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I want to use BAM to sedate

Telazol/Rompin.....Is as Good as BAM..............On MY Farm!


 


Just don't change what works for YOUR farm because folks tell you somethings  "BETTER".................Because BAD and GREAT Experiences can had WITH BOTH!
 
I personally, haven't heard a bad story about bam. I talk to about 30 folks a year that use bam. Not saying there isn't any story's buT like whitetail sanctuary said, use what had worked on your farm
 
I darted a buck that weigh about 230 lbs with 2CC of BAM, He went down in 5 minutes we cut antlers and reversed him with 4CC reversal up in 5 minutes. We darted cut antlers and back on his feet in 17 minutes. But here is the kicker we did this at 6:00 AM the same afternoon he look like he was drunk stumbling and walking slow, So I darted him with 2CC of reversal , the next morning he was fine.
 
dtala1006261421260135



I saw a fawn this year that had been sedated with straight Telezol. It took two days for the fawn to die and it was not pretty. 


 


anyone that thinks Rompum/Telezol is as good as BAM, simply put, does not have a clue what they are talking about.


 


Todd has it spot on....




Really...Painting with a pretty big brush !  I have never had a problem when i sedate and i have never used BAM. Darted 200 easy with no problems. Sometimes the issue falls on the doctor and not the medication.
 
Cassie Martinez1006291421275003



I darted a buck that weigh about 230 lbs with 2CC of BAM, He went down in 5 minutes we cut antlers and reversed him with 4CC reversal up in 5 minutes. We darted cut antlers and back on his feet in 17 minutes. But here is the kicker we did this at 6:00 AM the same afternoon he look like he was drunk stumbling and walking slow, So I darted him with 2CC of reversal , the next morning he was fine.




I have heard a few complaints about them not coming out with bam also and i have heard complaints about having to use 2 different drugs to reverse. Not real sure as i have no need to using something that works just fine for me. I dart with the cocktail and reverse as soon as i am doen doing whatever it is i do. No waiting 30-45 minutes. Down.done and up. No problem.
 
I Always Laugh when this Topic gets goin!

5 Shooters.....Feed n Water pulled 24hrs in advance of darting. Started feeding Apples a week in advance of Darting so they will be REALLY interested!

5 shots.....2cc..Coctail mixed 6:1....ALL 5 Down n OUT in 3-5 mins....ALL #250+ Bucks ALL DOWN 3'-6'of each other and NEVER took a step from place started darting from Standing right in the middle of em! Darted first 3 Before the others even noticed last 2 toss few Apple chunks.......Walked right back to me....POP...........Few Apple chunks last one right back to me!

To me the KEY to Darting is KNOW YOUR ANIMALS............If BAM works GREAT for you AWESOME.....But DON'T Blame every POOR result on the PRODUCT!

Operator ERROR is more common than you think!
 
operator error may be prevelant, but that dosen't make Rompum safer than BAM, because it isn't. Talk to any knowledgeable vet about the two and he will tell you BAM is 10X safer. 
 
I used Telazol/Xylazine for years, and it worked "well" for me.  Only lost one animal out of hundreds darted (she aspirated and died, not saying it was drugs fault).  I too was very skeptical of BAM when it first came out.  But there is absolutely NO comparison for how quickly the deer go down and get back up between the two drugs... well, at least on my farm.  Maybe my deer are different somehow, but it was like night and day once I had something to compare my Telazol/Xylazine mixture to. I've darted around 150-170 deer in the past 2 years with BAM, and it continues to amaze me how well it works.  Much less stress on the deer from an "anesthesia" residue standpoint.  I'm not here to promote any one product, but there is definitely a big difference between how quickly the deer recover and go down on BAM vs. Tel/Xyl. 


If I never switched or tried BAM I'm sure I would be saying that what I was using worked great... because it did, until I saw how much better BAM works.  Just my 2 cents for anyone considering another option regarding chemical immobilization. 
 
I've used both, with the BAM 5 minutes down 5 minutes back up ( that one case I talked about was the only one I ever had with Bam)

My vet used Tel/ Xylazine mixed 4 to 1 when we AI'd it took my does forever to get up and still walked around drunk looking for a while.


I was actually concerned about them getting up because I was so used of Bam recovery being so quick
 
I used Tei/xyl for 10 years and it work good for me I did not want to change to bam. One day I went to a friends place and he used bam and his deer went down in five to eight minutes and was up eating after reversal in 4 to 5 minutes. I have been useing bam every since that day and have had just as good of results bam is the best for my farm.
 
       Im with Wayne use what works for you.  I have darted roughly 100 deer with straight xylazine. That being said the only deer I


dart with straight xylazine is really healthy tame does and tame fawns and tame bucks not in rut or even close. I have never had a problem ever the doctor giving the drug is usually the problem if you have a problem you get them running around and stressed or sick ones and your going to lose one.  If I have a wild doe or a sick deer or a buck in rut or ai'ing I use the xylazine/telazol mix. Have darted roughly 75 with it. I did try a couple Bam Kits this year and they went down fairly quick did have a few that took as long to go down as with the x/t mixture. The biggest difference was they were up and acting totally normal in about ten minutes. Can't say that about any of the other drugs. I will still use straight xylazine for my healthy tame does,fawns, and bucks in the summer like I have for 11 years without any problems. I went to a seminar and the vet said don't dart a sick deer with anything but Bam if you want him to survive. I think that was some great advice and I will always have it here for sick deer and wilder deer, and bucks in rut. Its a great product!!!  
 
Cassie Martinez1006521421370324



I've used both, with the BAM 5 minutes down 5 minutes back up ( that one case I talked about was the only one I ever had with Bam)

My vet used Tel/ Xylazine mixed 4 to 1 when we AI'd it took my does forever to get up and still walked around drunk looking for a while.


I was actually concerned about them getting up because I was so used of Bam recovery being so quick




We all know every deer is different but i would guess you guys overdosed that deer. I mean 4 to 1 is a very heavy mixture. I have never went less than 5 to 1 and that is only for one doe that likes to do that walk around with her nose on the ground but wont lay down. All my others have always went down with 6 to 1 with 1cc and 11/4cc tops. Thats where learning the deer and keeping notes come in. Were these does like run to the corner when they see people does?
 
I never had too many problems with xylazine/telezol. It's all about knowing your herd and who to dart and how much to give them. I would have some high strung ones that took more than one dart, but out of hundreds over the last 7-8 years it wasn't that bad. However, I just seen 4 of my bucks go down, and wake up in minutes on BAM. Night and day, the reversals with BAM were comparable to my best reversals on xylazine cocktail every time. If I had not seen it personally, I would have still been reading topics like this and saying to myself, " I am not switching yet, the cocktail is still working just fine". I have no problem with the cocktail, I just can't get over how good the BAM preformed. I am going to make an order soon.

I don't want to encourage anyone to switch if the cocktail is working for them, just saying, if you see it in action your probably going to be impressed, like I was. Maybe not impressed enough to switch, that's your choice. I been looking and asking, It's really not much more $ than the cocktail I use, from what I am seeing. If BAM was outrageously expensive compared to the cocktail, I wouldn't consider the swap, but since it reasonable I am going for it.
 
wthollow1006561421373481



       Im with Wayne use what works for you.  I have darted roughly 100 deer with straight xylazine. That being said the only deer I


dart with straight xylazine is really healthy tame does and tame fawns and tame bucks not in rut or even close. I have never had a problem ever the doctor giving the drug is usually the problem if you have a problem you get them running around and stressed or sick ones and your going to lose one.  If I have a wild doe or a sick deer or a buck in rut or ai'ing I use the xylazine/telazol mix. Have darted roughly 75 with it. I did try a couple Bam Kits this year and they went down fairly quick did have a few that took as long to go down as with the x/t mixture. The biggest difference was they were up and acting totally normal in about ten minutes. Can't say that about any of the other drugs. I will still use straight xylazine for my healthy tame does,fawns, and bucks in the summer like I have for 11 years without any problems. I went to a seminar and the vet said don't dart a sick deer with anything but Bam if you want him to survive. I think that was some great advice and I will always have it here for sick deer and wilder deer, and bucks in rut. Its a great product!!!  




 


You bring up a good point about darting sick deer.  I had a 3 year old breeder buck (over 300lbs) that got into a brutal fight and was all but dead when I found him.  Laying on his side... could barely lift his head a few inches off the ground. I syringed him with 0.2cc of BAM to get him into the building.  He came out in a couple minutes and lived for over 2 weeks.  Unfortunately I lost him due to serious neurological damage. But the fact that I was able to reverse him was pretty amazing.  At least we were able to give him a chance to survive. But as we all know even the best efforts don't turn out how we'd like sometimes.
 
We used telezol/xylazine for many years and were reluctant to change but heard so many good things about Bam we decided to try it this year. We will not go back. We love how the deer are up in a matter of minutes and not groggy or showing any side affects of being darted. That is so important with bucks in hard antler!
 
I'll make one more comparison...


 


I had a buck with urinary tract probs, ended up in surgery for 5+ hours. Vet removed most of his plumbing, *****, and one testicle. Stitched bladder to his belly and cut a hole for him to urinate out of. We were trying to find a way to keep the opening OPEN so he could pee. I darted him with straight Medetomidine(M in BAM) three times in four days. Up and at em right away each time. Prolly sedated him 6-7 times in one month trying new stuff.


 


IF you did that with Telezol/Rompum you'd have a dead deer. If Rompum/Telezol is so good, why will it kill a deer if you resedate with it the next two days??? THe answer is that it is not near as clean, or reversable as BAM. It affects way more receptors than the necessary ones to sedate the deer, whereas BAM hits only those receptors needed.


 


Personally, I'd hand wrassel em and tie em before I ever use Rompum again... :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :)  :)
 
dtala1006631421459617



I'll make one more comparison...


 


I darted him with straight Medetomidine(M in BAM) three times in four days. Up and at em right away each time. Prolly sedated him 6-7 times in one month trying new stuff.


 


 


 


Personally, I'd hand wrassel em and tie em before I ever use Rompum again... :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :)  :)




 


Not trying to start an argument here but I'm curious as to what difference you noticed (other than mg/kg) between straight medetomidine & xylazine? Both appear to be similar acting a 2 adrenergic agonists. Could the big difference be in the antagonists you reverse with? Have you tried using  antipamezole to antagonise xylazine to see if you have better results?


 


Sharkey


 


Edit to add.


 


If you were in a situation where you have to hand wrestle (bull dog) a deer, azaperone is what you'd want to give them ASAP, it is invaluable in these situations. Folks need to be aware that azaperone will not be reversed by the antagonists when using BAM & will remain in the deers system & effective for over 6 hours. This generally isn't a problem (i think they might enjoy it), but just be aware its still effecting them for several hours after they are reversed.
 
Sharkey, you know I wasn't serious about wrassling a grown buck...last two times I got intimately involved with my old 11 year old buck he whipped my butt pretty badly. Crippled my leg for about four hours last time w/o antlers. And, before anyone asks, there is no video :D


 


the straight Medetomidine acts almost exactly like BAM, It may not be as smooth, but I cannot tell any difference. I used it for 7-8 years before BAM came out and sedated prolly 100 times without any incident. The only prob I've personally ever seen with M or with BAM is a slow recovery. Relatively slow, like ten minutes and they still aren't up and I hit em with another shot of Antesedan and they are up. 90$% are up in five minutes. Never had one out more than fifteen minutes after reversal.


 


On a deer I have to do any surgery on I do not reverse the Butorphanol either.
 
Axis Deer BAM trials

HI,
I was wondering if anyone has used BAM to take down AXIS Deer? we have been having a hard time trying to find a drug that would be safe to sedate the Axis without killing them.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Denis
 

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