Your thoughts on this please

Padencreek1000561418143719

and the question no one seems to want to answer...what do I do with all the doe fawns each year?
I eat mine! Not ashamed of it, just like my family raises and eats beef cattle. My doe fawns get a good 4-6 month life then the ones I don't need are corralled into a separate pens along with any other adult does I don't need any more. Then my family, and friends of mine will take them when the freezers low or as needed. Why should I go kill wild does, which are in short supply anyway, when I have better tasting healthier does available to eat whenever I want? There is another option, not saying I do it, this is a public viewed forum so I won't directly point it out, but what do think dairy farmers do with their unwanted bull calves that they don't want to haul to the auction house right when they are born? It would seem cruel to most outsiders, but they are not paying the farmers feed bills. It would be SO NICE to be able to work with the state and be allowed to release our awesome genetic doe offspring into the wilds, but we all know that will NEVER HAPPEN.

It's the realities of farming (any livestock), it's our responsibilities. most times, no one is going to come wanting to buy all our doe fawns we need gone. We need to control the population in the best way we can, and look out for the best interest and health of the main herd.

Personally, I honestly cannot give doe fawns away which is my doing because I dont even bother worrying about pedigrees anymore. Why should I? My bucks are big enough for my buyers, and they don't tend to get smaller from year to year. I could look back in my records and write pedigrees, but I tend not to mess with selling fawns or does, and my shooter buyers don't ask for pedigrees, so I don't write them, lol.

I Was going to just PM this, I didn't want to make anyone upset with my suggestions, or get the post off topic. But then again I wanted to also let others know, there's no shame in eating a deer you raise, or doing what needs done to lower the numbers. I'll listen to the criticisms of outsiders or animal lovers when those critising start paying my feed for me.. I am sure I am not the only one that eats mine, They are tasty and good for you.

If the truth be told many farms put up a Preserve to get rid of unwanted does and doe fawns and not lower Their Farms........"Precieved Value"........Hurting future sales!


 


Matt, The ones of us who will "Survive" will be the ones who know what has to be done on a farm for survival!...............Most folks just see the glitz and the gloss they want to see!


 


I for one have seen ol timers.......Eliminate unwanted animals........those that came thru the Depression can tell any of you the "Actual Carrying Capacity" of who and what they could or could not feed!


 


Folks just don't ever wanna talk about this side of it............We have grown "soft" and think we can feed em all and save em all............If you don't believe it...........Just look at our Government!

Sorry if I have to do that to my doe fawns I will get out.  We are not talking about rodents here.  We breed them and bring them into this world and then ????.  I have more respect for life than that.  TO ME that is just totally wrong and I have no respect for anyone doing that.   They can go to the preserve and live or be harvested for meat.  Not any different than people drowning or suffocating kittens or pups. 

Jerrilee, I can respect your opinion on the topic. My wife has the same view and that is why like Matt we will be putting unwanted animals in the freezer.


But I know and you do to that it happens all the time rather we like it or not................It is how many are dealing with the problem!


 


It's also a problem many face with semen as Todd stated earlier on, Everyone feels the need to draw their buck and that's great but in today's market everyone has BIG Deer and that along with other things has hurt semen sales.


 


I know alot folks gripe about unfair Shooter prices and I admit some are not really playing Fair!


Supply and Demand seems to be the key word..................But IF we had not have had record EHD losses the last 2 years.........What would the prices have been this year ? :wacko:


 


"If Folks keep getting out............Those left will reap the profits of sticking in there"........ I'v been hearing that since 2008 ? is there really light at the end of the tunnel ? Hope and Prayers as still lived on and sent!


 


Not trying to be a "Donnie Downer"...........And speaking my mind has never been popular with folks............But I hope for better days...........With some LUCK I hope to have 20 Shooters for sale next fall.............that has been my goal since day one and my farms focus since 2008 when I realized the water in "Breeder Market" pool was to DEEP for me ..............I'm not sure my wife of 31 years is as "Optimistic" as some on where we may be headed ?

There are many problems with this industry. The first chupp sale we went to we bought a poncho/Amos doe from the gentleman that owns road rage. That day I was told by Kevin grace that you must run it like a businesses if you are going to make money. What I find really funny is that our industry doesn't run this industry like an industry. Can you tell me what the average 200” stocker sold for last year and how many were sold???? How can people make informed businesses decisions in this industry if there is NO data to show trends? This industry is run like a good ole boys club and as long as it is, we look like a bunch of idiots to those that we are trying to convince otherwise. No wonder we can't fight anything.

The hottest deer in the industry today is prolly Express. He has been bred to some off the most hyped doe lines in the country but isn't the largest typical mainframe he has sired to date is by a Thunderstorm doe? How many Thunderstorm doe would be juried into the industries top auctions? Lol

Bell1000741418182358



The hottest deer in the industry today is prolly Express. He has been bred to some off the most hyped doe lines in the country but isn't the largest typical mainframe he has sired to date is by a Thunderstorm doe? How many Thunderstorm doe would be juried into the industries top auctions? Lol




Thats why our..Industry..Is really a whole bunch of..Industries..all wrapped up in one.  The deer business has never really been ran as a. Whole. But a bunch of puzzle pieces in the big puzzle.

mike,


that's right and until our industry leaders gets our act together we are sitting ducks.  until egos get checked at the door it will never happen.


 


there is ABSOLUTELY no accountability in this industry. 


People get ripped of by the same people time and time again. 


people sell semen out of bucks a different buck than is pictured.


semen is packaged half what it should be or less  so they can get 150 straws a collection. 


people sell crappy semen and will not replace it.


people make up lots and put them in sales. know this for a fact 


people run up bids on their own lots using 8 bidder numbers.   My husband saw this with his own eyes.


I could go on and on.

Well I guess I am just foolish in my thinking. I was happy to promote the industry and share my knowledge with potential new folks, and sell breeding stock to them back when I truly believed that they could make back a profit in a reasonable amount of time. However I feel it is a lie to tell people that deer farming is a good business choice now.


The state of the industry has never been worse than it is today. More borders are closed to transport than ever before. Costs are higher than ever before. Prices of breeding stock is as low as they were in the mid 1990's, and prices for hunt stock are lower than they were at that time. And the real killer is gov regulations are at an all time high. The industry has no solid and unified plan to reverse these trends other than sticking our heads in the sand and hoping more people start to like us before the regulations completely choke us for good.


I think before anyone tells potential new people to go ahead and invest their savings, or worse yet borrow money to invest, they better take a long hard look at whether or not they themselves would start from scratch in the business right now. These potential new farmers are real people who work hard for their savings. They are not pawns in some game to try and make our industry look more mainstream.

jerrilee cave1000761418187175



mike,


that's right and until our industry leaders gets our act together we are sitting ducks.  until egos get checked at the door it will never happen.


 


there is ABSOLUTELY no accountability in this industry. 


People get ripped of by the same people time and time again. 


people sell semen out of bucks a different buck than is pictured.


semen is packaged half what it should be or less  so they can get 150 straws a collection. 


people sell crappy semen and will not replace it.


people make up lots and put them in sales. know this for a fact 


people run up bids on their own lots using 8 bidder numbers.   My husband saw this with his own eyes.


I could go on and on.




I could also add to your list but i believe what you said and what i have to add are cant be policed by any NADEFA or any other group. Those same things you wrote happens in the cattle industry also. Prob most ag related business really.  My problem is at the top i guess with all these new rules and no lawsuits from the top. I mean this industry has big money and can fight the big fight if things were put into action i believe. I spoke years ago about having something like a beef check off to raise funds for nothing but legal battles and lawyers. I mean how many industries can boast about have 7-8 auctions a year and pull 1-2-3 million in sales at every one?


Also if a decided % came right off the top of every sale in auction the guys that are running up and showing false numbers would curtail that activity because every number after every lot would be charged that %. The good ol boys club that bids each others animals up would break down fast.


 The members of an industry can only police themselves and the members are the only ones that can give the leader the tools to work with.  I think in this case both sides have failed. 


 But we are not dead yet and just like i showed the other day about a state that writes on a website that...They have a live test and can use it on THEIR animals with great results and then write in the next sentence that FARMERS do not have a reliable live test and animal movements and such have to stop......I cant believe a good lawyer cant bring that in front of a judge and show how wrong that is. Heck i have even turned some minds up here on a local hunting site by showing the two faced,double standards the are using. They still dont like high fence and whatever but after SEEING the proof of what states are doing....They agree that we are getting bent over! Now if this is true with one little website???????  Just like this Iowa case. If they won ANYTHING against the state then it needs to be shown all across the country just what that state did to those farms so other states and people see that its just not gunna fly!!

Hey guys. Sorry it's been some time. The state has put the coals to our feet. We have been up to our elbows in both lawsuits and now the state sent us an audit bill in the amount of more than $400,000 which was due this past november. Just so happens we received this bill the week we depopulated our herd and the gentleman conducting the audit graduated from Bloomfield highschool, where our preserve is located.


The state is taxing us on $5.5 million in free range hunts over the last 10 years, $550,000 per year. We own 40 acres outside the fenced preserve and have never sold a free range hunt. Too difficult to get tags for out of state people. They are taxing us on $1.5 million, what our ranch has been valued at, not what we paid for it. Had to provide receipts for lawn mowers, chainsaws, feeders, boat, farm equipment for the past 10 years or we would have to pay tax on it again. Try to run that one through your office.


The District judge did rule in our favor gor the Ag litigation, but I will not post the details on here. Too many watching this site. We are far from winning, but this was a nice bite out of the apple. It felt really good to see that the District judge in Iowa believes that we deserve due process. This news came at a time when I was beginning to believe there is no justice.


I will let you know when we get another ruling. When it is substantial I will post. For now I am going to hang on to this small win as we continue to fight for our property rights. Slow and steady....keep us in your prayers.


Rhonda

One step at a time. You are always in my prayers. I know how hard you work and how vested you have been in your businesses. It's not right to come back and tax you after you are told it wasn't supposed to be that way. I just pray for you that in the end the honest will prevail over the vindictive mindset the government has towards you. You need to be awarded for the pain and suffering these people have caused you.