Robbie just wondering if you can email me on your convience. I have some ????s My email is [email protected] Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.
Probiotics
- Thread starter rehabgal
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Joined Apr 2009
558 Posts | 0+
Defiance, MO
Robbie, very well said. There is more to it than just feeding probiotics. It takes a combination of high quality products (Amino acids, Enzymes, Prebiotics and Kelp) that work in conjuction with each other to grow bigger antlers. Here are some helpful definitions and reasons why.
*What are enzymes?
Enzymes are proteins that are produced naturally by plants, animals, bacteria, fungi and all other living things, and are absolutely necessary for life. They are catalysts that accelerate the rate of chemical reaction without changing themselves. Commercially available enzymes are derived from bacteria and fungi such as Bacillus, Aspergillus and Triochoderma species.
*How do enzymes work? Enzymes work by breaking apart large complex compounds (substrates) into smaller, more readily absorbed nutrients that bacteria can utilize. Only very small quantities of enzymes are needed to change very large quantities of substrate: typically enzyme to substrate ratios can range from 1:1,000 to 1:1,000,000.
*Why bacteria and enzymes?
Why not bacteria or enzymes only? In the past, biological products have come in two forms; bacteria formulations, enzyme producing bacteria formulations and enzyme only formulations. A crash course in microbiology shows that all bacteria produce their own specific enzymes to aid in the digestion of the food source that Mother Nature created them to eat. By using a "bacteria only" or "enzyme producing bacteria" (remember that ALL bacteria produce enzymes), you are counting on the bacteria to produce their own enzymes to do the job they were bought to do. Unfortunately, since the majority of products are not stabilized, you are asking the ineffective strains to perform a task that they simply cannot handle. By using an enzyme only product, you simply are not "finishing" the job. Enzyme only products simply convert food sources into simpler forms without digesting them completely. Enzyme only products usually only pass the problem down the line to cause substantially larger problems later. By combining the proper bacteria strains with the appropriate enzymes, these formulas have an immediate action. This immediate digestion enables our bacteria strains to "adhere" to food sources, where they continue to eat until the food source is gone.
*Why use Micro-encapsulation? The important thing to remember about biological products is that you are dealing with live organisms. Manufacturers add a food source to their probiotic products. The food source is most often a cereal grain of some sort. Once the product leaves the lab the organisms are eating and reproducing in the package they where shipped in. Each generation becomes less and less effective. By the time the product is purchased for use, the buyer has no guarantee of any effectiveness. In addition, liquids and powder forms of this type have a short shelf life. Micro-encapsulation means to protect encapsulated active contents from the external environment. The bacteria are in a state of suspended animation or "dormancy". When the product is ingested, the protective barrier starts to dissolve and the user is insured that the highest count possible of beneficial bacteria is now working through out the entire digestive system. I have heard other probiotic companies claim that micro-encapsulated bacteria will only reach the intestines. Keep in mind mother nature designed whitetail to consume there food and escape to safety where they can now start the digestion process(chew their cud). This does not happen in a matter of seconds. The micro-encapsulation process helps to protect from the harsh gastric conditions and temperatures to deliver them with an improved survival rate. The survival of live bacteria must be insured during their passage to allow the bacteria to be distributed in all the stomach chambers and the intestines for maximum nutrition absorption. Studies have shown that there is up to a 5 times greater loss of bacteria in non micro-encapsulated products while passing through the digestive system. The patented micro-encapsulation process allows us to have a shelf life of 2 years
*Why amino acids?
The amino acids and their main functions used in Shock Effects Genetic Enhancer.
Arginine- Is used to make nitric oxide, which reduces blood vessel stiffness, increase blood flow and improves blood vessel function. Helps with healing wounds on your deer. Natural growth hormone.
Lysine- Needed for proper growth and bone development. Aids in the production of antibodies, hormones and enzymes. It also helps the body absorb calcium.
Glutamine- Essential for removing excess ammonia(a common waste product in the body). It also helps with the immune and digestive systems.
Glycine- Essential to help increase naturally occurring growth hormones in the body. It is used to help create muscle tissue and convert glucose into energy and is essential in maintaining a healthy digestive system.
Proline- Essential for the production of collagen and cartilage. Collagen is a building block of tendons, ligament, arteries, veins and muscles. It also helps the body break down proteins for use in creating healthy cells in the body.
Manganese Amino Acid Complex- Essential mineral for normal growth and development. Copper Amino Acid Complex- Promotes normal red blood cell formation.
Zinc Amino Acid- Essential mineral in maintaining healthy skin, hair, and mucous membranes. Helps in maintaining a healthy immune system.
One last thing to look for in a quality probiotic product is prebiotics.
Prebiotics are sources of non-digestible, soluble fiber that serve as food for the probiotics or "good" bugs in the large intestine, keeping them healthy. Examples of prebiotics are: arabinogalactan, fructooligosaccharides (FOS), inulin, mannanoligosaccharides (MOS), pectin and psyllium.
Kelp has over 70 vitamins, minerals, growth hormones, trace elements, and enzymes. It is 28% minerals by weight and includes a large number of trace minerals. The minerals are naturally chelated to enhance the bio-availability. Many of these are not found in organic soils.
As Robbie said we are not growing cattle. Using a regular probiotic is better than nothing but there is a lot more to it. The goal is to get your bucks body condition in top shape from the beneficial bacteria by improving his over all heath and absorption rate. This way he is not wasting critical energy to maintain his body and it can be used to target antler growth. Next the combination of enzymes and amino acids go to work to improve the blood flow and expand blood vessels to maximize antler growth.
Now that we have covered all that you can see why there is a price difference. I leave it up to you all to make the choice.
Sorry if I misspelled any words I'm just a dumb redneck.
*What are enzymes?
Enzymes are proteins that are produced naturally by plants, animals, bacteria, fungi and all other living things, and are absolutely necessary for life. They are catalysts that accelerate the rate of chemical reaction without changing themselves. Commercially available enzymes are derived from bacteria and fungi such as Bacillus, Aspergillus and Triochoderma species.
*How do enzymes work? Enzymes work by breaking apart large complex compounds (substrates) into smaller, more readily absorbed nutrients that bacteria can utilize. Only very small quantities of enzymes are needed to change very large quantities of substrate: typically enzyme to substrate ratios can range from 1:1,000 to 1:1,000,000.
*Why bacteria and enzymes?
Why not bacteria or enzymes only? In the past, biological products have come in two forms; bacteria formulations, enzyme producing bacteria formulations and enzyme only formulations. A crash course in microbiology shows that all bacteria produce their own specific enzymes to aid in the digestion of the food source that Mother Nature created them to eat. By using a "bacteria only" or "enzyme producing bacteria" (remember that ALL bacteria produce enzymes), you are counting on the bacteria to produce their own enzymes to do the job they were bought to do. Unfortunately, since the majority of products are not stabilized, you are asking the ineffective strains to perform a task that they simply cannot handle. By using an enzyme only product, you simply are not "finishing" the job. Enzyme only products simply convert food sources into simpler forms without digesting them completely. Enzyme only products usually only pass the problem down the line to cause substantially larger problems later. By combining the proper bacteria strains with the appropriate enzymes, these formulas have an immediate action. This immediate digestion enables our bacteria strains to "adhere" to food sources, where they continue to eat until the food source is gone.
*Why use Micro-encapsulation? The important thing to remember about biological products is that you are dealing with live organisms. Manufacturers add a food source to their probiotic products. The food source is most often a cereal grain of some sort. Once the product leaves the lab the organisms are eating and reproducing in the package they where shipped in. Each generation becomes less and less effective. By the time the product is purchased for use, the buyer has no guarantee of any effectiveness. In addition, liquids and powder forms of this type have a short shelf life. Micro-encapsulation means to protect encapsulated active contents from the external environment. The bacteria are in a state of suspended animation or "dormancy". When the product is ingested, the protective barrier starts to dissolve and the user is insured that the highest count possible of beneficial bacteria is now working through out the entire digestive system. I have heard other probiotic companies claim that micro-encapsulated bacteria will only reach the intestines. Keep in mind mother nature designed whitetail to consume there food and escape to safety where they can now start the digestion process(chew their cud). This does not happen in a matter of seconds. The micro-encapsulation process helps to protect from the harsh gastric conditions and temperatures to deliver them with an improved survival rate. The survival of live bacteria must be insured during their passage to allow the bacteria to be distributed in all the stomach chambers and the intestines for maximum nutrition absorption. Studies have shown that there is up to a 5 times greater loss of bacteria in non micro-encapsulated products while passing through the digestive system. The patented micro-encapsulation process allows us to have a shelf life of 2 years
*Why amino acids?
The amino acids and their main functions used in Shock Effects Genetic Enhancer.
Arginine- Is used to make nitric oxide, which reduces blood vessel stiffness, increase blood flow and improves blood vessel function. Helps with healing wounds on your deer. Natural growth hormone.
Lysine- Needed for proper growth and bone development. Aids in the production of antibodies, hormones and enzymes. It also helps the body absorb calcium.
Glutamine- Essential for removing excess ammonia(a common waste product in the body). It also helps with the immune and digestive systems.
Glycine- Essential to help increase naturally occurring growth hormones in the body. It is used to help create muscle tissue and convert glucose into energy and is essential in maintaining a healthy digestive system.
Proline- Essential for the production of collagen and cartilage. Collagen is a building block of tendons, ligament, arteries, veins and muscles. It also helps the body break down proteins for use in creating healthy cells in the body.
Manganese Amino Acid Complex- Essential mineral for normal growth and development. Copper Amino Acid Complex- Promotes normal red blood cell formation.
Zinc Amino Acid- Essential mineral in maintaining healthy skin, hair, and mucous membranes. Helps in maintaining a healthy immune system.
One last thing to look for in a quality probiotic product is prebiotics.
Prebiotics are sources of non-digestible, soluble fiber that serve as food for the probiotics or "good" bugs in the large intestine, keeping them healthy. Examples of prebiotics are: arabinogalactan, fructooligosaccharides (FOS), inulin, mannanoligosaccharides (MOS), pectin and psyllium.
Kelp has over 70 vitamins, minerals, growth hormones, trace elements, and enzymes. It is 28% minerals by weight and includes a large number of trace minerals. The minerals are naturally chelated to enhance the bio-availability. Many of these are not found in organic soils.
As Robbie said we are not growing cattle. Using a regular probiotic is better than nothing but there is a lot more to it. The goal is to get your bucks body condition in top shape from the beneficial bacteria by improving his over all heath and absorption rate. This way he is not wasting critical energy to maintain his body and it can be used to target antler growth. Next the combination of enzymes and amino acids go to work to improve the blood flow and expand blood vessels to maximize antler growth.
Now that we have covered all that you can see why there is a price difference. I leave it up to you all to make the choice.
Sorry if I misspelled any words I'm just a dumb redneck.
OK Paul, now my brain hurts!!!
All I know is that the stuff works!! Our deer are exceptionally healthy, even the bucks bodies are in PRIME condition right now, they look better coming out of the rut than they ever have in years past. I can't wait till they start growing antlers this spring. Our button bucks and doe fawns are also bigger than they have ever been in the past. This will be a very exciting growing season at Whiskey Ridge, as I'm sure it will be at many other farms.
!!! All I know is that the stuff works!! Our deer are exceptionally healthy, even the bucks bodies are in PRIME condition right now, they look better coming out of the rut than they ever have in years past. I can't wait till they start growing antlers this spring. Our button bucks and doe fawns are also bigger than they have ever been in the past. This will be a very exciting growing season at Whiskey Ridge, as I'm sure it will be at many other farms.
I told you I would delete if you could show a differnce so i did.
In my opinion I still don't believe there is enough differnce to justifiy the cost.
In my opinion I still don't believe there is enough differnce to justifiy the cost.
Robert
If he would have had a legitimate question, or asked about it "in private" I'm sure he would have gotten a little different response. When you come up here and bash a certain product in the open, that you obviously know nothing about it strikes a chord. If you have a question, ask away, the people up here have shown they will answer with no problem. If you want to come up here and bash products or people or their deer, go somewhere else. People have been playing these games to long, taking jabs at people, deer and products and then try to say "what did I do", again, questions are always answered with no problems as far as I see. Jabs and stabs are answered in a different way.
If he would have had a legitimate question, or asked about it "in private" I'm sure he would have gotten a little different response. When you come up here and bash a certain product in the open, that you obviously know nothing about it strikes a chord. If you have a question, ask away, the people up here have shown they will answer with no problem. If you want to come up here and bash products or people or their deer, go somewhere else. People have been playing these games to long, taking jabs at people, deer and products and then try to say "what did I do", again, questions are always answered with no problems as far as I see. Jabs and stabs are answered in a different way.
just a question for jw whitetails. where are you located because i did a little reasearch and in the phone book for illinois there is no such name for jw whitetails or jeff. even a broad internet search turned up nothing. just seems a little fishy. why be so bitter for someone being successful in there business. i see no reason to down talk someone for coming out with a product that does work. if you are going to single one probiotic out there better be a little more evidence. my two cents.
one of the best John Wayne quotes comes to mind.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them."
Shockeffect team in my book are up and up. I respect the fact that they would stand up and defend themselves and there product. honestly if i didnt see the passion in there voices when i talked to them on the phone or hear fire in there words here on this thread i probably would go else where. Thinking that they were jsut another business after my dollar. But knowing that these guys stand behind there product and do what they say they are going to do. again as i have said before is class to me.
We all have different products we as deer farmers indorse or stand behind. We build relationship with these vendors or manufatures and if your like me relationships win over price 9 times out of 10. You all at shockeffects keep doing what your doing you will continue to get my order again next month!
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them."
Shockeffect team in my book are up and up. I respect the fact that they would stand up and defend themselves and there product. honestly if i didnt see the passion in there voices when i talked to them on the phone or hear fire in there words here on this thread i probably would go else where. Thinking that they were jsut another business after my dollar. But knowing that these guys stand behind there product and do what they say they are going to do. again as i have said before is class to me.
We all have different products we as deer farmers indorse or stand behind. We build relationship with these vendors or manufatures and if your like me relationships win over price 9 times out of 10. You all at shockeffects keep doing what your doing you will continue to get my order again next month!
Guy with this early start with Shock Effect we are going to run several CBC TEST on our deer this coming fall. If any of you want to know more about this call me at 314-359-1742. We know the reference range on the calcium and the phosphorus in the blood stream.A real good number is 10 to 11.5 on calcium in the blood. and the phosphorus 6.8 to 9.There is several different counts that you can keep records on your deer. If you put a buck down this fall have your vet pull a purple top and red top tube of blood , pull the purple first. If you have low count. you know that you got to move your calcium up and your phosphours.We had a few farm ran CBC last year we got will good counts. I have alot of other thing I will share with you if you want to call. Keep CBC records on your deer if you want to share with your test that fine we will share with ours.In the fall if you draw semen just check your count levels and see if they are higher on Shock Effect then you used to. We are going to test this fall on differ farms to see if there is any change that we see on the semen counts.We had alot of calles last summer telling us there antlers was getting darker. Guys we are here to help in any way
thank you
Steve
thank you
Steve