calcium carbonate

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Scrapelineranch

Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
352
Location
north, Hopkins Co., Tx.
W/o mentioning any names (both great people)...where I buy a lot of my feed I have been asked why I don't top dress my feed with calcium carbonate. One is a salesman and the other a very sucessfull breeder/preserve owner. Any reasons I shouldn't in any of your opinions?
 
I think it will hurt your reputation in the long run. But do what you want and good luck
 
Scrapelineranch said:
W/o mentioning any names (both great people)...where I buy a lot of my feed I have been asked why I don't top dress my feed with calcium carbonate. One is a salesman and the other a very sucessfull breeder/preserve owner. Any reasons I shouldn't in any of your opinions?
Click to expand...



Scrape,

I think topdressing dicalcium phosphate, or more preferably a balanced chelated mineral blend, would be a better choice as it would be a balanced source of minerals. Then again, you also run the risk of possible toxic overloads, repressed immune systems, as well as many other things if over-feeding minerals.



Micro and Macro mineral levels is a delicate balancing act in formulating a complete feed ration. Adding too much of one mineral inhibits absorption and utilization of others.



Just my opinion,





John







.
 
Is that the name of this "enhancer" everybody is using?

Kinda sounds like HGH in baseball.
 
Then why would it hurt your reputation? And what would feeding calcium do? I must be completly stupid to this one, so I will drop it.
 
I agree with Reed on this one. How would this hurt anyones reputation? Aren't we in the business to grow antlers on our bucks? Aside from giving our deer anything that is illegal to obtain, I would think we would be in our best interest to give these bucks whatever it takes for them to grow the maximum antler growth each year. I also agree that it can be different minerals or additives for each individual deer.



I also agree that we should not put any of these animals health in jeopardy.
 
I just meant that the enhancer that some use is supposed to shorten the deeds life span. For example a 3 year old would be considered lucky to have. Not trying to start anything just my 2 cents
 
I will stick with the girl I took to the dance.



Corn

Oats

Beet pulp

Roasted soybeans

Sunflower seeds

A 38% dairy cow protein pellet.

Yeast

Limestone

Some 1 to 1 dairy cow mineral.

Some vitamins.

Some flavoring.

Molasses to hold it all together.



Simple, easy and nothing to hide. Our bucks don't need an ( * ) next to their name:)

Buy with confidence that what you get from us is real, and not real over hyped.
 
I have to agree with John on this one! I know that some fawns, and we have 1 or 2 every year, get to much calcium they can't absorb phosphorous and you get phos. depletion and their teeth fall out and their gums get infected. Gone untreated death. Too much of a good thing isn't always good! I've seen people talk about it on here before and said this same thing but was shot down. We treat with phosphorous pills from the health food store crushed and added to bottle. Don't know what others do, think they probably use the miracle drug draxxin!! Roger heard if you put calcium on your cereal it will grow hair. ZZ
 
Roger, It sounds like your feed and mine are very similar. I agrees with you also ZZ, we don't put anything out of the ordinary in our feeds. My deer may not be the biggest ones out there, but they darn sure are healthy. I don't push the limits on minerals or calcium on our bucks. We like our bucks to be around for a while.
 
ZZ, I heard you comb calcium through your beard:eek::eek::eek:

I am comfortable with my lack of hair. Fact is I wish what does grow would stop coming back every time I shave it off:mad:



wvdeerman, I would assume many feed what you and I feed. It is just a plain old simple mix. Nothing special or secretive about it. Interesting how silent some become when this topic comes up though isn't it???:rolleyes:
 
I do have one question. A lot of guys put sunflower seeds in their feed mixes. I always have those held out of my feed. It seems like the blue jays and the squirrels get them all anyways. I always hold out the sunflower seeds and replace with extra roasted soy beans. The soybeans are cheaper anyways. But my question is, could I be cheating my deer out of anything by not puting the sunflowers in the feed?



Roger, in your feed mix you list limestone. Is that just plain lime or something else? and how much?



I have learned a lot from you guys. I really appreciate your help. Earlier in this thread, I agreed with the clacium and growing as much antler as possible. I was meaning within reason and health of the animal. I do not agreed with an over abundance of chemicals that shortens the deer's life. I also still agree that a 200" typical is still the threshold that is a standard for our industry. Not many guys producing those on a regular basis.
 
My understanding on sunflower seeds has always been it gives the deer a nice looking coat. I am sure it does more than that though. Probably fiber also.



The limestone I mentioned is called "Free Flo Limestone" on the feed mills sheet. In a 1,000lb batch there is 4 lbs. My understanding is that it is a cheap form of calcium to go along with the 1 to 1 mineral. Apparently many of the diary feeds use it as a cheap form of calcium also. I don't think in that form it is as easily absorbed. Maybe John knows more about what is absorbed best.



My mix was put together by Gene Flees for me about 4 years ago. Gene seems to know a thing or two about deer;) And I can honestly say that after just a few months of switching to the mix we could see a difference in the bodies of our deer.
 
I agree roger......nothing like growing the deer the way they were intended to be grown........chemical free.....i know what a lot of these guys are using to grow their abnormally huge deer ....I should let the cat out of the bag....but then that would mean a lot of deer would suffer in the long run.......Grow them with good genetics.....and good feed....forget the enhancer if it is going to limit the length of their life.......i am kind of in a wait and see what happens to some of these deer mode right now........I can't think the enhancer is good for them........steriods sure aren't good for humans!! Some of these bucks are to the point of not even looking natural...(probably cause they are not natural) I'm not jealous of anyone and I'm happy for many of these guys that have these awesome animals I just hope they put their animals health before their bank account...meaning the helath of their herd should be ther most important and the top priority of everyones farm. The good Lord put these great animals on this earth for us to take care of (not take advantage of) and that should be our main goal. You take care of your animals right....they will take care of you!!
 
IndependenceRanch said:
My understanding on sunflower seeds has always been it gives the deer a nice looking coat. I am sure it does more than that though. Probably fiber also.
Click to expand...



That's pretty much right on the money. Black Oil Sunflower Seeds offer high levels of Acid Detergent Fiber as well as Neutral Detergent Fiber. They are also high in bypass protein.







IndependenceRanch said:
The limestone I mentioned is called "Free Flo Limestone" on the feed mills sheet. In a 1,000lb batch there is 4 lbs. My understanding is that it is a cheap form of calcium to go along with the 1 to 1 mineral. Apparently many of the diary feeds use it as a cheap form of calcium also. I don't think in that form it is as easily absorbed. Maybe John knows more about what is absorbed best.
Click to expand...



Basically, limestone is the feed mills version of calcium carbonate. Ask specifically for calcium carbonate or a higher level of calcium and more than likely you will have feed grade limestone added to your feed.



As Roger said, it isn't as easily absorbed as other forms of chelated calcium supplements such as calcium aspartate, calcium lactate, calcium citrate, calcium gluconate, calcium orotate, calcium ascorbate and calcium malate, but is still a reasonable source of calcium for livestock.



Hope this helps answer your questions....



John





.
 
John Swank said:
That's pretty much right on the money. Black Oil Sunflower Seeds offer high levels of Acid Detergent Fiber as well as Neutral Detergent Fiber. They are also high in bypass protein.











Basically, limestone is the feed mills version of calcium carbonate. Ask specifically for calcium carbonate or a higher level of calcium and more than likely you will have feed grade limestone added to your feed.



As Roger said, it isn't as easily absorbed as other forms of chelated calcium supplements such as calcium aspartate, calcium lactate, calcium citrate, calcium gluconate, calcium orotate, calcium ascorbate and calcium malate, but is still a reasonable source of calcium for livestock.



Hope this helps answer your questions....



John





.
Click to expand...



Hello John Can you pm me with an email address or a phone number to contact you? I tried to PM you on this site but for some reason, it won't let me PM anyone..?? Thanks



Chad
 
John, could I then, or should I then use a form of calcium that is more readily absorbed than the Free Flo Limestone and then to maintain a balanced ratio cut back on the total amount used?

I just want to be sure not to jackup my ratios from where they are now. My deer are healthy and I prefer to keep them that way.

Also is it possible that using this "new form" of calcium is just a better way of getting absorbed calcium into the body, and allowing the grower to cut back on the total intake? Provided of course they are keeping the phos and such balanced then.
 

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