What is your farms purpose for A/I ?

Hotrod,

You don't know about the goldfish in the stock tank trick? I've had three daughters in a row and have a fourth on the way in a couple months. My Amish neighbor has 8 daughters & no boys. It's all in the ph of the drinking water man. Haha

Roger, I have to say I did make money at the start in the Breeder Market. But QUICKLY found its like throwing a hotdog down a hallway if you think you can maintain momentum in the Breeder Market without DEEP POCKETS. 


 


By saying it " crippled " my program...............Is that I sold does I should have kept and maintained MY "original focus " of what I wanted to produce. When my A/I missed and I had 32 doe fawns out of my back up buck...................Well you find out where you stand!


 


I think the "hatred" towards the "Breeder Market" is that the majority know your name and are all about helping you out.....................As long as you are buying from them and they are cashing your checks when that stops they usually head on to the next "Fish"!

Rodney,

If we got 100 male straws every time we collected, our breeder buck didn't die during the collection process, and we got 80% AI success after ward there is no question sexing is the way to go. I would like to see more input from those who have sent their collections off to have them sexed. I have heard more bad than good from the majority of those I know who have tried the process. Some have told me they had extremely high mortality in their fawns sired using sexed semen. Others were told they would get around 50 straws & they ended up getting 8 or the collection wasn't able to be sexed at all. How much was then paid for nothing or nearly nothing. I am still very skeptical of doing this on one of our bucks collections. More people have tried this now. I would like to hear if it's actually a good idea when we are being charged multiple times the cost to do cattle semen plus the fees associated with the collecting & shipping and the other risk involved. Glad for the edit feature on here. I have now searched and read a bunch of old post about sexing semen. I won't be doing it. I just got this fancy phone about a month ago.It's the first time I've ever had the internet, pardon.

I guess if you are satisfied with what doe you have then the sexed semen is maybe the way to go.  For those that want to improve their doe herd then sexed semen would not be the best route.  For me, I will likely be trying to improve my does as long as we are raising them.  My goal is to have all typicals(with stickers are fine) ready to shoot at 2.  My following goal is to have 200+ typical 2yo to sell.   

Whitetail Sanctuary915421398825601


 

I think the "hatred" towards the "Breeder Market" is that the majority know your name and are all about helping you out.....................As long as you are buying from them and they are cashing your checks when that stops they usually head on to the next "Fish"!


When I went through the divorce and ended up selling the majority of my deer that was an eye opening time for me as well. I quickly found out who my real friends were and who were the people who just wanted what I had or could give them. People I hung with at sales and normally spoke with on a regular basis no longer were available once I didn't have what they wanted. I suppose it is like that in all walks of life. It sure sucked though thinking these people were friends just to find out they weren't.

Roger,

I have been reading a lot of past topics and old post on this forum. The one where you posted and stated "if I were king this is how I would do it "is the best. There are still good people selling in the big sales and good buys in the breeder markets. I partnered with a friend from Mo and bought half interest in a doe from this years top30. He wanted to keep her in Indiana. She is Maxbo Ranger on a Thunderstorm doe with JB's sister on the bottom. She is lap ai'd to American Express. I gave $1,625 for half interest which is half the price he bought her there. She is dog tame. My partner will pay for all the bottle feeding and I will pay for her upkeep. We will be splitting AI or breeding fees. I am pretty confident she will make me enough to pay her bills and keep me enjoying my herd. I am sorry to here of your divorce. I have enjoyed reading your post on here. They have been enlightening!

Bell915571398890783



Roger,

I have been reading a lot of past topics and old post on this forum. The one where you posted and stated "if I were king this is how I would do it "is the best. There are still good people selling in the big sales and good buys in the breeder markets. I partnered with a friend from Mo and bought half interest in a doe from this years top30. He wanted to keep her in Indiana. She is Maxbo Ranger on a Thunderstorm doe with JB's sister on the bottom. She is lap ai'd to American Express. I gave $1,625 for half interest which is half the price he bought her there. She is dog tame. My partner will pay for all the bottle feeding and I will pay for her upkeep. We will be splitting AI or breeding fees. I am pretty confident she will make me enough to pay her bills and keep me enjoying my herd. I am sorry to here of your divorce. I have enjoyed reading your post on here. They have been enlightening!




Sounds like a good doe and a great deal Bell. You should do well with her congrats!


Thanks for the nice words about my postings. I just always tried to be helpful to others and speak what was on my mind. Not everything is what others always wanted to hear, but it was my opinions and as honest as could be.


The divorce was pretty hard on me. I was very much in love and I thought we had a great thing going. But everything happens for a reason I guess. As it turns out after some looking around I found another woman who is absolutely incredible. I could have never asked for a better woman than I have now. I am very very happy and consider myself pretty darn lucky. I have learned much about myself and about life the last few years. And as it turns out my ex and I are still really good friends. The whole episode was really a great blessing for me.


Take care and good luck with the coming fawning season!

Roger,


you have not answered your question, why do you AI?

jerrilee cave915681398914768



Roger,


you have not answered your question, why do you AI?




Well years back it was to stay involved and have some of the "hot item" stuff in the breeder market. However I always kept true to what I felt was proper line breeding though. Overall the top end stuff did well for me.


The last couple of years my A/I has been more about using bucks I wanted to breed with to make crosses I wanted to make despite what the "markets" think is right. I really couldn't care less if someone else thinks the offspring have value because I know the results are correct.


If I do anymore A/I at my place it will be solely to use some of the semen I have already in the tank because I know it produces what I am after and to make specific crosses. That said I suspect I won't be doing any A/I this coming fall as I have some young bucks I think will provide what I am looking for without the cost of drugs, CIDR's and the whole A/I process.

Think that's what we all hope for is to not have/need to AI.  As long as there are bucks out there I consider to be way superior I will use them as long as the cost is within reason.


One thing we should remember is that it does take all kinds.  One person likes wide and the other likes narrow.  I do not want cookie cutter deer that all look the same.  This is why we used 5 bucks to breed with this last year and if one does not produce like you would like you do not have all your eggs in one basket.  We are new enough we used one 2yo and 4 yearlings. All are bred differently.   Yearlings are a risk but if you know your production, pedigree and predictability you should be close.  Last year was our first crop of 2 yr olds.  Luckily we picked the beast of the group as a fawn and used him last year and this year. His fist son will be 2 this year and was born July 31 and is a hog for how late he was.   Time will tell how the other 4 will do but they are pretty good so far this year.

We haven't AI'd for several years. We have enough diversity in our herd to continue to mix it up. We also breed for typical looks and nontypical looks. Everyone's idea of the perfect deer is different and you find that out pretty quickly when you have a hunting ranch. So you need variety. No one comes back every year to shoot the same deer!

I think that's the reason most of the elk ranch guys only sell one trophy bull hunt per customer and don't have much repeat business. Most nice shooter bulls are 6x6 mainframes.

Roger, this is a cool thread. I started AI ing to improve my herd. I did not have a buck that I felt would accelerate what I was wanting to do. My focus the last 3-4 years has been my maternal doe lines, some more popular I guess than others but all are proven. AI has given me the ability to either introduce traits to that line or line breed the maternal side in some cases. We are just now in the position to start breeding with our own bucks on some of the does. I will probably continue to AI in the future but on a smaller scale as we continue to prove consistancy in what we are breeding. I will continue to AI I a certain amount targeting the breeding market but if something is hot it also has to be proven. Unfortunately those two things don't go together sometimes in the breeder market. Like some of the others posted on here I have a small group of does that wouldn't bring squat at a sale but everytime they give me buck fawns it's good $$. I have been AI ing those does cervical with less expensive very proven bucks until this past year when we live covered all of them with our own buck.

Greg M915941399033799



Roger, this is a cool thread. I started AI ing to improve my herd. I did not have a buck that I felt would accelerate what I was wanting to do. My focus the last 3-4 years has been my maternal doe lines, some more popular I guess than others but all are proven. AI has given me the ability to either introduce traits to that line or line breed the maternal side in some cases. We are just now in the position to start breeding with our own bucks on some of the does. I will probably continue to AI in the future but on a smaller scale as we continue to prove consistancy in what we are breeding. I will continue to AI I a certain amount targeting the breeding market but if something is hot it also has to be proven. Unfortunately those two things don't go together sometimes in the breeder market. Like some of the others posted on here I have a small group of does that wouldn't bring squat at a sale but everytime they give me buck fawns it's good $$. I have been AI ing those does cervical with less expensive very proven bucks until this past year when we live covered all of them with our own buck.




Hey Greg, Glad you like the topic. Right now is the calm before the storm (fawning) and I had been thinking about this AI stuff for a while now. To be honest I have a hard time understanding why so many folks are still doing AI so much. I figured there must be a good reason so I thought I would ask.


 


So here is a side question to those who are still reading this thread.


Let's say for a moment that sexed semen was available at a reasonable cost. Either your own buck or you bought sexed semen from someone else. Just to toss out a dollar amount as to what could be considered "reasonable" lets use say, $200 per straw. Considering that sexed semen apparently can only be done using Lap AI would you use it then if your just producing stocker bucks? Lap AI is not cheap, and does from what I have heard have its drawbacks. ( I have only ever done cervical at my farm over the years )


Now if anyone knows of sexed semen being packed at an amount that it can be reasonably used cervical I would like to hear about this as well. However I am sure mums the word on that topic the same as flushing embryos is a real hush hush topic.


 


Personally I would consider doing cervical AI each year if using sexed semen could be used and maintain a good success rate. I am pleased with my does herd (I don't need doe fawns) and would consider a way to fawn out less does per year but yet maintain the same level of buck fawns.

Roger,

I have heard a few people have used sexed semen cervicaly but I do not know the results. We have used it for 2 years and had good success with Lap AI. The whole problem with sexing semen is your initial investment and risk is much higher than conventional semen. Then if you are trying to sale it, it has to be priced less than conventional semen. It would all balance out if you could sale the female semen, but that is a hard sale. We used female semen on some of our does to get some crosses we wanted. Both bucks were XL sons that we used, so the does should be powerhouses. I would love to hear if anyone used sex semen cervicaly. It would reduce our cost, not only on the vet expense, but on the knockout meds also.

I've read several (many)heritability studies on antler traits and plan on reading as many new ones I as can find. Mass, body size, birth weight, beam length, number of tines, and the least heritable trait spread are commonly discussed. Why is the heritability of tine length rarely studied? What tines are you all specifically trying to breed for if you plan on using the breeders you currently have? I can't find any solid science to back it up but I think constant outcross is necessary to keep gaining tine length. One of my goals is to get longer and longer tines on the heads on my bucks? I don't feel like I can genuinely breed or AI with purpose when I don't understand the % of heritability influences of both the sire and dam. I am enjoying the discussion on AI with sexed semen very much. The whole process is something I am undecided about. The oldest bucks on our farm are coming 3 this month. I wouldn't consider sexing their semen until they had sons who are 3. I don't think any young bucks semen collection should be sexed because of a great pedigree or antler size. It would be an old fella on our farm if we ever sex a collection. He will be an old fella and not just a big fella on our farm. He will have lived to his ripe old age for a good reason. He will have sired many fantastic mature sons. It does sound like a better idea if doe could be run in the handler and AI'd transcervical with sexed straws without the cost and risk of anesthetics. I have witnessed some great doe aspirate upside down in the lap AI cart and know others who had their bladders punctured. Both ending in all but certain death. I have ask a bunch of other questions but would enjoy your input!

I am not sure of this but is sexed semen not packed the same as a 1/4cc regular straw?  

Roger,


There is a new machine that should be in use soon if not already to sex semen.  It is supposed to be much better than the technology used the past few years.  Maybe those straws will be packed tighter than the ones in the past.  It uses a dye to sex the semen instead of a magnetic field.

This was my experience with sexed semen a couple of years ago. I bought 2 does ai'ed with sexed semen. One doe took and the other did not. it was backed up with the buck the sexed semen was from. The doe that took threw a single doe fawn and the one that didn't take and was backed up threw 2 buck fawns. Gotta laugh!

Hershey's Huntin Haven916231399085493



This was my experience with sexed semen a couple of years ago. I bought 2 does ai'ed with sexed semen. One doe took and the other did not. it was backed up with the buck the sexed semen was from. The doe that took threw a single doe fawn and the one that didn't take and was backed up threw 2 buck fawns. Gotta laugh!




That right there is what you call some rare odds.