Joined Aug 2012
303 Posts | 0+
Billings, MO
Bell, I think you are on to something with the cattle. During the big outbreaks in Missouri, the farms hit the hardest had cattle close by. Our farm and my neighbors farm did not have cattle very close and losses where minimal. The other factor I noticed is our farm had corn planted around the pens and my neighbors is set in thick timber. I think the timber and corn help act as a road block for midges. I would love to see some research done on vaccinating cattle for ehd.
Joined Apr 2014
1,245 Posts | 0+
Greensburg, IN
In my opinion the midge rarely flies uphill. They fly and stay low to the ground and gravitate toward standing water and mud. When the midges natural flight pattern is considered, it doesn't seem logical or natural for them to pursue a blood meal up a steep hill, which is generally the opposite direction of mud and water. I agree with Cody that they tend to hang out in flat low areas near water and mud waiting for an animal to come for a drink. They seem to flourish in flatter environments. In very hilly and mountainous areas EHD is rarely an issue. Farms that are situated at the top of high steep hills with a buffer of timber around them are the ones that don't get the virus if they don't have cattle roaming the woods. If I ever have another deer farm it will be right on top of a huge hill that is covered with timber as far away from cattle as possible.
Joined May 2009
2,369 Posts | 0+
Chillicothe, Missouri
In my Opinion...........EHD has alot to do with Topography and Genetic lines!
Cattle are a known carrier and according to what I have read some Foreign Countries like The United Kingdom have a Vaccine they use on Cattle but the USDA will not Approve it's use in the United States ?
We have and had Cattle share a common fence with our Deer and neighboring farms here have hundred of cattle...........Yet in 2012 we lost 8 Adult deer and in 2013 only 3.................While 3 farms as close as 5 miles by air and none more than 8 miles by air suffered losses of 100+ Head of Adult DEER.........................But had NO CATTLE within 3-5 miles ?
Also these same farms Had a Misting System going 24/7.........Fogging 3x a day with a Gaurdian Fogger spent a TON of money on Chemicals..............Had a Supply of the remainder of Mo. EHD Vaccine,DBC Vaccine and the so called "Miracle Shot" and some spent thousand dollars plus on Darts alone and Compounded Dex,Draxxin etc.............Yet still suffered Staggering losses!
That is why I still say.............."When" your Farm get the right strain of EHD and I believe they say 26 or 27 Different Strains of EHD
the BEST laid plain to stop .......slow down or end EHD.................Will go right out the F+&%@*#! Window!
Cattle are a known carrier and according to what I have read some Foreign Countries like The United Kingdom have a Vaccine they use on Cattle but the USDA will not Approve it's use in the United States ?
We have and had Cattle share a common fence with our Deer and neighboring farms here have hundred of cattle...........Yet in 2012 we lost 8 Adult deer and in 2013 only 3.................While 3 farms as close as 5 miles by air and none more than 8 miles by air suffered losses of 100+ Head of Adult DEER.........................But had NO CATTLE within 3-5 miles ?
Also these same farms Had a Misting System going 24/7.........Fogging 3x a day with a Gaurdian Fogger spent a TON of money on Chemicals..............Had a Supply of the remainder of Mo. EHD Vaccine,DBC Vaccine and the so called "Miracle Shot" and some spent thousand dollars plus on Darts alone and Compounded Dex,Draxxin etc.............Yet still suffered Staggering losses!
That is why I still say.............."When" your Farm get the right strain of EHD and I believe they say 26 or 27 Different Strains of EHD
the BEST laid plain to stop .......slow down or end EHD.................Will go right out the F+&%@*#! Window!
Jonathan been called a lot of things just not superstious ! I am a okla bussiness man with a very expensive hobby , i don't put name on any of my animals , and damn shur won't chase my Bucks around taking pics , while they r growing antlers no matter how impressive they grow, the buck u mentioned was yellow 5 One of my first breeders ,u r correct northern genetics , he was out of a DNA boomer doe and the sire was a buck named dropper ,AI lost him at 8 yrs old to EHD , was a 6 - 7 with 4 matching drops man that was a long time ago back when 250 plus was huge !
Joined Apr 2014
1,245 Posts | 0+
Greensburg, IN
Mark
It is nice to finally know you. Years ago I was told about your yellow#5 by a fellow who knew how much I loved huge typicals. All I ever knew was how he described you and the buck. I knew you were in Oklahoma that was about all. I don't think he wanted me to know who you were because he was wanting to try to buy his bloodline. I appreciate your thoughts and how you call a spade a spade. You are the kind of person who I respect and listen when you have something to say. I now know you are the gentleman I thought you were.
It is nice to finally know you. Years ago I was told about your yellow#5 by a fellow who knew how much I loved huge typicals. All I ever knew was how he described you and the buck. I knew you were in Oklahoma that was about all. I don't think he wanted me to know who you were because he was wanting to try to buy his bloodline. I appreciate your thoughts and how you call a spade a spade. You are the kind of person who I respect and listen when you have something to say. I now know you are the gentleman I thought you were.
Jonathan, thanks for the kind words , I have lost more then my fair share over the years to EHD , or loaning bucks out for breeders and they get poached by low life pieces of **** , or the comical situation of one getting out of trailer and shot 8 weeks latter poor guy that picked buck up was so proud of his brand new custom built trailer and when I advised him he needs to able to lock doors ,he looked at me like I was crazy ! Guys I start early as I have said before in earlier post and plant wild sunflowers and keep my water troughs directly under my misting heads so chemical blankets the surface if this year holds out it will be number 4 hopefully . With a herd size of 150 plus in 4 small farms here in okla .
for those interested in ehd read the article by Charles black find the article under Charles deer man black
Joined Feb 2013
780 Posts | 1+
Markleville IN
We need a BIG company interested in making ehd vaccine. as long as we don't we will never have a good one. as an industry this should be one of the most important things we should be worried about now besides our CWD issues. as long as there is not a good vaccine I find it very difficult to spend much money on semen to only have the animal died before it reproduces. Most everyone but the far north has or will be affected by ehd.
I have a 5 month old buck fawn that now has EHD. Thursday I hit him with 2cc of Draxxin and 3cc of compounded dex. Friday I hit him with 3cc of compounded dex, today I hit him with 3cc of compounded dex. Any thoughts on what I should do tomorrow. More draxxin ( 2cc) and mor Dex (3cc) Or just draxxin, or just more dex or stop with the meds and give him a break. Thursday his eyes were swollen and his throat looked swollen. Now he has one eye more swollen than the other. throat looks normal. He eats and moves around like the rest of the buck fawns.
I had an xfactor son catch and survive EHD6 last year. I figured i had it made with him. He contracted EHD 2 this year and died 6hrs after becoming symptomatic. Go figure.
Hey Scott, Good to hear from you but so sorry for your loss. I have some showing symptoms and some that look like they just fall over dead. I've got this one now that I posted above. I hit him again with Draxxin today. He's lived longer than any so far. Not sure what to do or not to do at this point.
Joined Apr 2014
1,245 Posts | 0+
Greensburg, IN
We have only had one doe make it this year that has shown EHD symptoms. We have lost 24 adults and some fawns. We have gotten positive test results but have not seen a good reason to pay for additional test to type the virus. The deer who were on our farm when we had type 2 in 2007 seem very resistant. In that outbreak I observed many drooling and with swollen heads etc. These all but a couple have shown no symptoms. I just find them dead or I see them fall down and die. I saw one of the first to die this year walking around with her ears down one Sunday after church. I ran in the house and drew up 3cc of compounded Dex and 2cc of Draxxin. She had just laid down with her hind quarters sticking from behind a metal wall. I was able to sneak up and give her the shots. She died less than 5 minutes later. I don't remember them dying so quickly before with type 2.
Joined Apr 2009
1,562 Posts | 0+
cental Pennsylvania
Jonathan, what sex are the majority of the adults your losing? I always heard bucks were a larger more desirable host for the flies, but it appears from your posts your loosing a lot of does, or has it been about 50/50? Either way, it stings to lose them, I was just curious about the sexes of the deer your loosing. I hope things are settling down, I know here in PA on the mountain my farm is on we are close to a frost tonight. We should have a frost for sure this week coming up.
Joined Apr 2014
1,245 Posts | 0+
Greensburg, IN
Matt
That is very observant. I have lost ninety percent doe. I believe it is the result of a combination of their environment ,numbers co-mingling, and the extra gases coming from their skin resulting from the stress and exertion caused by recent separation from their fawns. The pens where I am losing the most are mowed clean with just a few shade trees. I have lost breeder bucks from these pens including one of our Banjo yearlings. I believe the reason fatter older bucks often die first is because of the timing of EHD outbreaks in the Midwest often coincide with the time period when bucks are shedding velvet and finishing cleaning their antlers off. The exertion from thrashing saplings and weeds causes them to heat up,sweat, and put off the gases that attracts the vector. I have noticed how the Mosquitos are attracted to a fat old guy trying to hang a deer stand on a hot late summer day. Before he screwed all the steps in and started sweating gravy, there were no Mosquitos around. Lol We have around 50 bucks cut in a 10-15 acre pen that is almost all woods with thick weeds underneath. Dad found a buck in there today that had been dead for a couple days. That is our first one to die in 5 days and the first in that pen. We have lost several in all other pens. Our loses have mainly been in pens with doe that were recently divided up for breeding or AI. Many of these doe had recently been pacing the fences because their fawns had been put into separate pens. These doe would have been hotter and also putting off more of the gases that attract the midge to bite. They say the human skin puts off more than 300 gases(compounds) which attract insects. The most famous is carbon dioxide.The bucks in the thick timber have faired much better than anywhere else. It is odd when they are on one side of the creek just twenty yards from those on the other side where we have sustained heavy loses. The creek is rocky with little mud, very cold , and running continually.
That is very observant. I have lost ninety percent doe. I believe it is the result of a combination of their environment ,numbers co-mingling, and the extra gases coming from their skin resulting from the stress and exertion caused by recent separation from their fawns. The pens where I am losing the most are mowed clean with just a few shade trees. I have lost breeder bucks from these pens including one of our Banjo yearlings. I believe the reason fatter older bucks often die first is because of the timing of EHD outbreaks in the Midwest often coincide with the time period when bucks are shedding velvet and finishing cleaning their antlers off. The exertion from thrashing saplings and weeds causes them to heat up,sweat, and put off the gases that attracts the vector. I have noticed how the Mosquitos are attracted to a fat old guy trying to hang a deer stand on a hot late summer day. Before he screwed all the steps in and started sweating gravy, there were no Mosquitos around. Lol We have around 50 bucks cut in a 10-15 acre pen that is almost all woods with thick weeds underneath. Dad found a buck in there today that had been dead for a couple days. That is our first one to die in 5 days and the first in that pen. We have lost several in all other pens. Our loses have mainly been in pens with doe that were recently divided up for breeding or AI. Many of these doe had recently been pacing the fences because their fawns had been put into separate pens. These doe would have been hotter and also putting off more of the gases that attract the midge to bite. They say the human skin puts off more than 300 gases(compounds) which attract insects. The most famous is carbon dioxide.The bucks in the thick timber have faired much better than anywhere else. It is odd when they are on one side of the creek just twenty yards from those on the other side where we have sustained heavy loses. The creek is rocky with little mud, very cold , and running continually.
Hershey this virus is brutal truly does not discriminate, as far as your buck fawn any thing u can give him to keep him hydrated is just as important , so the antibiotics don't work against u ! Same goes for feed fruit deer treats anything he will eat , exceed is a very good wide spectrum antibiotic but probley not good idea at same time with draxxin ! But u can add sulmet to there drinking water with draxxin use ! Good luck M Kwitowski
