High Risk or Low Risk?

Four Seasons Whitetails · Mar 27, 2013

Let me ask you this. If a state takes all the UNTESTED road kill deer in a state and puts them in compost piles in different area all across the state. Then when composted down they spread it along the shoulders of the highways as mulch! Would this be high risk or low risk?

ddwhitetails · Mar 27, 2013

I would say High risk for sure.........man if that's going on in your State Mike ...you certainly have something to hold over their heads....

Four Seasons Whitetails · Mar 28, 2013

ddwhitetails said:
I would say High risk for sure.........man if that's going on in your State Mike ...you certainly have something to hold over their heads....

No Sir.... Low risk as far as they are concerned. Cant do business with any states because of them doing trace backs back to 2006 because of pa cwd. Trust me your state can make rules that make the federal rule look like a good time.

ddwhitetails · Mar 28, 2013

Mike I am not following you here......is What your explaining going on in PA Or in NY....either way spreading dead (untested) composted road kill deer along the sides of highways (if I read your post right) is a high risk no matter what State it is happening in......like I said....... if I read your post right....not sure that I did.....

.....what are you talking about PA making rules that make the Federal Rules look like a good time?

G O Whitetails · Mar 28, 2013

The pathogenic prion protein readily attaches to soil particle surfaces, and the interaction between PrPTSE and some clay mineral surfaces is particularly avid. Prions exhibit limited mobility in soil columns, suggesting that in the absence of preferential flow paths or facilitated transport, TSE agents released into soil would remain near the soil surface where they are more accessible to grazing animals. Particle-associated PrPTSE molecules may migrate from locations of deposition via transport processes affecting soil particles, including entrainment in and movement with air and overland flow. The mechanisms of PrPTSE attachment to soil particle surfaces remain to be elucidated. The extent of PrPTSE interaction with natural organic matter and the influence of N-linked glycosylation and glypiation on PrPTSE attachment to soil particle surfaces warrant research. Soil and mineral particle-bound prions exhibit increased disease transmission by the oral route relative to that of the unbound agent. Enhanced disease transmission by particle-bound PrPTSE may result from altered bioavailability of soil-bound prions by animals, changes in PrPTSE conformation or aggregation state that impact TSE infectivity, or both. Research is needed to elucidate these mechanisms and evaluate the extent to which soil impacts oral TSE transmission in ruminants.

Several reports have shown that prions can persist in soil for several years. Significant interest remains in developing methods that could be applied to degrade PrPTSE in naturally contaminated soils. Preliminary research suggests that serine proteases and the microbial consortia in stimulated soils and compost may partially degrade PrPTSE. Transition metal oxides in soil (viz. manganese oxide) may also mediate prion inactivation. Overall, the effect of prion attachment to soil particles on its persistence in the environment is not well understood, and additional study is needed to determine its implications on the environmental transmission of scrapie and CWD.

Found this in an article, hopes it helps you.

If this is going on in your state, I would be concerned. Why do they quarantine farms for 5 years, if they feel there is no soil transfer??? They told us that the only place they could destroy prions, was in the digester they had in Ames, Iowa.

Whitetail Sanctuary · Mar 28, 2013

G O Whitetails said:
The pathogenic prion protein readily attaches to soil particle surfaces, and the interaction between PrPTSE and some clay mineral surfaces is particularly avid. Prions exhibit limited mobility in soil columns, suggesting that in the absence of preferential flow paths or facilitated transport, TSE agents released into soil would remain near the soil surface where they are more accessible to grazing animals. Particle-associated PrPTSE molecules may migrate from locations of deposition via transport processes affecting soil particles, including entrainment in and movement with air and overland flow. The mechanisms of PrPTSE attachment to soil particle surfaces remain to be elucidated. The extent of PrPTSE interaction with natural organic matter and the influence of N-linked glycosylation and glypiation on PrPTSE attachment to soil particle surfaces warrant research. Soil and mineral particle-bound prions exhibit increased disease transmission by the oral route relative to that of the unbound agent. Enhanced disease transmission by particle-bound PrPTSE may result from altered bioavailability of soil-bound prions by animals, changes in PrPTSE conformation or aggregation state that impact TSE infectivity, or both. Research is needed to elucidate these mechanisms and evaluate the extent to which soil impacts oral TSE transmission in ruminants.

Several reports have shown that prions can persist in soil for several years. Significant interest remains in developing methods that could be applied to degrade PrPTSE in naturally contaminated soils. Preliminary research suggests that serine proteases and the microbial consortia in stimulated soils and compost may partially degrade PrPTSE. Transition metal oxides in soil (viz. manganese oxide) may also mediate prion inactivation. Overall, the effect of prion attachment to soil particles on its persistence in the environment is not well understood, and additional study is needed to determine its implications on the environmental transmission of scrapie and CWD.

Found this in an article, hopes it helps you.

If this is going on in your state, I would be concerned. Why do they quarantine farms for 5 years, if they feel there is no soil transfer??? They told us that the only place they could destroy prions, was in the digester they had in Ames, Iowa.

Gary, I wonder what happens to the contents of that digester over time ?

I wonder if it's ever been checked before it goes to a landfill?

Four Seasons Whitetails · Mar 28, 2013

ddwhitetails said:
Mike I am not following you here......is What your explaining going on in PA Or in NY....either way spreading dead (untested) composted road kill deer along the sides of highways (if I read your post right) is a high risk no matter what State it is happening in......like I said....... if I read your post right....not sure that I did..........what are you talking about PA making rules that make the Federal Rules look like a good time?

Den, What i mean is that they are spreading this stuff on the Ny highways untested and they call it low risk. BUT they have us locked down with no deer movement coming into the state or even Ny to Ny farms because of the cwd in Pa. They want trace backs all the way back from 2006 from any Pa farms or any farms in any state that has Pa deer. Because that would be HIGH RISK. In other words no movement. They say they dont know how the first case of Pa CWD became to be on the Pa farm so if we have any deer from Pa on our farms( I have 14) and any of the farms i have deer from have done business with any of the 5 farms on lockdown now or if they have done business with any farm that has done business. I am locked down for 5 years. They say they may never know how it came to be so whats that tell ya?

As far as the Federal rule..I meant any state can put any rule on you. That would make the federal rule a cake walk. As you can see.

G O Whitetails · Mar 28, 2013

When our cattle were put down in the early 90's. They were taken to Ames for this reason. There has been a lot of questions asked over the years, where the genetic research material went "pre-digester". I find it interesting that the only time they are worried about contamination, is when they find it on our side of the fence. There was CWD research done on the Univ. farm in Madison, Wisc., but when the outbreak occurred in that area, who did the finger get pointed at? Where did their genetic material go?

I come from the cattle industry, and I am shocked at how double standards are used here in the deer industry. The only reason we have the hard rules we have in the deer industry is because USDA allowed the wildlife industry to hijack the rules process. If the wildlife agencies where removed from the rules process, things would be going a lot different. Why are they in the rules process anyway, then exempting themselves from our requirements????

Again, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but how does USDA plan on controlling a disease, when the largest farmer of deer in the country [wildlife agencies], who controls 99% of the herd, is exempted, from testing rules, transporting rules, disposal rules, etc, etc., of the things we have to comply with???

Going back to the NY situation, if we where spreading our dirt or deer material along the road from our side of the fence, how would the wildlife agencies respond?

wvdeerman · Mar 28, 2013

In the onset of CWD here in West Virginia about 10 years ago, we discovered that the state road was indeed taking roadkills and composting them and using them on roadside flowerebeds.

We had pictures of them doing it and maybe even some statements from workers. However, us deer farmers were still being blamed for cwd and its spreading. To this day we are unsure if they are still practicing the composting of carcasses, but it does bring a high risk atribute to the cwd issue.

Four Seasons Whitetails · Mar 28, 2013

wvdeerman said:
In the onset of CWD here in West Virginia about 10 years ago, we discovered that the state road was indeed taking roadkills and composting them and using them on roadside flowerebeds.

We had pictures of them doing it and maybe even some statements from workers. However, us deer farmers were still being blamed for cwd and its spreading. To this day we are unsure if they are still practicing the composting of carcasses, but it does bring a high risk atribute to the cwd issue.

Oh no Jack!!! We are a CWD positive state..On both sides of the fence. The guy was a taxidermist and a Rehabed for the states fawns when the mom was killed on the road or hay field deer and such. So they dont even know where the Ny case came from let alone Pa's case! They say this practice is low risk but to do business with a Pa farm 7 years ago puts you in a high risk situation today!! Thanks Gary for that tid-bit of info above. That along with many others will be seen in court!

G O Whitetails · Mar 28, 2013

Mike, you HAVE to use the double-standards card in your court case. Remember, the judges and juries are probably city people, not farmers. They are probably fair-minded people. You have to make it look like unreasonable treatment against us, which shouldn't be that hard to do. In Minnesota, when we had our case in the wild, the paper compared it "as toxic as a nuclear waste spill". With your compost data [which is great], have your lawyers ask the DNR why they are spreading nuclear waste all over the country side? Watch their lawyers wiggle on that on. Which way is it nuclear waste, or minimal threat?

Also the Wind Cave Preserve release to the wild is a good example. Google their site, it show pictures of them taking the fence down. Stuff like this is "golden" to a lawyer. BUT, get it in print for your lawyer, he will not want rumors or hear-say. Google can be your best friend. It's easy to find articles on CWD. If you do all this leg-work for the lawyers, It will save you costs. Bring plenty of information along, they will pick and choose what they need.

Four Seasons Whitetails · Mar 28, 2013

G O Whitetails said:
Mike, you HAVE to use the double-standards card in your court case. Remember, the judges and juries are probably city people, not farmers. They are probably fair-minded people. You have to make it look like unreasonable treatment against us, which shouldn't be that hard to do. In Minnesota, when we had our case in the wild, the paper compared it "as toxic as a nuclear waste spill". With your compost data [which is great], have your lawyers ask the DNR why they are spreading nuclear waste all over the country side? Watch their lawyers wiggle on that on. Which way is it nuclear waste, or minimal threat?

Also the Wind Cave Preserve release to the wild is a good example. Google their site, it show pictures of them taking the fence down. Stuff like this is "golden" to a lawyer. BUT, get it in print for your lawyer, he will not want rumors or hear-say. Google can be your best friend. It's easy to find articles on CWD. If you do all this leg-work for the lawyers, It will save you costs. Bring plenty of information along, they will pick and choose what they need.

Thanks Gary and thanks for the emails! Funny we sit in a room of 20 of Ny's best...DEC, Dept Of Ag and a couple guys with bio degrees and the AG and DEC guys say there was no fence and no cwd in wind cave. Had the printed proof..They wanted none of it..and the degree guys say the dead untested animal waste on the highways in a cwd positive state is..Low Risk! This has to go to court and every state needs to do the same. Like i said, After this meeting and the words they said..The federal rule does not sound as bad!!

Whitetail Sanctuary · Mar 28, 2013

Four Seasons Whitetails said:
Thanks Gary and thanks for the emails! Funny we sit in a room of 20 of Ny's best...DEC, Dept Of Ag and a couple guys with bio degrees and the AG and DEC guys say there was no fence and no cwd in wind cave. Had the printed proof..They wanted none of it..and the degree guys say the dead untested animal waste on the highways in a cwd positive state is..Low Risk! This has to go to court and every state needs to do the same. Like i said, After this meeting and the words they said..The federal rule does not sound as bad!!

Hard to argue printed fact...................to an "EXPERT" LOL

High Risk or Low Risk?

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