Federal rules

Can anyone give me the benefits of being regulated by the Federal Government? If we have the opportunity to scrap the federal rules why do we keep them? Why do we want to be in business with someone trying to regulate us out of business? If they don't then why do we spend two years offering comments and the rules are still too costly to cervid owners? I don't know about the rest of you but i don't think it is smart to sign on to rules that we no longer have to just for a few years down the road public comments lead to revisions on the rules.. These public comments will be from powerful organizations such as QDMA, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and other wildlife agencies that would love nothing more than to put us out of business! They will be much more powerful at the federal level.



Ronald Reagan once said the nine most terrifying words in the english language are " I'm from the government and I'm here to help"

When CWD first hit states were each making their own rules and they were all over the place. Some state's first reaction was to shut everything down, which unfortunately is still happening today. At the time, ten years ago, it was hoped that a federal rule would provide some consistency and make it easy for states to simply adopt the federal rule, rather than coming up with some crazy rules themselves. Well since it has taken so long, most states have come up with their own rules already and most were fairly consistent. The 5 years monitored for example is pretty consistent for movement. So the federal rule is too late and now is throwing in additional requirements that no state had previously, or apparently needed - like now testing deer 12 months of age vs the previous 18 months. Never expect government to solve or help a problem, all they do is complicate it.

kurthumphrey said:

Can anyone give me the benefits of being regulated by the Federal Government? If we have the opportunity to scrap the federal rules why do we keep them? Why do we want to be in business with someone trying to regulate us out of business? If they don't then why do we spend two years offering comments and the rules are still too costly to cervid owners? I don't know about the rest of you but i don't think it is smart to sign on to rules that we no longer have to just for a few years down the road public comments lead to revisions on the rules.. These public comments will be from powerful organizations such as QDMA, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and other wildlife agencies that would love nothing more than to put us out of business! They will be much more powerful at the federal level.



Ronald Reagan once said the nine most terrifying words in the english language are " I'm from the government and I'm here to help"

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If we dont have some kind of regulations and testing of some kind then when all this bullsh!t that comes down the pipe that is blamed on deer farmer could never be proven otherwise. You either have the same testing of ALL deer. wild and penned or you have no testing at all of any deer, Wild or penned. With no regulations at all the deer business would implode. There are people in every business that would do some crazy stuff for self gain!

Four Seasons Whitetails said:

If we dont have some kind of regulations and testing of some kind then when all this bullsh!t that comes down the pipe that is blamed on deer farmer could never be proven otherwise. You either have the same testing of ALL deer. wild and penned or you have no testing at all of any deer, Wild or penned. With no regulations at all the deer business would implode. There are people in every business that would do some crazy stuff for self gain!

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And you think the answer to that is involving the government ? You think the government is going to stop people from businesses doing things for self gain? LOL This kinda thinking is the reason the country is in the shape it is in today. Give me one business the government has been successful in? What stops your state from dropping out of the federal rules and doing what they want to do anyway? Does it stop them from closing your border ? It's a false sense of security I can assure you . No industry in its right mind would let their enemies (QDMA, and all the other wildlife agencies that that hate us) sit at the same table (USDA) and help determin our livelyhood!!!!

kurthumphrey said:

And you think the answer to that is involving the government ? You think the government is going to stop people from businesses doing things for self gain? LOL This kinda thinking is the reason the country is in the shape it is in today. Give me one business the government has been successful in? What stops your state from dropping out of the federal rules and doing what they want to do anyway? Does it stop them from closing your border ? It's a false sense of security I can assure you . No industry in its right mind would let their enemies (QDMA, and all the other wildlife agencies that that hate us) sit at the same table (USDA) and help determin our livelyhood!!!!

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Thats not the point i was saying..I dont care about the Govt being involved but we do need rules to as point. Ny has even implemented new regulations on cattle coming into the state and there are tagging requirements on them.



Do i agree with the way it is..No Do i believe there has to be some kind of records and testing..Yes Maybe when all borders are shut down and you do business only in your own state you will be happy. Your deer,Your state,Your laws!

The sad thing about the Federal Rules is that the Patty Kline let the wildlife agencies hijack the process. I asked her twice at NADEFA how the wildlife agencies were going to comply with these rules. Her statement was " they were exempt", they didn't have to comply. How do you plan on controlling a disease, when the largest farmer of cervids in the country, who controls 99% of the animals, is exempted from testing or moving requirements that we have to live by. Yet these same agencies sit with us, having equal representation as industry, in the rule process. Making rules to restrict us that they don't have to comply with. Look at Wind Cave elk movement !!!

G O Whitetails said:

The sad thing about the Federal Rules is that the Patty Kline let the wildlife agencies hijack the process. I asked her twice at NADEFA how the wildlife agencies were going to comply with these rules. Her statement was " they were exempt", they didn't have to comply. How do you plan on controlling a disease, when the largest farmer of cervids in the country, who controls 99% of the animals, is exempted from testing or moving requirements that we have to live by. Yet these same agencies sit with us, having equal representation as industry, in the rule process. Making rules to restrict us that they don't have to comply with. Look at Wind Cave elk movement !!!

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Bingo!!! And this is what will be brought up in our little pow wow today. This is what NADEFA,ACA,PBR,EWU,JFK or anything else they want to drum up needs to be shown to lawyers,courts and the public.

Here in SD we have done away with ALL testing on slaughter and hunt animals in preserves if we choose. We still test everything the same for anyone with breeding animals they may want to send to another state and stay accredited and certified. It has gotten to the point here where our state vet says its basically OUR industry and we should regulate the rules the way we think will benefit us, we have shown that we have clean herds that have been monitored since the beginning and haven't had a CWD positive in over 10 years. There isn't a lot of deer breeders here, 4 that I'm aware of, maybe a couple dozen elk breeders. These organizations that are always opposing the

Cervid industry are also the same ones that oppose most commercial hunting in general, most aren't vocal about there view but some show it more like the state and national wildlife federation. They basically run our legislature here with 2 full time lobbyists right along with our DNR (non-landowners)in the capital fighting anything that favors commercial hunting or landowners. To me they are the democrats of the hunting world, they want all the good hunting and access to our private land but want us and everyone else to pay for it so they can just show up opening day for nothing other then the fact that they are a resident and the wildlife belongs to the people of the state. Just about all of the public walk in areas are funded by non-resident license sales. If wildlife didn't have a value, nobody would take out productive land and put it into habitat. SD has had over 10 million pheasansts most years in the past because they have a value. Now days corn and beans is a better value, pheasant numbers WILL go down as the habitat gets broke up and planted to corn and beans instead of grass and nesting cover. Anyone can have a farm with a bunch of wildlife, all you have to do is go to the bank, borrow a couple million, thats just to get ya started, work your *** off 7 days a week, stay up all night worrying when it doesn't rain enough to make a crop so you can make your payments. Its simple, any dummy should be able to do it.

I will guarantee you, if you have a preserve full of too many big bucks and you offered free hunts to these same people, they'd all show up and you'd be there new best friend.

sdbigbucks,, It sounds like "socialized" hunting to me !! We have the same problem next door in Minnesota. I agree with you. Good luck.

GAry

someone on the ACA correct me if I am wrong. AS I understand it scrapping these program standards does not mean that there would be no rules and regulations by the government. It means that the ones that were already in place are the ones that would be the rule.





Jerrilee Cave,DVM

Clearview Whitetails said:

someone on the ACA correct me if I am wrong. AS I understand it scrapping these program standards does not mean that there would be no rules and regulations by the government. It means that the ones that were already in place are the ones that would be the rule.





Jerrilee Cave,DVM

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Untill your state adds whatever rules they want for your state!

. Sorry!

You will operate under your existing state law without a federal program. Your state can make harsher rules, even with federal program in place.

Some have a false sense is security that this protects us from our states. There is another big thing that these rules do. Right now we have a case or somewhat of a platform to stand on with the discrimination between livestock organizations and not being compensated for the deer they will kill if a positive or trace back should occur. If we sign on to these federal rules we agree that's its ok for them to do all the above!!! We have no chance of fighting back and will all be out of business. If you like raising deer everyone should read the federal rules and think about this hard before you favor it. Forget who is trying to lead you one direction or another. Read them and think of what it opens this industry up to. If its found can you pay for the control of the disease? Can you build a second fence or feed your deer for five years just for them to decide to kill them after your quarantine? What if they decide give feet of top soil should be removed ? Who can afford any of this ?

These are the very same reasons we need to stand TOGETHER and fight this discrimination against our industry in a court of law !! I really think we have grounds here for a lawsuit and I've felt that way for years !! I have raised registered holstiens , shipped cattle and embryo's all over the world , but never were those cattle tested and tested until they couldn't take it much more . Never had I had to have dead or slaughtered animals tested , never did I need a fence inspection , never did I need my cattle certified for any thing . Cattle come to Wi from all over the world for the Dairy Expo in Madison , are they whole herd tested for movement ? Our DNR moves elk from other states to Wi with no CWD testing what so ever ! How can we not see a case of discrimination here , are we that blind ? Are we so content that auctions like the Top 30 bring in large amounts of money that we don't want to rock the boat or what is it we as cervid farmers are affraid of . Are we content to just let this business go down the drain , for the money some make for the moment with no plans for the future ? What is it ? Why do we seem to do very little to fight for ourselves and our animals ? Baffles me thats for sure !!

kurthumphrey said:

Some have a false sense is security that this protects us from our states. There is another big thing that these rules do. Right now we have a case or somewhat of a platform to stand on with the discrimination between livestock organizations and not being compensated for the deer they will kill if a positive or trace back should occur. If we sign on to these federal rules we agree that's its ok for them to do all the above!!! We have no chance of fighting back and will all be out of business. If you like raising deer everyone should read the federal rules and think about this hard before you favor it. Forget who is trying to lead you one direction or another. Read them and think of what it opens this industry up to. If its found can you pay for the control of the disease? Can you build a second fence or feed your deer for five years just for them to decide to kill them after your quarantine? What if they decide give feet of top soil should be removed ? Who can afford any of this ?

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Thats where i was going all along. The federal rule did not bother Ny to much because we were stuck doing those rules from day one. Your state can make a federal rule look like a cake walk and if certin things backfire here in the near future you are all going to see just that. You have to work with them to a point or they will just shut you down. Which they can at any time. Kinda like gettin fired at your job. He wants ya gone...You will be gone. Thats where working with your state comes into play. Stupid rules like testing harvest animals and 2 for 1 crap has to go. They can say you had a positive even if you dont. How many keep a sample with your vet untill your state test comes back? They will stop killing your deer so they dont have to worry about any payment..They will just make you put another fence up and then never let you move animals. Think they cant do it? Come to Ny!

Your spot on Wooden Acres.....I couldn't agree more....we need to take this to court!

The Federal and State Agencies have and will do what ever they want to the Deer Farmers in EVERY state till EVERY DEER FARMER in EVERY STATE..........STOPS ROLLING OVER FOR EVERY PIECE OF ******** LEGISLATION THEY CRAM DOWN OUR THROATS!



Somebody tell me when that will happen?????? WE HAVE LAID DOWN FOR 10 years waiting on the Federal Rules on CWD would save us from ourselves and our States!



What a JOKE that's been!

I think every deer farming state that has any holding back of permits or anything else that stops you from doing business should file papers all at the same time and start a lawsuit all at the same time!!! The federal rule means nothing if your state puts more and stronger regulations on you than the federal rule does!

Mike that is exactly right. The Federal Regulations are the Minimum for interstate movement. After each state reviews the Regulations then they will decide on what "THEIR" States Regulations will be. They seem to always make changes that sets their State Regulations apart from the other 49. Especially here in Michigan where the DNR is involved in our cervid livestock farming. Why these wildlife Agencies continue to be involved in the farming of livstock is beyond me. Even today we have to schedule a DNR officer to meet us at the border to inspect our healthy and tested animals prior to bringing them home. I told a local friend & cattle farmer/broker about our testing requirements and he could not believe it. And he hauls livestock coast to coast. Our borders were closed here importation of animals for 10 yrs. It was hard and still is but it is not the end for you Mike. Here's one for you...in 2007 we had a CWD case in Kent County. In 2011 Michigan had over 53,000 Deer Vehicle Collisions. Guess what County topped the list? Yep Kent County with 1,705 reported DVC's. The numbers just don't support the claims!! I don't think CWD would even make the top five list of things that kill deer. But Deer do account for an average of 200 Traffic Fatalities annually. In my Opinion it's time to scrap the Federal Regulations and come back with something that is acceptable and justfied for our industry. If anyone else feels that way let our board members and Shawn Schafer know this! Via Phone,Text.Email..........As they need to know how we feel as a whole so they are better able to represent us. Shannon Thiex I agree with you 100% all of US need to get TOGETHER. I don't care if it's NADeFA,NABEA,EWO,CLF,ACA,UAW, Teamsters, IOC, NFL,NHL,MLB,NBA,NCAA, MMA.UFC,U.N. and even NASCAR, (Tony Stewart is ready to fight) Anyone that wants to help US.

Without any rule or testing no one would be able to move any animals, not In today's world. Like I said, initially 10 years ago it was thought a federal rule would bring consistency and make things easier. Now it is just muddying the waters.