Texas Herd destroyed over "possibility" of CWD

Painted is right.......even if the seller knew it would be hard to proove........other than here in Pa we have to do paperwork through the Dept of Ag. and that would have stopped anything like that from happening......so if they have the same setup where the seller is he should be held accountable too!!!

If someone from texas wants to buy deer from me i'll fill out the paper work and sell them deer as long as they pick them up. It is not illegal for me to sell them deer but,it is illegal to take them acrooss texas state line. That is on them what they do with the deer once they are sold.

David, the first I heard about this was reading it on this thread! I'm not saying this is the case but I would not be surprised if the seller did not cooperate with all officials involved, helping to make the case against Anderton. I am surprised that Texas waited for 8 years to take "affirmative" action. I am not lying when I say I like the Texas game wardens I've dealt with in my county. I would call them before I'd call any other agency in my area if I really needed help with anything they could help with or needed convincing that other departments would be fair and honest should I need any of them. Trust me on this one, there just has to be unseen or disclosed information about this case. I have a hunch but will not publicise it because I could be wrong and I think it would do further harm to innocents.

Scrapelineranch said:

David, the first I heard about this was reading it on this thread! I'm not saying this is the case but I would not be surprised if the seller did not cooperate with all officials involved, helping to make the case against Anderton. I am surprised that Texas waited for 8 years to take "affirmative" action. I am not lying when I say I like the Texas game wardens I've dealt with in my county. I would call them before I'd call any other agency in my area if I really needed help with anything they could help with or needed convincing that other departments would be fair and honest should I need any of them. Trust me on this one, there just has to be unseen or disclosed information about this case. I have a hunch but will not publicise it because I could be wrong and I think it would do further harm to innocents.

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scrapeline, with comments like that id stay in tx, you will NEVER HERE THEM FROM THE NORTH

crocket, 'happy where I am. I don't like the borders being closed but that's going down a rabbit trail. I've lived in 8 other states, mostly when I was growing up. I've had my place 20 years and have had 4 different game wardens. 2 of them I would trust with my life. One of the others was a fill in when we didn't have a warden that I only met twice and then a new guy that I only met once. That's just my personal history. I'm not so nieve to think everyone has been this fortunate. Texas game wardens can enter your home w/o a search warrant. They can issue driver citations, boating citations and more. They have a lot of power here. I guess the only chastising (if you could call it that) I've taken from a warden here was over something I had written in large white letters on some round bales of hay I stretched across one of my gates. It read "MY DEER SHOOT BACK". I was asked to remove them because it might be used against me if anything were to actually happen! About the thread topic, I always will regard innocents and if I remember correctly there is a daughter who probably is being hurt more than anyone over all of this.

Scrapeline, my experience regarding the game wardens is similar to yours. I'm from upstate New York, and I've never had anything but good experiences with the game wardens, (Department of Conservation Officers), out of Region 7 and I only cite Region 7 because I have never dealt with any of the others. These guys have always been respectful, considerate, and helpful to me with whatever issue I've contacted them about. With them being the enforcement branch of the NYS Department of Ag. in New York, they're the ones that issue our yearly game farm licenses and enforce any legal mandates. I do know of an instance that happened a couple years ago where they "ensured" the depopulation of a deer farm close to my farm, but it was only at the direction of the Dept. of Ag., and then only when the owner said he already completed the depopulation and before he opened his gates. In my county, I've never heard of the game wardens even visiting a deer farm unless advised of a situation by the Dept. of Ag.. In fact, even though I probably see them more frequently than some, they've only been to my farm once and that was when I notified them of a whitetail buck stolen out of my pen earlier this past Fall, and then it was only to promptly investigate the theft, and not to give me the third degree about anything else.

I hear these horror stories all the time about how terrible the game wardens are in other places. I think I'm very fortunate to live where I do. Up here in New York, we've got our own problems and issues with bureaucracy overwhelming us, but I definitely don't feel any pressure from our DEC officers.

David, do you have anything to do with golf courses? If so, I'll bet you have done a beautiful lay out of your place.

Scrapelineranch said:

David, do you have anything to do with golf courses? If so, I'll bet you have done a beautiful lay out of your place.

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yep, been in the ( ball beater ) buis, for some time now, how did you know ?

crocket,,,forgive this awful pun...a little birdie told me.

Scrapelineranch said:

crocket,,,forgive this awful pun...a little birdie told me.

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ha-ha- you better keep that birdie in hand , remember keep your head down and your balls out of the rough!!!!!!!!

Merry Christmas to all. I read that this same man, Anderton had bought deer from an unlicensed deer "vendor" in Indiana in 2005. Mr. Anderton claimed innocence in this case and I don't know either way. I do know some of the rumors I've heard about James have not been true. He was, however one of 8 people petitioning the State of Texas several years ago trying to gain breeder claims to ownership of the deer they purchased. What this means is in Texas the deer you legally purchase are your's while in a breeding pen or breeding facility but become property of the state if/when released from the pen and not any longer considered breeder status. Example would be released to hunt...high or low fenced properties.

7. How many elk have been affected by CWD in North America?



Chronic wasting disease primarily affects wild deer and elk, appears to be rare and spreads very slowly. The USDA reports that, of the more than 5,000 wild deer and elk that have been tested since 1990, only 110 clinically affected animals had been identified with CWD. Generally, less than 1% of the wild elk and 5% of wild mule deer in the affected areas are believed to be CWD-positive.

The incidences of CWD in farm elk and deer are even more rare. Those that have been identified are being eradicated. A total of 13 herds in the United States had at least one animal diagnosed with CWD: two in Colorado, one in Montana, two in Nebraska, one in Oklahoma and seven in South Dakota. Of those, seven herds (one in Colorado, one in Montana and five in South Dakota) have been depopulated. Canada has eight herds with at least one case of CWD, including the source herd, which has likely been infected for 10 years. So far, only 16 of the elk in the eight Canadian herds have actually tested positive for the disease. Don't know where he got "tens of thousands"

Smoking,

There are a lot more states than those. Oklahoma depopulated many years ago and those elk were all from a herd that was positive in Montana. There were definitely herds in Wisconsin, New York and Minnesota and they were depopulated as well. I don't have the exact figures with me. The more interesting figures seem to be the concentration of CWD in Wyoming , which never allowed any deer farms, or the case in West Virginia where they were many counties away from any deer farms. The New case in Maryland should raise some eyebrows since they don't have any farmers there. Another interesting thing is there has not been any clinical cases in Whitetail at all. I do0n't know where to tell you to go to get all the numbers as I am out of state.

You should google "Dr. Stanley Prusiner, M.D.". He won the Nobel Prize for medicine in 1997 on research done in prions. Prion research has been extensively done in cattle and sheep, why are the DNR's wanting to do their own studies? We had our first outbreak in Minnesota in a wild deer in January. All I see is the DNR and hunters associations trying to point the finger at the elk herd that had postives. They are making up their own facts in the newspaper trying to sway public option against fenced deer and elk farms.

Sounds like the same tactics used in every state. They can't control the wild herd but they can put the screws to deer farmers. CWD is now in 20 states and I would wager a bet that it is in any others that have resident herds of whitetail, mule deer or elk as well, they just haven't found it yet. It just depends on how hard they are looking for it. I don't believe many deer farms in Texas do CWD monitoring the way we do in other states and I'm not sure how much testing they do in the wild there. It just stands to reason if it is in 20 states, the likelihood is pretty high it is elsewhere. Once it is in every deerfarming state then the playing field will be even and there will be no need for any closed borders etc.

Is this CWD thing, just being used for the DNR's across the country, to keep their budgets from being cut with the state's financial shortfalls? I've seen epidemics in all livestock spieces over the last 40 years, and the Board of Animal Health, and USDA has cleaned up, stopped the spread, and in some cases eradicated the disease. In Minnesota, at the meeting I attended, the DNR and Minn. Deer Hunters Assn, seemed to be picking on the BAH. My opinion not just as a deer farmer but as a livestock producer, I think that the BAH has done an excellent job over the years. The Rochester Post Bulletin [local paper], had articles from 2 different deer hunters this last week. One article was titled "We're already paying a price for inadequate regulations". This article quoted a deer hunter, he stated that the prions in the soil on the elk farm as "a nuclear waste spill", he also said "It is a widely held belief that the captive cervid is too-loosely regulated by the Minnesota Board of Animal Health" , he also promotes an outright ban on captive herds. The other article was "It's time to close loopholes that brought CWD here". I have never seen such bad reporting in my life. They don't realize it, but are they not giving ammo to the anti-hunting groups and vegans? Nuclear waste spill? Come on.... We as deer farmers know we are not undermanaged by the BAH. There has been over 20 years of research on prions and no one seems to be reviewing it. Dr. Stanley Prusiner [won the Nobel prize] claims "the prion,an innocent protein in all humans and animals which can transform into a deadly particle,causing several fatal brain diseases." He found prion diseases such as CJD and scrapie could be inherted, transmitted or occur spontaneously. He also states, In spite of USDA's categorical denials, it's a scientific fact that one in a million cows naturally develops BSE. With all the scientic proof out there, why do they keep coming back to us deer breeders as the cause of their problems? The DNR knows these facts but continues to let the deer hunting associations take cheap shots at us. If the prions in the soil were as toxic as "nuclear waste", then why do they allow four wheelers in these edemic areas and not require them to be washed off before movements? I see four wheelers on the back of vehicles all the time on I90 going out to the Rockies elk hunting and no one sees that as an issue of moving contaminated soil? Eagled and crow [ravens] are known to move prions in their waste but the DNR continues to feed road kill deer to eagles without testing deer first. The DNR also reported they found 39 feeding operations in the zone where they found the wild CWD deer [baiting is illegal in Minn.] but they call them food plots. They also reported numbers over 83 head per square mile, yet only harvesting 4 to 4 1/2 per square mile. I think the hunting groups and DNRs have their own internal issue they need to fix before they start pointing their finger at us. They need to better manage their deer numbers. Why doesn't NADEFA hire Dr. Prusiner to issue a report to set the facts straight once and for all or else this will go on for years to come.

Gary

Also, the deer hunters give credit to the Minn. DNR for a good job of testing the wild herd for CWD. The facts are they have tested 28,000 deer since 2002, since we have a wild herd of 1 million is that a high percentage? The Board of Animal Health has tested over 19,000 head of penned deer out of a herd of 15,107 head since 2002. Who do you think has the better percentage?

Yet the deer hunters think the BAH is doing a poor job of monitoring us?????

Pointing to the Elk farm in Pine Island, maybe the elk farm was the "canary in the gold mine". After they found the positive elk they started testing much heavier in that area and found 1 positive wild deer. Like I said "canary in a gold mine"????? Gary

This is exactly what happened in many other states, including WI, when the first positive was found. We all have to realize that DNR's in general do not like us and aren't going to go out of their way to defend us. Secondly, if facts are put out there they then have to be published in a newspaper or somewhere - we can't force them to do that.



I believe that CWD is a naturally occuring thing. The area in WI with CWD in the wild has more deer now than ever! So how is CWD even a threat! Seems like anthrax in Texas or EHD is a much greater threat to the deer population. Wild deer have to die from something and the odds of them living long enough to die from CWD are slim to none. So why all the fuss about it? If people who hunt want deer tested before they eat it fine. But truly, CWD is a non factor in the wild herd and I'm not sure why it deserves any attention beyond ever other disease out there.

What we know is that all deer that get CWD die some slower some faster ..but they all die. In the mean time when they start to shed their contagions they infect those around them at a high rate especially when they are in a confined area such as a farm. Most of the spread in done through feed as the tonsils become engorged and transfer to the saliva the contagious prion is contact passed through feed dropping out of one deers mouth and being picked up by another... instant infection. Deer introduced to this scenario will be infected within hours of entering the pen. How do we protect our farms? .... We don't, the protection comes from the whole industry, when we turn every head from our farm and preserves in for testing it continually dates the health of each farm and gives a continuous record and a time line for infection if one should occur. Transport permits are the next link in the safety chain that give a day by day accurate inventory of each farm and a traceability in case if any occurrence. Since no live test is available for all stages of the disease the only way to be sure that all infected animals are dealt with is the removal of all contact animals, yes.... kill healthy animals to prevent the spread of disease ...archaic yes but there at this time is no other way. This system works if honest people follow the regulations and procedures deviation from the system for any reason, ideology, sloth or contempt endangers all around you who wish to protect their farms to the best of their ability. Enter those whose cavalier attitude, righteous independence and disdain for government regulation by moving animals without permits, from one jurisdiction to another but closed jurisdiction, farms and trophy ranches that fail or outright refuse to submit heads for testing ... are some of the greatest threats that face our industry.....and we as an industry are causing them. This is only compounded by government departments that will not enforce and defend the laws that protect our livelihoods.



What can happen when the regulations that protect us are ignored?.....

There was a deer farm that was successful and profitable they started selling deer to a new trophy ranch in 2005, the money was paid and all was good.... the animals were harvested the brain samples collected and stored in freezer and not sent in for testing, every year the same until 2008 this year some of the deer were different , they looked the same but carried CWD, they were hunted the samples collected and stored in the freezer and not sent in for testing. Meanwhile back on the deer farm excess does were being slaughtered or dumped heads not collected and the samples not sent in for testing. Fall of 2009 bucks are sold to the trophy ranch, hunted...no samples submitted but.... two does from my farm go to be live bred by a buck at the deer farm, ...... 2010 bucks are sold to different ranches deer are hunted, samples taken and submitted for testing..... positive for CWD. This is the reason for the system that protects our farms , if people are responsible the system works if not it hides problems that will only be found later and effect farms and people unnecessarily than if common sense is used rather than self entitlement. The result, my 20 best animals from 11 years of breeding were ordered destroyed by the CFIA and were all killed on February 28th. the test results came back today and wouldn't you know it .... all 20 were negative for CWD.

Sorry to hear this curtis!! That just goes to show what some will do to gain!! 1 person bends or breaks the rule and someone else pays the price!!