Not so good news !!!!!!

Awesome read Fars...thanks!

I agree Fars...good read...and thanks for posting!

Dennis,

If you could pm me with the people's names that have pull over at the Dept. of Ag that are deer farmers that would be great. I would love for them to be apart of our Board of Directors of the PDFA. They, if having the "pull" you speak of could be influential in our policy shaping of our CWD program. We are always in need of good people for the hard work being done.

All diseases are viral or bacterial, why would CWD be any different. When some accept that premise they might actually figure out a vaccine.

Josh, I would rather not give names as it is not my place.......however, you may want to speak with the Dept. Of Ag yourself as they were very open when they told me who's who in our state.......not goin to make this a debate Josh.....I am just speaking the truth......and again, I am not trying to cause any division ....my advise earlier was for Antershed and it was meant to be helpful for him as I am sure he and many others ...as do we all....have an uphill battle to climb....I hope you find the people you need to to shape up your CWD program Josh......

ddwhitetails said:

I hope you find the people you need to to shape up your CWD program Josh......

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Josh I didn't know you are starting your own CWD program??? Will this be different than the rest of the PA deer farmers program???

Oh that was hilarious Roger.....guess I needed to spell it out a little better for you.....I am done with this stupid stuff....we have tons of problems we are facing in PA and if I think I can help by giving my advise to someone then I will.....if others don't like it.....I'm sorry.....I really don't care.....but I am not playing these silly little *** games anymore.....

Dennis,

I am honestly looking for people who want to help. This is something that can be helpful for all farmers in PA, including Antlershed as it is our CWD program. I guess what I am getting at Dennis is why not help. Maybe you could contact those people and ask if they would be willing to call me to further discuss options we have. That way you will not have to mention anyone publicly or in a pm to me. They would ultimetly be choosing to help or not.



I really would like to help the farms that are affected in Blair and Bedford counties as I know some off them personally. Dennis thanks for any help you can assist with.

Josh,

I would love to help......I can only tell you things that were told to me........whether they hold water for sure I do not know...but they were told to me from Dept of Ag people......but I certainly don't want to get anyone in trouble ......I can give you a call tomorrow if you would like......

I would appreciate that and look forward to it.

Interesting fars.

I have seen these studies before. The prion cause is still a theory. I have read a report that it is spread environmental,but by ticks and mites.





I got this in an email today. An inter-office communication out of Colorado Division of Wildlife. Look at the date.

Gary

Josh said:

Dennis,

I am honestly looking for people who want to help. This is something that can be helpful for all farmers in PA, including Antlershed as it is our CWD program. I guess what I am getting at Dennis is why not help. Maybe you could contact those people and ask if they would be willing to call me to further discuss options we have. That way you will not have to mention anyone publicly or in a pm to me. They would ultimetly be choosing to help or not.



I really would like to help the farms that are affected in Blair and Bedford counties as I know some off them personally. Dennis thanks for any help you can assist with.

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Does anyone even know if there is going to be any other problems with farms in that area? I know Ny will not take a deer from a farm within 50 miles of a case of CWD but its been that way forever. Some may be jumping the gun here as these were wild cases.

Four Seasons Whitetails said:

Does anyone even know if there is going to be any other problems with farms in that area? I know Ny will not take a deer from a farm within 50 miles of a case of CWD but its been that way forever. Some may be jumping the gun here as these were wild cases.

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My FIL is a vet, and he said that some exports one of his clients had planned is a no-go because he resides too close to the original case. Given that, I would not be a bit surprised if any farms within that radius were not allowed to export.

What now Ill is under fire for their hunting preserves too !! I'm telling you , by the time we ever get off our a$$ 's and do anything to protect this business it's going to be way to late !! Just my opinion !!

ddwhitetails said:

however, you may want to speak with the Dept. Of Ag yourself as they were very open when they told me who's who in our state

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Dennis, don't believe everything you hear. Unless someone told you they were bribed, we all are under the same rules.

fars said:

There is a lot of evidence that points to you being wrong. Prion diseases are most likely a result of a virus.



“People hypothesize that prion proteins are infectious, but they’re probably part of the disease, not the infectious agent itself,” Manuelidis said.



http://www.global-sisterhood-network.org/content/view/1565/59/

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I'd like nothing more than to be wrong about prions.



To be "devils advocate" again. The virus theory forgets that we haven't found a good way to "denature" prions even after they have left the infected animal or that animal is dead. Prions survive to reinfect after treatments which would destroy all forms of life including a virus. We can burn them for several hours or we can render down animal products & sterilise these to no avail ,we can fallow pasture for two decades, & not destroy prions. Viruses can be killed relatively easily & I dont think we'd have seen the madcow outbreak in the UK if BSE was just a virus, as the rendering of the animal protien would have destroyed a virus & broken the chain of reinfection.



Sharkey

Jeff, I know what you are saying and yes you are right we are all under the same rules.....however, some are stretched and or overlooked sometimes for some and not others.......not saying this is happening now especially with the CWD issues.......I just pray we can all get through this without more and more regulations.........it's all just very frustrating to say the least.....

Sharkey,

I was importing cattle from England and Belgium in the early 1990's. I was told by government officials at meetings when I was there, that the reason the cattle in England got BSE, was during the fuel crisis. The rendering companies turned down the temperature they rendered products at by approximately 20 degrees, in an attempt to save costs. In England they rendered sheep brain and spinal products into cattle feeds. They had been doing this for years, but the cattle BSE never occurred until they lowered temperatures of rendering. I heard this explanation many times from the English, and also from the Belgiums when I was importing from them.



I know what you are saying on the the prions destruction, but if the temperature was as high as they say, wouldn't the rendered products be destroyed as well? If my memory serves me correctly, the temperature they where talking about was around 180 degrees, not even close to destroying prions. What I heard in my experience makes the virus vector a more reasonable theory. After 30 some years of prion research, they are still basing scientific knowledge off of theory.



A question we really need to ask is, Where did all this genetic research material go, from research farms and Universities? Back in the 1960's through the 1980's, they didn't understand the destructive value of prions. Did these materials go to local landfills? Some I understand where feed to mink for research. The digester at Ames really wasn't up and going until the 1990's. Our cattle went to Ames to be destroyed. We where told that Ames was the only lab in the Midwest that could dispose of the material. So my question is, where did this material go before then?



If prions are the cause. A real vector that makes the most sense to me is the taxidermy route. How many heads have come back from the Rockies over the past 40 years? A lot of these heads or carcasses where probably thrown in a fence line somewhere.



The problem I see is they are destroying an industry over something they really don't understand , and probably caused.



Gary

G O Whitetails said:

Interesting fars.

I have seen these studies before. The prion cause is still a theory. I have read a report that it is spread environmental,but by ticks and mites.



I got this in an email today. An inter-office communication out of Colorado Division of Wildlife. Look at the date.

Gary

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Next fall, im begining a graduate study on ticks in relation to captive deer. Glad some one brought this up. Look forward to sharing more information about the project soon.

G O Whitetails said:

Sharkey,





If prions are the cause. A real vector that makes the most sense to me is the taxidermy route. How many heads have come back from the Rockies over the past 40 years? A lot of these heads or carcasses where probably thrown in a fence line somewhere.



The problem I see is they are destroying an industry over something they really don't understand , and probably caused.



Gary

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There will be many vectors, including taxidermy (even brain tanning could be a risk).Using urine as a lure should be considered high risk too. It is the hypocrisy which causes division & the delays in action, eg, QDMA's reaction to this,by denying hunter involvement & blaming everyone else.



Stay staunch & play the ball/CWD, & not the players. I doubt there will be many stakeholders who have not contributed in some way to the spread of this disease.



The authorities next move is always to do "something" that "something" may be a complete waste of time, but they will feel the pressure to look like they are doing "something".



The best course of action will be to unite all the stakeholders (not the QDMA style division) & to make sure the "something" is based upon the best info avaliable. The ACA is a great start for deer farming (the rest of the world considers elk as deer,not just whitetail) & needs to be up to its bottom lip in every blue about CWD ,but maintain the focus on an abatement action & management of this disease not a witch hunt.



The info & discussion on this forum about this disease is very good, if only the same could now be done with all the other stakeholders , & without bias, then a management plan addressing "actual risk" could be closer.



Sharkey