Probiotics

ok, hear alot about target Fawn Paste and Probiotics ? Where to get it ordered? What makes it different than any other kind u buy ?





thanks



Rene

Target products in general are all micro-encapsulated which allows them to pass through the rumen and into the intestines which is where they are most beneficial.



I have been extremely happy with all of their products including the fawn paste. www.targetprobiotics.com

We also have a full line of micro-encapsulated probiotics. We carry fawn gels to antler enhancer products. There is also some very good info on the whitetails stomach on the site. If you have any questions fell free to give me a call.



http://www.shockeffectprobiotics.com

Renee - I use Target Probiotics in my fawn program. Here is a link from earlier this year as to my short list of products and their prices. I can place the order for you, just let me know when you are ready.



http://www.deerforums.com/vbforums/showthread.php?t=2007



Thanks!

thanks Robbie.. i will be shooting u an order real soon ! i need to build my stock up

Micro-encapsulation is not needed. It is a sales gimmick. Bacteria and enzymes have to work in the rumen. That is where the feed is fermented and broken done. And the bacteria is mutipling in the intestines so its still working when it gets there. A deer is a ruminate animal. In rumen nutrition you have to feed the rumen not the animal. Micro-encapsulation is expensive and not needed. Try Revive it works and reasonibly priced.

Predator3 said:

We also have a full line of micro-encapsulated probiotics. We carry fawn gels to antler enhancer products. There is also some very good info on the whitetails stomach on the site. If you have any questions fell free to give me a call.



http://www.shockeffectprobiotics.com

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I use shockeffect probitics whitetail conditioner. I like it and will continue to use it. This is the first year going into the winter months that i have felt great about my herds body weight. I had a doe this year that had late fawns and was really worried about her weight and overall health fo Ai this year. Put her on it this stuff 3-4 weeks prior to Ai and she looked like a totally different animal. Worked for me might not for you just like many other products on the market that we all have opinions about. We'll keep using it and dont care to switch.

Revive said:

Micro-encapsulation is not needed. It is a sales gimmick. Bacteria and enzymes have to work in the rumen. That is where the feed is fermented and broken done. And the bacteria is mutipling in the intestines so its still working when it gets there. A deer is a ruminate animal. In rumen nutrition you have to feed the rumen not the animal. Micro-encapsulation is expensive and not needed. Try Revive it works and reasonibly priced.

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Revive I'm sure you have a good probiotic but anybody in the probiotic world knows that the reason for micro-encapsulating is because when a non micro-encapsulated probiotic is consumed there is a percentage destroyed as soon as it is introduced into the stomach acids. Approx. 5 times more than micro-encapsulted bacteria. The micro-encapsulation process allows the beneficial bacteria to survive the damaging stomach acids so it can reach all the chambers of the stomach and the intestines where the nutreints are absorbed. If your not using micro-encapsulated beneficial bacteria your living in the past. Also amino acids and enzymes are what help increase blood flow and vascular expansion during the antler growing season. The bottom line is results. I more than welcome anyone to try any mico-encapsulated bacteria product and compare the two for themselves.

Paul, I am interested in your products but how would you compare yourself to Target Probiotics?

Jeremiah Target has an excellent selection of probiotics. I'm not sure which product you are interested in. We both have a full line of products. I would recommend comparing the labels and pricing. Thanks for the interest.

Paul - I couldn't agree with you more. Micro-encapsulation is a critical component to ensure the most benefit to the animal throughout the entire digestive system. If you don't have some product make it through to the intestines where the absorption takes place, you are wasting your money.



Announcement: Target Probiotics Cervid division is under new ownership. Jeff still owns the Horse, Dog, Cat and other product lines, but all of the Whitetail products are under new ownership. Same great products for your fawns and adult deer, but with updated label descriptions, directions, pricing and more detailed information about the product and how it works is on the way.



I am still a sales rep for Target Whitetail, and will be happy to help answer any questions or take any orders during this transition period.

Predator3, No offense but it is obvious you don't know much about rumen nutrition.

Revive,

I have used both target and shock effect and one thing I can tell you is both the reps from target and shock effect make post on here and put there name, number, and butts on the line and you DO NOT!!!



here is a little something about rumen nutrition for you.







All deer are ruminants and as such digest their food in basically two steps:



Cervidae Rumination: Step 1

1a. First, they eat and incompletely chew the raw plant material they were foraging for. After this material is mixed with some salvia and swallowed, it initially goes into the Rumen, which is the first of the 4 stomach chambers. In a process often called: Foregut Fermentation, the ingested material is mixed with additional saliva and mechanically processed by the stomach muscles; and exposed to symbiotic bacteria, fungi, and protozoa that help break down indigestible Cellulose from the cell wall of the plants they just ate.

1b. Second, the food passes into the Reticulum, where the food and saliva mixture settles into 2 layers of solid and liquid material. These "layers" are important fermentation mats, sometimes termed the "scratch factor. Much of the feed's fiber-carbohydrate components, including cellulose, hemi-cellulose, and pectin are broken down into simple sugar called Glucose with the help of symbiotic microbes. NOTE: this Glucose is the "Primary" energy source for the rumen microbes which provide in microbial protein and various vitamins.

On the other hand; Deer actually get their energy from "Volatile Fatty Acids" which were produced by these important microbes!

1. Acetic Acid

2. Butyric Acid

3. Propionic Acid

Deer Energy: = "Volatile Fatty Acids" which are produced by the microbes

Microbe Energy: = "Glucose" from carbohydrate fermentation, OR feed

These microbes also convert Non-Protein Nitrogen to amino acids that are used by the deer. Non- Protein Nitrogen comes from two sources: 1. From feed and 2. from urea recycled in nitrogen metabolism. The "recycled" urea comes from: 1. Saliva and 2. Rumen wall.

The solid ruminal clump is commonly called a Cud or Bolus. The deer then regurgitates the cud and slowly re-chews it, mixing it with more salvia. Deer salvia contains natural buffers that are essential in providing the proper PH for effective rumination and microbial production. The re-mastication process further mechanically breaks down fibrous material. The gasses: 1. Carbon Dioxide and 2. Methane are relieved by belching and farting. There are about half a million protozoa and 50 billion bacteria per gram of rumen material in a healthy deer!

Cervidae Rumination: Step 2

2a. The "re-chewed" solid and liquid material called the cud, is now composed of more finely divided particles, which suspend easier in liquids. The cud is re-swallowed and passes into the Omasum and is again mechanically reprocessed. Much of the water is removed here before the reprocessed material passes into the last stomach chamber.

2b. The Abomasum is the true stomach of the deer. Here the digestive enzyme called "Lysozyme" is released and "breaks down" the synergistic bacteria, fungi, and protozoa, which in turn release protein and other nutrients into the small intestine for absorption. The protein digesting enzymes, hydrochloric acid, rennin, and pepsin are secreted as well.

Fiber particles remain in the rumen from 20 to 48 hours because bacterial fermentation of fiber is a slow process. However, particles that digest faster tend to stay in the rumen for a shorter period of time.

I agree 100% with that. I know rumen nutrition and also know that you have to feed the rumen and that the bacteria and enzymes work in the rumen to break do the feed stuffs so that it can be absorbed in the intestines. I am not knocking there products. But I have a product that will do just as good if not better for less money and that microencapsulation is not needed. And if anybody doubts if the Revive product works I have plenty of people using it to back it up.

Jamie

if you listen to Paul and Robbie on here. People buy from them because of how the treat each other. They both will talk about the good of the products they sell but not once do they bad mouth the others. Sure they come to defend there process but who wouldnt. Revive just my opinion here but you might want to reaproach your sales strategy!



Paul And Robbie class acts.

Randy - nice data. Thanks for that.



Paul and I are essentially competitors, and we are friendly and respectful about it. Welcome to a free market. Jamie, you are welcome here, too, but you might get more flies with honey.



I happen to think Target is best, Paul thinks ShockEffect is, and clearly, Jamie thinks Revive is. As I have said to many of you over and over again, any probiotic is better than none. Use what you believe in and see results with. I'd love to sell you mine, just as they'd love to sell you theirs. I think microencapsulation is very important, as does Paul, and I personally am willing to spend the extra dollars for what I believe to be the best product available for my deer.



We all have the common goal to raise the biggest, healthiest animals possible. Let's just get on with the business of being the best stewards of our animals that we can be.

Well spoken Robbie. I personally thank you for all the help you have given me over the phone, and on these forums. You are a Class Act. Thanks again, Allen

Circle J - thanks for that. I certainly have a lot of respect for Paul and his deer knowledge. I have no doubt that he produces a quality product, even if it isn't quite as good as mine pKIDDING!!!). As a customer, this comes down to personal preference, experience with a specific product, and relationships.



Thanks Allen! I am glad to help anytime.

I have used Target & I have also used Revive. I must say that they are both good products. We currently have our deer on Revive & we have seen great results with it. We had a fawn that had tremendous weight loss, scours & loss of appetite. We met Jamie up at Shipshewana sale he explained & went over his product & we gave it a try. Within 2 days our buck was cleared up no scours, appetite back 100% & we also saw where it improved it his antler growth. We have seen healthier deer in our entire herd.



For us right now we will continue to us Revive.

Just my 2 cents I am very new to deer and I will say I don't know much but what I read and what the great folks here help me with I have no idea what meds I need and came on to try and find out since I am getting deer in the morning. I have read all of the post and still not sure what I need but from reading the post here I am sure Robbie will help me out.



to get to my point I will buy my products from Robbie for one reason she is polite she talks her product up and not others down and with her attitude to the folks on here and to us newbi's I know I will get GREAT customer service from her and if I have a question I know she will try and help me.

I hope no one minds me putting my 2 cents in since I am a green horn

Bryan