Your thoughts on this please

Given the current state of the deer industry I am wondering what thoughts are on this being posted on facebook today?

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I guess you can think that way if you are Keith warren.... a little misleading

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Given the current state of the deer industry I am wondering what thoughts are on this being posted on facebook today?
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I believe he is doing and saying what he thinks is best for everyone but i think i know what you are thinking and i would have to agree with you. Untill things get turned around and we can farm and high fence hunt like all american people should be able to i'm not so sure we need more hands in the cookie jar at this time!

No mention that most current deer farmers are being regulated out of business by the current standards as they are written? I don't know if it is fair to portray such a glamorous view of our industry in its current state. Who is it that decides on a case by case basis where trace-backs or trace-out stop? Shouldn't new deer farmers be made a where of potential exposure issues they will face when buying the animals for their herd? I still don't fully understand how all the quarantine policy works and until I do we will only be adding new genetics to our herd by way of AI.

true somewhat most farms are being bought out right by subdivisions builders houses you seen the bumper sticker support your local farmer or watch  the houses grow  T&S

He is also from Texas guys! They still have a very strong market.

Not good. Truthfully, The only way things get remotely better at this point ( in my area) is if many farms quit. Supply and demand. And right now the supply still FAR outweighs the demand. I mean, I wish everyone could live their dream and raise them and make money, but now a days at this moment there seems to be not many doing so, so to a new guy I would have to truthfully, "save the trouble". I know it varies from place to place, or state to state. But there is just not much money in it at this time, at least in my part of the world. The supply around here is still out weighing demand, and my part of the state it's tough to sell out of state because of regulations resulting from CWD positives ( in both wild and captive herds) I know there are some areas that shooter sales are still ok, and that's great. Hopefully things get better here, those that tough it out will see better days eventually.

I did not mean to make the above post sound like I want farms to quit, that is the last thing I want. Those who raise deer are living their dream, I hate to see people's dreams get smashed. I just used it as an example. However I do believe new farms that show up around here, will most likely struggle, plain and simple.

I know that some feel that money can still be made selling breeding stock to new people. Back when I was a Top 30 consignor things in the industry were going well. New people could invest money in deer and turn a profit. I enjoyed helping new people get started. I was willing to guide them to try and help them be profitable. These days I in good conscience can't tell anyone there is money to be made starting out in deer. A coworker of mine who lives in Ohio desperately wants to raise deer. I told him absolutely no way should he start raising deer. It is one thing for us who have the fences, feeders, water systems, permits, and animals to keep going. The money is already invested so if there is any profit at this point then sure, stay in it. But to start from scratch at this time is not good business sense. I think it is just wrong to mislead folks just to gain a profit. At this point the industry should really focus on gaining a higher percentage of hunters who have a desire to use high fence ranches. Also the industry needs to get our message out to the general public that we are not the reason for CWD.

Acceptance starts with being considered mainstream and I think we are slowly getting there.m we aren't a novelty! Keith is right about deerfarming being an alternative. We need to present ourselves as a good thing!

I agree with Wild Rivers. The demand for hunting is higher than ever. The wild deer herds get worse and the "Value" of what we offer gets better every year. The government is terrified of our businesses because it is gaining in popularity!!! And we may end up being forced out by our insane government but I won't go without a hell of a fight. And we plan on winning! At this time we are doing the opposite of everyone else and expanding (We Probably have rocks in our heads). Of course I can easily say that because I have an easy end market. But I look at the elk market. It hIt a low about 10 years ago and everyone got out. Now I can't find any bulls and if I do they are about twice what they were. I wish I had kept my elk herd. The hunters amazingly will pay it. They have moved up in price because of the low supply. If there was ever a time to be buying great genetics it is now. The question you should ask yourself is do you have an end market in your state and in your area. Because of the crazy government some do and some do not. And are you willing to risk and fight for what you do. Its not for everyone. Never has been. Its a tough business and very very time consuming. If you want to maximize the money you make per hour, do something else. If you want something you can really enjoy that is incredibly interesting, deer farming is still great. The government is a constant problem. If you are not willing to fight, we don't want you or need you in the industry. I'm not even going to get into all that here. But I will be honest with most people that want to get into it and tell them it shouldn't be for the money. The goal should be a fun hobby that has the potential to turn into some money. I still have a few of my closest friends in the business that are making some decent money each year in stocker buck  sales. I know that because I'm writing the checks! I could write about these topics for hours but need to get back to the hunters. I just wanted to post to say its not all doom and gloom. Most of what I read here is absolutely true. But we need to be more positive about whats still great about our business. We need to recruit quality people who want to fight. I know Keith is one of the greatest assets to our industry that we could ever have! He is just being positive. We could all use a little more of that!

If you knew nothing bout this industry it would be much easier to buy into it. For Example.  You tell a guy he can buy 5 does at $800 each. AI with sexed semen.  Then you can sell your two year old offsping buck for $2,500 to $3,000 each.   Make it clear to them they are only in the shooter market.He could make $15,000 to $25,000 per year as a hobby with his family and pay for nice toys and vacation AND get to be around deer. That is still a realistic scenario. We all remember the days of getting $8,000 and $10,000 for those shooters and feel it is not worth it today. 

Sam , one of the reason for the elk price being strong, is that the new Federal Program stopped about 3/4 of the Canadian herds that used to ship to the U.S., they were disqualified.  Thus severely dropping supplies.


In the last 2 years we have lost 20% of our cervid herds in Minnesota.  The elk people tell me we are going through what they went through about 7-8 years ago.  We probably are in a market correction.  Our industry grew fast, and now we are finding a equilibrium.  I agree with all you.


 


Good news though.  Rhonda Brakke called me yesterday and they won their district court case against the state.  This is great news for them and the industry.  These victories will set legal precedents for us all.  

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Sam , one of the reason for the elk price being strong, is that the new Federal Program stopped about 3/4 of the Canadian herds that used to ship to the U.S., they were disqualified.  Thus severely dropping supplies.


In the last 2 years we have lost 20% of our cervid herds in Minnesota.  The elk people tell me we are going through what they went through about 7-8 years ago.  We probably are in a market correction.  Our industry grew fast, and now we are finding a equilibrium.  I agree with all you.


 


Good news though.  Rhonda Brakke called me yesterday and they won their district court case against the state.  This is great news for them and the industry.  These victories will set legal precedents for us all.  




Yes great news and that case needs to be put on here and go public.  I know a few arses i would love to shove that news and victory up, here in Ny. Please post or link if possible.  Albany can always use some good reading material...

I told Rhonda to post it.  I know she has been terrible busy on this court case.

yes but market is getting slower and cheaper T&S

This is a little of the real world a producer faces without considering all the bloody knuckles and his time.

What is the average cost to lap AI?

How much for a handling facility?

How much for the meds for tranquilizing and reversal?

.How much for darts and a dart gun?

What is the average charge for travel the AI tech charges?

What is the average cost of a straw of sexed semen?

What if AI day comes and the sexed semen is bad?

What is the average conception rate using sexed semen?

How many doe die after being lap AI'ed?

How much for the yearly up keep of each doe?

How much for the yearly upkeep of each buck?

What is the average mortality rate for our bucks under normal farm conditions?

What about EHD losses?

Will 2,500-3,500 for what are left even balance the books?

How many bucks will actually be born and how many will realistically make it to 2 years old?

How much profit will be left for the farmer if our bucks are sold at 2 years old when these realistic scenarios are considered and these questions are ask?

Bell, you have proposed vaild questions.Unfortunately, most deer farmers do not learn from others deer farmers mistakes. We have an Cerival AI business and AI does for clients in PA, Ohio, Indiana, Texas, missouri, Mississippi and Louisiana. Our business keeps growing every year due to the factors that are involved with LAP AI. Some of our biggest clients have LAP Ai'd in years past, only to get poor conception rates, death loss from capture myopathy, dissappointing results from sexed semen. These clients have all switched back to cervical AIing and are very satisfied with their results from splitting straws cervically in the chute, without the added expense of tranquilization and LAP fees. Also, with the price of semen at an all time low , does anyone really need to split a straw into more than 2 does?

and the question no one seems to want to answer...what do I do with all the doe fawns each year?

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and the question no one seems to want to answer...what do I do with all the doe fawns each year?




Yes we all have to make some hard calls at times being farmers.