Joined Sep 2010
572 Posts | 0+
Indiana
With Domitor(the M in BAM) I had one out for six hours, reversed and he stood in four minutes.
had one out for 1-2 hours with same stuff a bunch of times.
had one out for 1-2 hours with same stuff a bunch of times.
Joined Apr 2009
1,136 Posts | 0+
Bedford, PA
dtala said:
That's really impressive. So are you saying that you only used 1/3 of the mixture for BAM?
Thanks.
IowaMike said:
Hey Mike
Is the nature of your question more ''How long will a deer stay out w/o reversal before starting to come around?'' or more ''How long should you allow a deer stay out to avoid unnecessary risk?''
Sandridge Whitetails said:
Mark
How long should you allow a deer stay out to avoid unnecessary risk?
Thanks
As with all things Mike, I think one must always weigh ''risk against gain'', as in why is there a need to leave them ''out'' for awhile.
I will be speaking here on my experience using 100mg/ml Xylazine mixed with Telazol(100mg/ml) of various mixes of mls of Xylazine per bottle of Telazol(5ml). I've never had any experience using BAM or any other sedative drugs for deer.
Touching on the risk factor - Whenever sedating, it is always best to fast the deer the day before sedation. Xlazine is the culprit drug when using the mix I speak of above. Xylazine takes a deer's ability to use their muscles away, hence the reason to fast your deer the day prior. If the deer has stomach contents enter the throat during the process of the sedation, and then does not have the ability to swallow due to the Xylazine, the deer is apt or can then breath those contents that are in their throat into their lungs, and they will typically die 10 days to 2 weeks or so later of asperated pneumonia.
Fasting or not fasting your deer the day before, you should always keep the deer's head, neck and chest above the rest of the body...the head higher than everything, the neck higher than the chest and the chest higher than the rest of the body would be the perfect scenario. We always used leafs of straw to accomplish this to prop them up accordingly. Sternal angle is good here.
Before I started using Tolazine as a reversal, or reversal at all for that matter(cause I was under the direction of my ''old'' vet not to use reversal, there's a good idea for ya, NOT), I've seen them be out for hours and as long as they were propped properly and fasted the day before, I never had any problems. Before Tolazine, I used Yohimbine as a reversal, which I personally think is next to worthless. I've seen deer wake up on there own with no reversal as quick or quicker than when given Yohimbine, and have seen them lay for HOURS after an injection of Yohimbine...this of course being dictated by each and every individual deer as it relates how they react to the drugs we give them.
So Mike, Yes it's best I believe to bring them back as quick as you can, but I personally would not be real concerned over how long they were under, as long as you have taken all the necessary precautions above, ie fasting and proper positioning of their body.
Best to you Mike!
I will be speaking here on my experience using 100mg/ml Xylazine mixed with Telazol(100mg/ml) of various mixes of mls of Xylazine per bottle of Telazol(5ml). I've never had any experience using BAM or any other sedative drugs for deer.
Touching on the risk factor - Whenever sedating, it is always best to fast the deer the day before sedation. Xlazine is the culprit drug when using the mix I speak of above. Xylazine takes a deer's ability to use their muscles away, hence the reason to fast your deer the day prior. If the deer has stomach contents enter the throat during the process of the sedation, and then does not have the ability to swallow due to the Xylazine, the deer is apt or can then breath those contents that are in their throat into their lungs, and they will typically die 10 days to 2 weeks or so later of asperated pneumonia.
Fasting or not fasting your deer the day before, you should always keep the deer's head, neck and chest above the rest of the body...the head higher than everything, the neck higher than the chest and the chest higher than the rest of the body would be the perfect scenario. We always used leafs of straw to accomplish this to prop them up accordingly. Sternal angle is good here.
Before I started using Tolazine as a reversal, or reversal at all for that matter(cause I was under the direction of my ''old'' vet not to use reversal, there's a good idea for ya, NOT), I've seen them be out for hours and as long as they were propped properly and fasted the day before, I never had any problems. Before Tolazine, I used Yohimbine as a reversal, which I personally think is next to worthless. I've seen deer wake up on there own with no reversal as quick or quicker than when given Yohimbine, and have seen them lay for HOURS after an injection of Yohimbine...this of course being dictated by each and every individual deer as it relates how they react to the drugs we give them.
So Mike, Yes it's best I believe to bring them back as quick as you can, but I personally would not be real concerned over how long they were under, as long as you have taken all the necessary precautions above, ie fasting and proper positioning of their body.
Best to you Mike!
Mike ......Mark pretty much covered all the bases.......definitely if you can.....have them fast as Mark said.......and keep them propped up in the right direction so everything stays in their stomach where it belongs......Mark I have a question for you.....since I have never put a deer down without reversing them ..........I was always curious as to how long they stay out without giving them any reversal? I know every deer is different....but just generally speaking here....
Dennis, as you said, every deer is different, and everybody's ''mix'' is different, but I would say...generally as early as 3 to 4 hours, but most a little longer.
WillPenn Whitetails said:
NO, I used straight Domitor without the other drugs in BAM. This was before BAM became available, been using 10mg/ml Domitor for several years. Nowdays I use BAM, so much better than Rompum there is no comparison.
The reversal for BAM(and Domitor) is a very fast acting, clean reversal that reverses the Domitor 100%. Most deer are one their feet in 3-5 minutes with no bad effects.
The deer i've sedated a number of times is an eight year old buck with a medical problem that requires him to be sedated and have surgery every 3-6 months. When he first became ill we tried several different methods to "fix" the problem....resulting in sedating him three times in four days one time. Try that with Rompum and see how it works(badly).
I've put him out probably 30-35 times over the last eight years, never had the first hint of a problem in any way. I have used 8-10 mg of straight Domitor, adding 1cc of Ketamine, and 1cc of Butorphanol after he is down. Surgery on lower abdomen to open a hole for him to pee, usually out for 1-2 hours, max 3 hours. Only other drug is some Lidocaine injections to reduce pain at the opening.
Last surgery we used BAM with excellent results.
I have a buck fawn, I guess about forty to fifty pounds I would like to put down. I have telazol and xylazene mixed 5 to1 with 100mg xylazene.
How much should I dart him with and how much tolazine to reverse?
How much should I dart him with and how much tolazine to reverse?
Speaking of the mixture of telazol and xylazene, my Vet told me that every deer is different and some respond better than others. He mixed me an 8:1 ratio (8cc xylazene to 1 bottle of Telazol) I dart this friday. Before I do, I would like some of your opinions about the ratio. Is that the norm on the mixture? By the way, they are not calm enough to touch but almost. Thanks
Cassie - If it is 100mg/ml Xylazine mixed 5 to one as you say...I would use 1/2 cc.
I've always matched the amount of sedative I used to put them down to then reverse them...so 1/2cc Tolazine to reverse him Cassie.
Jeremy...using the single strength(100mg/ml) Xylazine, I think most mix 5 to 6cc with each bottle. For me, there is a defining difference in mixing it 5 or 6cc. The 2cc dart mixed 5cc/bottle that will normally take my bucks down and keep them down, that same 2cc dart used on the same deer mixed 6cc will ''way to much'' of the time find me sneaking up on them to push more in their butt as they lay there ''mostly'' out, but not enough.
On the other hand, if your darting fawns of the year, I mix it 9 to 10 cc per bottle, dart with a 1/2 cc dart and do well with it.
So Cassie, that is something you could do to stretch your mix, but if you only have one fawn to sedate, and the next one will be an adult, I would keep the mix the way you have it.
There are alot of opinions and different mixes out there from other people...this is what has worked for me.
Hoping the best!
I've always matched the amount of sedative I used to put them down to then reverse them...so 1/2cc Tolazine to reverse him Cassie.
Jeremy...using the single strength(100mg/ml) Xylazine, I think most mix 5 to 6cc with each bottle. For me, there is a defining difference in mixing it 5 or 6cc. The 2cc dart mixed 5cc/bottle that will normally take my bucks down and keep them down, that same 2cc dart used on the same deer mixed 6cc will ''way to much'' of the time find me sneaking up on them to push more in their butt as they lay there ''mostly'' out, but not enough.
On the other hand, if your darting fawns of the year, I mix it 9 to 10 cc per bottle, dart with a 1/2 cc dart and do well with it.
So Cassie, that is something you could do to stretch your mix, but if you only have one fawn to sedate, and the next one will be an adult, I would keep the mix the way you have it.
There are alot of opinions and different mixes out there from other people...this is what has worked for me.
Hoping the best!
Depending on what I'm doing I have had luck with just straight xylazine on small fawns, didn't see a need to add telazol for them. Usually 1cc dart and they are out.
I need to do some research on the BAM ....seems like there are a lot of good results...just need to do the math and see if it is cost effective as well as beneficial for my Whitetails......
Dennis, there is no doubt whatsoever that BAM will be beneficial for your deer.
If you have ever lost/killed a deer with Rompum you will be better off with BAM what ever the cost comparison is.
If you have ever lost/killed a deer with Rompum you will be better off with BAM what ever the cost comparison is.
You have to have your vet send them the prescription with up to 6 refills and then ZooPharm will contact you for payment info.
My vet said they weren't easy to deal with the first time he sent in the script.
My vet said they weren't easy to deal with the first time he sent in the script.