Review: Version 23 of Chronic Wasting Disease Program Standards “Better than Version 22, but still Burdensome to Industry”

Mike,


 


I do wish you good luck and I hope we do get a live animal CWD test but until we do, nothing has changed. This industry is still in trouble.


 


For the people that have lost their business because of the unreasonable overregulation and for the people still in the business that can't pay their bills for the same reason just mentioned, they will say the ship has already sunk. For those that are managing to hold on, at least temporarily, it may be hard for them to admit the ship is going down. For those buyers that are making a fast buck because of the depressed market on meat and antler, they're unconcerned about what happens to the ship. If it sinks, they will just move on to something else, some other way to make a buck.


 


It's kind of like this: If your neighbor loses his job, it's a recession. If you lose your job it's a depression.


 


I appreciate all that has been done this far but the fact remains, this industry is still in big trouble whether we want to admit it or not.

Autry896191389223800



Mike,


 


I do wish you good luck and I hope we do get a live animal CWD test but until we do, nothing has changed. This industry is still in trouble.


 


For the people that have lost their business because of the unreasonable overregulation and for the people still in the business that can't pay their bills for the same reason just mentioned, they will say the ship has already sunk. For those that are managing to hold on, at least temporarily, it may be hard for them to admit the ship is going down. For those buyers that are making a fast buck because of the depressed market on meat and antler, they're unconcerned about what happens to the ship. If it sinks, they will just move on to something else, some other way to make a buck.


 


It's kind of like this: If your neighbor loses his job, it's a recession. If you lose your job it's a depression.


 


I appreciate all that has been done this far but the fact remains, this industry is still in big trouble whether we want to admit it or not.




I have agreed with you on many things on here and to a point i do on this statement but i dont see where our ship has sunk when we just had a auction that sold 200 whitetails for 1.3 million dollars. To me that sounds like a winner.  If some have folded because of this, Well that sucks but i have heard of none.  We do not have cows, we have game animals so we will always be regulated, To a point!  Always!!  There are alot of young guys just getting into this business that can and will be a success.


 Yes we have been thrown under the bus by the Depts to the public by lie after lie. They have cwd as a pawn and untill we change that nothing will change. It may suck but if it takes us to get a cwd blood test, prove it works and put it into our program to shove this down their throats then i say we do it.


 


Yes there are choices and if some want to take their fence down and sell out, well thats their choice. I will say it untill i am blue in the face that we need to take a percent out of every deer or semen sale to go into a fund for us to use as needed.  I mean come on! Its 125 grand for a years worth of blood work research!  How many freakin animals have sold at auction for that much? 1 animal!!!nn This should be petty cash for us to come up with.  We just sold 1.3 million in sales. If $1.50... a cup of coffee.. was takin of the top of each sale, how much is that? Or 1% of 1.3 million. Now times that times the 5.6.7.8 auctions we have a year. Now take the same off each sale on the exchange. Now how many thousands do we have in the kitty to fund stuff like this when we need it. We all sell something. One sale at the top 30 last year generated how many thousands in sales in 5 minutes? 6 figure maybe?


 I think we are missing the boat on this one. It works for the beef guys!

Mike,


 


I'm not against raising the funds for research but one thing is being overlooked.


 


The government has allowed the movement of wild animals by wildlife agencies using other test when they will not allow us to do the same. I'm not convinced that the government will ever validate a live animal test because their goal is not safe animal movement. Their goal is to eliminate the competition which is this industry. I hope I'm wrong about this.

Autry896261389238055



Mike,


 


I'm not against raising the funds for research but one thing is being overlooked.


 


The government has allowed the movement of wild animals by wildlife agencies using other test when they will not allow us to do the same. I'm not convinced that the government will ever validate a live animal test because their goal is not safe animal movement. Their goal is to eliminate the competition which is this industry. I hope I'm wrong about this.




So what will they use for an excuse to be rid of us?   I sure dont hear any DEC or DNR running around saying...Oh these damn deer farmers are making great big deer and taking all our hunters away from us.  Even though thats the case.  Get the cwd excuse out of their hands and then they have nothing to use!   In any court of law.   There not locking anybody for any other reason than CWD!

CWD has been their weapon of choice but if it wasn't that, it would be something else. They will use anything they think will work. This fight has never been about the spread of disease. It has been about eliminating the competition and they will stop at nothing to do that. I've been up against these guys since 1980 and nothing has changed. Beat them in court, even if it takes 15 years like it did me and then they will leave you alone. Making comments, writing letters and having meetings is great but it won't save this industry.

I'm a bit confused as to what real good a live CWD test would do of us ! I would think a vaccine much more valueable than just another way to find the crap ! If it takes months for CWD to show up in an exposed animal than why would one feel confident a cervid was free of CWD from a live test ? What if it just hasn't had it long enough to show up ? On the other hand if we could come up with a vaccine that could and would assure our animals couldn't contract CWD wouldn't that be of much more value ? Wouldn't that give our industry a huge advantage over the free ranging DNR's deer as well as give us more assurance we can remain CWD free ? What am I missing thinking a vaccine would be much more to our advantage ?

A vaccine that prevents the disease would be more valuable that a live test. For a live test to be of any real value, it would have to detect the disease in the very early stages of the disease. Even with a live test, it won't be of any value to us unless the government accepts it.

Wooden Acers896291389240041



I'm a bit confused as to what real good a live CWD test would do of us ! I would think a vaccine much more valueable than just another way to find the crap ! If it takes months for CWD to show up in an exposed animal than why would one feel confident a cervid was free of CWD from a live test ? What if it just hasn't had it long enough to show up ? On the other hand if we could come up with a vaccine that could and would assure our animals couldn't contract CWD wouldn't that be of much more value ? Wouldn't that give our industry a huge advantage over the free ranging DNR's deer as well as give us more assurance we can remain CWD free ? What am I missing thinking a vaccine would be much more to our advantage ?




You are spot on and that is on going along with the blood test research.  

A vaccine presents a lot of issues.


* how effective is the vaccine- not all vaccines are 100% protective against viruses so I would not expect it to be


  100 % for a prion if at all


   we will see what the research proves and it may take years to prove a vaccine a lot longer than getting a live test


*The vaccine has to go through an approval through the USDA unless it is given a conditional license


    and if not enough of the vaccine is sold they will not pursue full licensure which could really leave us hanging


    as an industry.  This happened with the EPM vaccine in horses that vaccinated for a protozoa. the number of     


     sales was not worth them going any further after the conditional licensure


*compliance of giving the vaccine.


*verification that the animal got the vaccine.  unless a 2nd party administers it how can they trust that those are vaccinated that they say?


*2 initial shots and then a booster yearly


*will the vaccine kill any prions if the animal already has them?


*will the government accept vaccination?


* i'm not discouraging the use of a vaccine this is just things I can think of off the top of my head that would be problematic


 


More research is being done as we speak about how long it takes for the animal to become + in the blood after exposure.


Sure the test doesn't prevent but it tells us something at a point in time.


CWD prevalence is kinda like a needle in a hay stack in farmed deer. Vaccination could be overkill. Vaccines are more desirable when the chance of disease is greater.  I guess I wouldn't want to be the company making the vaccine if there was a live test available. 

Jerrliee, My worry about a vaccine vs a live test. I don't think a vaccine will get the borders open. The states will be looking for animals that are not carriers. A live test will do this, and make the states much more comfortabable about allowing your animals in.

Gary

EVERYONE NEEDSTO READ THIS ABOUT VACCINES


 


Google prion and vaccine for yourself


I found 2 pages of research papers starting as early as 2005 (9 years ago).  They ALL talked about the difficulty of making a vaccine for a prion and if they were effective they SLOWED THE PROGRESSION OF THE DISEASE they did not prevent it.  Is this what we want for this industry? Is this how our money should be spent? Do we think the government will let us move animals if the disease is slowed and not prevented??? He$$ no!!!!


Unless Prevent  has come up with a vaccine that PREVENTS CWD this vaccine is a pipedream period.  I cannot find anything from Prevent on their research and the premise they are basing the vaccine on. Has anyone else?  We need to be  asking these questions to Prevent themselves before we get deeper with this company.  They could be targeting  a desperate industry to fund their research all the while it will do us no good but it will humans.  Now, it may do people that have alzheimers good by slowing the disease but what good will it do us?  ABSOLUTELY NONE

A vaccine that only slows the disease down and does not prevent the disease would be of no value to the industry.

I agree , a vaccine that prevents CWD would be the only kind of vaccine that would really help us at this point. Would it be approved ? Probably has the same chances as a live blood test I would think ! If I was was buying a deer I'd feel a bit more comfortable with an animal from a well vaccinated herd (if we had a vaccine) than one that pasted a blood test not knowing if it could still have it and how long . There's no real good solutions.............yet !! But I'm not jumping off the ship yet either ! Gee I just noticed I went from a Senior menber to a newbie some how!

Wooden,


 


The reason you went from Senior to newbie was that you registered again as a new member instead of using your old account. I have merged the two for continuity and sent you an e-mail with your reset password.


 


Russell

We need as many tools as we can get for this disease that shows up out of no where and threatens our industry.  If and when we get a live test and a vaccine, the wildlife agencies will no longer be able to use the disease against us like they are now.  The reason we are not trying to raise funds for the vaccine is because Prevent has found the funding they needed to continue their research.  The blood test research looks promising but there currently is no funding to continue the project.  Neither one is going to be the perfect answer, but it is sure better than what we have now and that is to kill the animal and test its brain.

Russell ,sorry for the confusion I didn't know we could use our old info ! Also thanks so much for allowing us to use this forum the way we do ! Great information on here !           As far as a vaccine verses a blood test Lauries right either one would give us a boost against CWD being used against us !  I know I myself would really like to know I could vaccinate my fawns and booster them as they grow older and know they wouldn't pick up CWD ! I'd also love to see what the reg's would be like then ! Surely would make things interesting to say the least !!!!!

I have a quick question when the federal rule was written could there have been a provision that might have said something like no state would be able to close it's boarders. Might there be a place for it in the standards or was it tried and I missed it?


 


Chuck

chutch2898291389899254



I have a quick question when the federal rule was written could there have been a provision that might have said something like no state would be able to close it's boarders. Might there be a place for it in the standards or was it tried and I missed it?


 


Chuck




Thats one of the biggest problems with all of it. At the end of the day the state makes the call, Any rule or standard be damned.  Before our state shut the doors they would not accept any animals from any state that did not have a testing program at least as good as ours. Im afraid more states will take this crazy thinking on and do the same. A couple states may lax their testing which may be good for the farmers in those states but if other states refuse animals from that state, what have you really gained.


Maybe if all states were all under the same blanket as far as testing would help but untill we beat the cwd crap that the states dec and dnr's use against us as their leverage i dont see much changing. We know the problem, We just have to get the answer that is best for the good of the industry.


I believe that answer could be blood testing but then there will be issues with that. 

Chuck,  That is called a Federal Preemption.  They did that with the "transiting through states" clause.  [No state can deny you transiting  through their state to get to a state on the other side]


 


I think their should have been 2 more Federal Preemptions added to this rule.


 


1. States couldn't make rules MORE restrictive than the Federal Rule.


2. States couldn't close their borders to animals of "certified herds".


 


1. The reason for the Rule was to have uniformity among states.  If each state can add its own little "twist", on the program we lose uniformity.  Some states have way to much political influences, running their programs.  I would hope that the Federal Program would be "above" local political pressures. 


 


2. Once we were certified, we were supposed to get relief.  That hasn't happened.  Instead we are getting more restricted.  After 10 years of testing, we should be able to go anywhere with our deer.  That hasn't happened.  More states are closing every year.   The only thing we get for being certified is, it allows me to leave the state.  If there is nowhere to go, what is the point of being certified?  In the prelude to the rule [55.21], it talks about the program being a cooperative effort " to encourage breeders to certify their herds".  If the program is so strict, with no benefits, and we drop out.  Isn't the program doing the exact opposite of what it was designed to do?


 


Gary Olson