I too would like to thank all those who put in those endless hours of labor to help out our industry. We need more people like Charly and Laurie who will take a stand and put in the time for whats right for the cervid industry . I don't understand the division here amoung us ! How can some not think working for the betterment of what we all enjoy to do , raiseing deer or elk is not a good thing ? When I read all this bitching it makes me sort of wish I'd be raising something else and wouldn't see all the bullcrap that goes on amoung us . Don't we ALL want the same thing ? Don't we want rules we can actually follow without killing our animals and make a small profit at best ? How can we not all want that ,and how can we not all see the reg's and rules are way out of hand and need to be fixed ? Gosh sakes , I'm an American and I should have the RIGHT to raise a dang deer if I so choose to ! Thanks again to those that do the right thing here !!
Tim Condict said:
Thanks Tim and Shawn and those that have been straight forward with the industry right from the very beginning of this issue. I appreciate all of the time and energy you guys have invested on our behalf. Keep up the good work!
Joined Apr 2009
1,136 Posts | 0+
Bedford, PA
Autry said:
Autry,
With all do respect. You picking sides and keeping the division going in our industry has led to NOTHING positive... in case you haven't noticed.
The rest of this "rant" is focused upon all of us in our industry:
It's time for some straight talk here, and I have no problem removing the filter in an attempt to regain some sort of common sense and brother/sisterhood for our industry!
Instead of acting like we are still in grade school... why not thank EVERYONE who's put forth their time and effort for the betterment of our industry? Why keep up this ridiculous effort to take SIDES? Why is there such an effort to continue this line of division amongst us? BTW - I already know the answers to these rhetorical questions, and frankly it makes me a little sick to my stomach. I'm well aware that there are people from various organizations that are attempting to gather more troops in "their" camp, while alienating others... STOP IT!
If for some reason you're not capable of such an equitable stance, then maybe it's time to keep some of your vapid comments to yourself.
There are many... and I mean MANY farmers in our industry that are tired of the petty, sarcastic, and frankly quite immature posts that you and others have been a part of lately. Take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself one questions - are my motives for the betterment of our entire industry? Or am I hear to create waves of division that help no one in the long run? If you're honest, you already know the answer.
There are hundreds/thousands of deer farmers across the country that read these threads on a daily/weekly basis. There are also many people outside of our industry (some who would like nothing better than to see us put out of business) that follow us here. My question is this... what message do we want to send? We are very small industry. Yes, we can be powerful despite our size, but not at the current rate of the divisive commentary thats been observed as of late.
I am asking all of you... all of US, to get our sh!t together and become ONE during this critical time in our industry. We are supposed to be brothers and sisters with a common goal for the love of the outdoors, private property rights, and most importantly the love of whitetails and other cervid species. Can we please start acting like it?
Please stop the egotistical posturing and be happy for any group that gets us across the goal line. You don't always have to be the star QB... sometimes executing the perfect block is more rewarding than being the MVP.
Michael,
Couldn't have been said better.......Thanks for the post......these have been my feelings as well!! Ban together and let's focus our efforts in a positive, productive manor!!
Couldn't have been said better.......Thanks for the post......these have been my feelings as well!! Ban together and let's focus our efforts in a positive, productive manor!!
Joined May 2009
2,369 Posts | 0+
Chillicothe, Missouri
Thank you for the post, Mike. I am so tired of the folks who are trying to discredit Charly and I for their own personal agendas. People have no idea the amount of time we have personally put into this flawed document to try and make it industry friendly. There is no words to describe this document other than aweful and we are still not done. I was very upbeat yesterday until we started to hear from other industry folks who also took the time to review the entire document. There is still so much to fix and it seems like it will never end. All it takes is one word to change the meaning of a sentence and sometimes that one word is very detrimental....if you do not read the document line by line it is very easy to miss some very important language. Quite frankly, both Charly and I are very tired of reading and re reading this highly flawed document. We were getting a lot of help from Eric Mohlman but last week his mother was admitted to the hospital and last night she passed away so he has been out of commission...our thoughts and prayers are with him and his family.
Most recently, Todd Landt, Rhonda Brakke and Gary Olson have read through the revised document and offered some very good suggestions, so I personally want to thank them for their time and effort they put into helping!
Most recently, Todd Landt, Rhonda Brakke and Gary Olson have read through the revised document and offered some very good suggestions, so I personally want to thank them for their time and effort they put into helping!
Laurie Seale said:
Very grateful for you ALL....thanks again!! Prayers are being sent for Eric!!
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
Laurie Seale said:
I will have to say this. I also am done with this back and forth but pulling no punches...Where is the working group. Why is it all of a sudden it is now just you and we. Where is us. Where is nadefa on this. They say dont take sides well i also agree to a point but i also believe there are other very important people being left out of this fight that have skin in this game also. So why dont someone step up and tell us why the seperation!
Mike, there is no separation...Shawn has been getting all of the documents right along with Charly and Eric so don't try to insinuate he has been left off.
Laurie
Laurie
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
Laurie Seale said:
No insinuating anything. I do not believe i have seen any of your posts with one word of shawn or nadefa. I believe i asked the question days ago and recieved no reply!
Joined Apr 2009
1,136 Posts | 0+
Bedford, PA
Four Seasons Whitetails said:
Shawn, Eric and Charlie make up the CWD working group. What more is there to say?
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
WillPenn Whitetails said:
Thats just it Mike. There might not be as many questions if all names that are included, are included and givin the credit they deserve. Not just a select few names every post! Some want to make sure the best in the game is involved and that does not seem to ever be shown!
Four Seasons Whitetails said:
Laurie has been on here posting updates. From my understanding shawn was busy working on some other things last week. Since there was a deadline some of the others on the working group worked on the biggest part of last week. Shawn has been kept in the loop working on the revistions as well. To the best of my knowledge shawn has a deerfarmer account as well and can get on here to post updates. EVERYONE is working together, now leave it ALONE!!!!
Joined Apr 2009
1,136 Posts | 0+
Bedford, PA
Four Seasons Whitetails said:
Did you read my post #124? You are on the ACA calls, you are certainly well informed of the current state of the CWD working group for our industry and who is a part of it. Why do you feel the need to throw daggers and jump on everyone that doesn't say things EXACTLY as you would like to see them written? And WHY TAKE SIDES???
You've proven your point over and over again on where you stand. We all know where you stand. So why pick people's posts apart and continue the bickering? In your last post you said that you were done with the "back and forth"... well, it certainly doesn't seem like it.
Lastly, I am not here to engage you on some long, drawn our "debate" over an internet forum. I have neither the time nor the inclination to be part of such things. I am asking you... please stop the pettiness, please stop the attacks, and please stop driving greater division among us.
If you refuse, then that is obviously your right and choice. You've stated many times that you will say what's on your mind and not pull punches. But I ask you... to what end? How does this help all of us? Any of us? Please take a moment and think about this before responding.
If for some reason you are one of those people that really get off on forum debates (trust me I've seen my share), then I can assure you it will not continue with me. I've seen enough drama for one night - scratch that... one year!
Have a good night.
The main issue here is not about taking sides or who gets credit for what. The issue is about being truthful about what's happening behind the scenes.
I have been in this business since 1980 and I have never before seen this industry so divided.
While some are doing all they can to resolve the problems in this industry that threatens our way of life, others see this as a personal opportunity. There have been so many misleading and untruthful statements made and it is further dividing the industry. Even the title of this thread is misleading. The industry has not truly united.
I have been attacked and called a spy for exposing those untruthful statements and even threatened to be sued. Those that know me know that I won't back down when the going gets rough and they also know I didn't back down over 20 years ago when a government wildlife agency tried to run over me, threatening me with $250,000.00 in fines and threatening to confiscate many of my animals. The court case lasted more than 15 years and I paid no fines and lost no animals.
I believe in standing up for the truth and for what's right and I won't back down from a couple of people that make threats to sue.
I have been in this business since 1980 and I have never before seen this industry so divided.
While some are doing all they can to resolve the problems in this industry that threatens our way of life, others see this as a personal opportunity. There have been so many misleading and untruthful statements made and it is further dividing the industry. Even the title of this thread is misleading. The industry has not truly united.
I have been attacked and called a spy for exposing those untruthful statements and even threatened to be sued. Those that know me know that I won't back down when the going gets rough and they also know I didn't back down over 20 years ago when a government wildlife agency tried to run over me, threatening me with $250,000.00 in fines and threatening to confiscate many of my animals. The court case lasted more than 15 years and I paid no fines and lost no animals.
I believe in standing up for the truth and for what's right and I won't back down from a couple of people that make threats to sue.
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
kurthumphrey said:
From your understanding???? So it sounds like you are getting more info behind the scenes then is posted on a public site! Not Shocked!
If we just ignore the negative comments going forward no matter how ignorant they may be....maybe ......THE SILLINESS WILL STOP! Worth a try folks.....they can't argue with themselves.....
All, See here is the big problem. Myself or noone else I know of are getting behind the scenes info from Shawn or NADeFA and prestageing the outcomes of the phone calls. I don't call people and try to get them on my side. I will say that I have been privy to many emails that have been sent with many of them attacking me personally and a lot attacking Shawn. I also know of phone calls being made about me and actual attempts to keep me off of the calls, just because I don't agree on how we proceed to the end. In some peoples opinion we can only be united and right if we agree with their position, send money and don't ask any questions. Some of those emails are actually pretty funny and I am not a guy that holds a grudge very long so when we win this fight we can all be friends again. The funny thing about all these emails is they are sent to me by a spy who is in the tight circles of the anti-Tim folks. Be careful what you send around as not everyone thinks I am lying, covering Shawns backside, out of line for taking half of the amount of talking time that some others do, need to be reeled in, embarassing us in front of the Mn. state vet or the best one of all, Tim shouldn't be allowed on the calls because he doesn't agree with us. I will say that I haven't up to this point received anything from David Autry but now find myself interested to find out whats up in Tn. I will tell you what does hurt my feelings is when, given my reputation for fighting over-regulation, that someone would say I won't fight for whats right, well the deal is, I usually win and you only have to look at the states rules and understand who knows how to fight, so there are some people on here that really have disappointed me. Kurt Humphrey, thanks for not trashing me and just so you know, Shawn and I worked for 80 hours each in a week and a half many of them at 2:00am to make sure our industry was duely compensated for the TB positives that have to be put down. It was a long drawn out deal and in the end we got some help from Todd Morgan and some federal USDA guys to make it happen. Still a little work to do to finalize some protocol but the farmers got the maximum. I mean that only so everyone can understand its not us, we or them, its deer farmers being able to do business and survive. Thats what is being worked on by the folks I agree with.
Tim,
I know you to be a man that is willing to stand up for what's right even when others may attack you for not agreeing with them. If there were more men like you, this industry would not be in the shape it is today. Too many people have set back too long and were afraid to speak out when abusive regulations were being forced on us. Thanks for all you've done and I know you have the best interest of this industry at heart. Don't let up! Without people like you, this industry don't stand a chance.
In regard to your statement about what's going on in TN;
Back about 1990, TWRA, the state wildlife agency, tried to fine me $250,000.00 and take my deer. The court case lasted over 15 years and TWRA was unsuccessful. I haven't heard anything from them over the last 7 or 8 years. You have to stand up to these bullies and fight for your rights.
Again Tim thanks for what you, Shawn and a few others are doing for this industry. I for one appreciate the fact that you have been straight forward and honest about what is happening.
I know you to be a man that is willing to stand up for what's right even when others may attack you for not agreeing with them. If there were more men like you, this industry would not be in the shape it is today. Too many people have set back too long and were afraid to speak out when abusive regulations were being forced on us. Thanks for all you've done and I know you have the best interest of this industry at heart. Don't let up! Without people like you, this industry don't stand a chance.
In regard to your statement about what's going on in TN;
Back about 1990, TWRA, the state wildlife agency, tried to fine me $250,000.00 and take my deer. The court case lasted over 15 years and TWRA was unsuccessful. I haven't heard anything from them over the last 7 or 8 years. You have to stand up to these bullies and fight for your rights.
Again Tim thanks for what you, Shawn and a few others are doing for this industry. I for one appreciate the fact that you have been straight forward and honest about what is happening.
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