is a very open ended question. I am not looking for merely suggestions, but if someone has weaned a fawn with these symptoms before or had this happen before, I would like to hear your thoughts and what happened in your case. The fawn will be 8 weeks old on the 12th of July. He is the only Shadow fawn buck fawn I have and he is out of my best doe.

Shadow/High Roller/Bucky/PA Geronimo. Now you know how hard this one is to let go! He probably won't ever be the buck he could have been but I would still like to see what might have been.

Thanks

Eric

Eric, i have had a couple that i have raised as their mother died when they were 6 weeks old. We tried with the bottle and milk but had no luck. I got them eating calf mana and they grew off really well on it... It did take a while for the conversion between the two.. What does he do when he goes back down hill? scours or just quit eating ?

None of my fawns have ever had the scours with clostridium. He just quits eating, refuses the bottle and starts to get weak. I can tube him with electrolytes for a 24 hour period and he will start to take watered down milk again. Seems good for a few days to a week and then right back where we started from again. I don't know what else to do but I do know that I can not continue to do this because soon he is going to have to go to the big pen and I will not be able to continue to do what I am doing when he gets out there. Reasoning behind weaning him now and see what happens, whether he will be able to make it on his own or am I just fighting an up hill battle?

Eric i had a fawn like that last year and I did exactly what you are suggesting......I would get him off the milk and get him weaned as quickly as possible.......I know it seems soon but I also know what you mean about fighting an up hill battle.........my fawn actually did fine once he was off the milk.........he is a little behind this year..... his yearling year but is growing and catching up fast.... think he will be right were he needs to be come this next Spring!! I also used rice bran with the calf mana and it help pu the weight on the fawn.....just a suggestion......I know what your going through Eric and it is not fun.......i am sure you are counting the days for when the bottle feeding is over!!! Good Luck!! I hope it all works out for you!!! I think sometimes a big belly full of milk helps that darn clostridium multiply in a fawn with low imune system..........good luck!!

I have had fawns wean themselves at 7 and 8 weeks and do just fine. I think it just depends on the individual fawn. With his history, I would probably get him off milk as fast as possible.

Eric,

This is going to sound a little different, but you have tried numerous other things, but try feeding or tubing colostrum for a few days. It has been used during some other gut infections and helps coat the gut and promote healing. I would use the real stuff, either goat or cattle, while coating the gut, it allows the gut time to heal. Worth a try. Remember, never thaw colostrum in microwave.



Ray

Eric, you did well to get 6 of the 7 to pull through like you have. Keep that in mind that you have already done a great job.

It is hard to have issues like these with any fawn regardless of the pedigree or value. I think you have done about all you can do. I would say wean him off the milk and see what happens.



We also have been having bad luck or something here this summer. To date we have lost 3 buck fawns all on the mothers.

First one had yellow crap and Laurie treated him for it and he was doing great. Then one day he was dead. Scratch one Shadow/Maxbo/Butkus/Magnum/Louie.



Second one of them appears to have been from hitting the fence for some stupid reason. I can only figure he was playing and hit the fence. Scratch the only Updraft buck fawn we had.



Third one I found yesterday laying dead in the pen. Absolutely no idea why he died. Scratch one Matrix/Tonto/PA Geronimo buck fawn.



I can tell you the weather we have had is hard on these deer. 85% to 95% humidity EVERYDAY for weeks with temps in the 80's and 90's and then drop down to low 60's at night. A friend of mine has lost a fawn as well. The vet said the lungs were full of green slime. I wonder why!!!

I know most people don't talk about the bad times they have. They try and hide that kind of thing because it "might be bad for business." I don't play those games and will say it's been a hard summer so far. And I bet Eric that you and I aren't the only ones having issues this year.

Hang in there bud!

Eric,

If it were me.... I would see if another farmer could spend more time with it or if you can make room to keep it there... see if a responsible teen or vet tech in the area would spend the time with him and partner up on him give a fawn out of him ...Something...

Cause you might not have him if not, but I can only imagine the extra time is hard for you.I had a Maxbo granddaughter wean herself Very early last year But she was HUGE and Very healthy. She would only come take two drinks then go play while everyone else chugged ...Well of course I was a nervous wreck But she is GREAT and still Huge.

Best Of Luck

I hope all turns out well for you, It sounds like you are trying Very hard!!! Sometimes trying is all we can do. As we all know, You can't save them all.



PS...When I say early my, other fawns were on Two or Three full bottles a day...She would come up one time a day, drink Two swigs then go on her way.

I feel your pain Eric. I agree with Ray, I would feed (or tube if you have to) some good quality goat colostrum in him for 3 or 4 days. I actually have some left this year and can try to over-nite it to you if you would like. Just say the word. I pull all my fawns early and feed them all goat colostrum until they are 24 hours old and am thoroughly convinced that that is why I have so few problems. In fact, we had a doe have triplet bucks and I wasn't sure she was caring for them as well as she should have been. I took colostrum out there and was able to catch 2 of the 3. Those 2 lived and the biggest one that did not get the colostrum didn't. There is some documented proof that although the intestines are past the point of absorbing most of the important antibodies that colostrum provides after 24 hours, they still absorb some and it may be just enough to get your fawn over the hump. I would lay off all the meds, give him some good probiotics (Target Fawn Paste), feed colostrum for 3-4 days and encourage solids as much as possible. I would just hate for you to have all this time in him and not be able to pull him through it.



Question- If he is not scouring, why hold milk and feed electrolytes? During your regimen, have you tried to keep him on milk and feed just to see if it would keep his strength up enough to stay on track? Are you feeding goat milk?



I can ship some colostrum out tomorrow morning over-nite if you need me to!

Holly

Thanks for the offer. I have goat collostrum here from Heartland dairy. I am trying it now. Several folks have called and told me the same as you just posted, thanks for the the advice and concern. I feel he had closstridium really bad and it caused a big ulcer in his stomach. The reason for taking him off the milk was to calm his stomach. But now I think he knows the milk just flares the ulcer back up and that is why he refuses the milk when you try to feed it to him. He will suck just a little milk and then it is like he says wow, that is the bad stuff. I can bottle feed him pedialyte and he will drink all day long. He is 9 weeks old this Wednesday, so I think he should be able to eat plenty of solids and make it with the pedialyte if the collostrum doesn't work.

I will keep you posted.

Holly, call me if you get a chance, I need to talk to you.

Thanks

Eric