Cervid Industry Unites To Set Direction for CWD Reform

I agree with you, David. Tim is just the person I want to stand up and fight for our property rights and our industry as a whole. Government overregulation is never the answer. So how do we move forward united and when do we pull the first trigger?





Posted on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 03:06 pm:





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To all breeders of alternative livestock! I am on a national task force to help all of the industry rally against undue and unsubstantiated regulation and control of our great industry. Leaders of the North American Elk Breeders Association,NADEFA,Exotic Wildlife Association,and some state deer associations met in Dallas Texas in July to discuss and formulate a plan to not just sit back and take it anymore! Were gonna take the fight to the dog! We have formed what is to be known as the North American Cervid Alliance. We will once again be coming with our hands out. David King a whitetail breeder from Oklahoma came up with a plan to fund our organization. We are recomending each breeder donate two dollars for each animal they own. We feel this to be a very fair way of achieving goals.I personally feel that the people that can afford to give more should. The elk breeders have already contributed a significant amount. As deer and exotic breeders we must do the same! We have already lined up a staff of attorneys, are getting our lobbyist {very prominent Washington group who is very familiar with the cervid business}in line, and hiring a publicist {the same firm that helped Wendy's with their e-coli campaign}in place. This is not another sideline sitting organization thats relaying information to you after its to late. We will be well funded and well represented. We are not going to take the wait and see approach! We are going to take the lead so please help us. We will be looking for leaders in each state. If you are sick and tired of being the punching bag for CWD then lets get togeather and fight back! After we get these ridiculous regulations taken off for CWD then we will go after the ludicrous rules on TB testing. We will be getting the information packets out shortly! Please spread the word to all cervid farmers that we will now have an organization that we can sink our teeth into! Be a promoter for us and I will be back online in a few days to give you more information. Please don't listen to any doubting Thomas's. This time its really going to happen. My name is Tim Condict and I am from Dustin Ok. I raise Whitetail deer and have two shooting preserves with Elk, Exotics. and Whitetail. I included my name so you will know we are for real. Thanks in advance and I look forward to meeting many of you. I promise I will do my part. I am also the Vice-President of Whitetails of Oklahoma.

Rhonda, It was a great idea when we started, until the people who had came up with the idea got overheard in our next meeting in Kansas City talking among themselves about what they actually were doing which involved them all holding positions of high pay and no results expected. In other words we were being mislead for someones personal gain. You would definately think people would listen as I have been fighting for eleven years. Thats when I became involved in the only National Association I trust at this point which was NADeFA. The truth is the rules and regulation was far more stringent in 2002 than it is now and we could not get deer from Wisconsin and that state was about to go by the wayside. NADeFA had no money and we worked hard and changed that. Thats the first time I was recomending Capitol Hill Consulting to the industry. We got the restrictions on TB relaxed as Shawn Schafer sat on the working group that got that done. I have learned a lot since 2002. The main thing is, is how you have so few true friends and you should cherish the ones you do have because the rest that claim to be will cut your throat at the first chance to serve themselves. Yes I have learned it over and over about some people. Can I ask you a question and you be honest with me? Did you dig that up or was it given to you or told where you could find it? I will trust whatever answer you give and you can just text me the answer. I would post every post of mine on this board as I am not ashamed of any but I know you only posted that to try a cheap shot at me, which is fine. i just don't think thats your normal nature is why I ask. I have to go enjoy my moms birthday party now and will see ya later.

Thanks Rhonda for the post.....We are all waiting for that trigger to be pulled...PLEASE!.....how can someone complain about cheap shots (which i dont see posting someone's previous post word for word as a cheap shot....it's their words...not yours) when they are throwing them out themselves (reread your posts Tim)....I as well as many on here are tired of this constant bickering and some just want to keep going....and going on with it.......there comes a point when it's time to just Shut Up and put up! We have reached that point.........quit beating a dead horse.......ok..... so it is very apparent NADefa and ACA don't get along......or better said the people don't get along......well.....get over it cause your going to have too........and your both fighting for the same prize......and both bring many positives to the table.......work together for crying out loud......stop the silly games! It's time to move on!! Focus on the issues at hand........otherwise, if you can't..... I think it's time to find people who can......I have too much invested in this game as well as all of the other Deer farmers.......and I have to

say...... I am not very thrilled with the the way the people that were elected to protect us are acting lately!

Tim Condict said:

All, See here is the big problem. Myself or noone else I know of are getting behind the scenes info from Shawn or NADeFA and prestageing the outcomes of the phone calls. I don't call people and try to get them on my side. I will say that I have been privy to many emails that have been sent with many of them attacking me personally and a lot attacking Shawn. I also know of phone calls being made about me and actual attempts to keep me off of the calls, just because I don't agree on how we proceed to the end. In some peoples opinion we can only be united and right if we agree with their position, send money and don't ask any questions. Some of those emails are actually pretty funny and I am not a guy that holds a grudge very long so when we win this fight we can all be friends again. The funny thing about all these emails is they are sent to me by a spy who is in the tight circles of the anti-Tim folks. Be careful what you send around as not everyone thinks I am lying, covering Shawns backside, out of line for taking half of the amount of talking time that some others do, need to be reeled in, embarassing us in front of the Mn. state vet or the best one of all, Tim shouldn't be allowed on the calls because he doesn't agree with us. I will say that I haven't up to this point received anything from David Autry but now find myself interested to find out whats up in Tn. I will tell you what does hurt my feelings is when, given my reputation for fighting over-regulation, that someone would say I won't fight for whats right, well the deal is, I usually win and you only have to look at the states rules and understand who knows how to fight, so there are some people on here that really have disappointed me. Kurt Humphrey, thanks for not trashing me and just so you know, Shawn and I worked for 80 hours each in a week and a half many of them at 2:00am to make sure our industry was duely compensated for the TB positives that have to be put down. It was a long drawn out deal and in the end we got some help from Todd Morgan and some federal USDA guys to make it happen. Still a little work to do to finalize some protocol but the farmers got the maximum. I mean that only so everyone can understand its not us, we or them, its deer farmers being able to do business and survive. Thats what is being worked on by the folks I agree with.

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Tim, thanks for the shout out in the the post. I understand your concern for any association being formed for self gain or personal agendas. Its a shame that the North American Cervid Alliance wasn't set up correctly 10 years ago. However, the ACA is made of all unpaid volunteers and was formed to fight CWD rules and regs. The best part of having an unpaid alliance is there is no way for someone to recieve any monitary gain and EVERYONE can be represented with an equal voice. There is no paid staff or even power positions where there is a president or vice president ect... The ACA is a round table where every assocaitions has an equal voice no matter how big or small. I would love to sit down and discuss this further over some pie if i ever make it down to oklahoma.

So let me get this straight... there is an alliance of unpaid members (some paid by other groups but voluntarily at the same table), working together (at least to some degree) towards a common goal (we can agree on that, right?) with some differing opinions on the details of exactly how everything should get done, yet the whole thing is fraught with mudslinging because some people are not getting the recognition some feel they deserve, or others are getting more recognition than some feel they deserve?

Yep, makes perfect sense to me. Sounds exactly like the politics that we all know and love.

I, for one, couldn't care less who gets what done, as long as some common sense is brought into an arena where common sense is anything but common. So... for ANY of you that are putting hours in for the betterment of all who are involved in this industry: thank you.

Rhonda,



If there were more men like Tim, willing to take a stand, willing to do what's right, this industry would not be in the shape it is today. It takes more than a few to solve the problems in this industry.



Most people wait until it becomes a personal problem to them before they do anything other than complain. Most people wait for someone else to take care of the problems. With most people, it's not until the problem lands right smack in the middle of their operation before they get serious about doing anything.

kurthumphrey said:

Tim, thanks for the shout out in the the post. I understand your concern for any association being formed for self gain or personal agendas. Its a shame that the North American Cervid Alliance wasn't set up correctly 10 years ago. However, the ACA is made of all unpaid volunteers and was formed to fight CWD rules and regs. The best part of having an unpaid alliance is there is no way for someone to recieve any monitary gain and EVERYONE can be represented with an equal voice. There is no paid staff or even power positions where there is a president or vice president ect... The ACA is a round table where every assocaitions has an equal voice no matter how big or small. I would love to sit down and discuss this further over some pie if i ever make it down to oklahoma.

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Excellent summation of the ACA Kurt.

Like many of you, ive donated generously to nadefa over the years, and i will contine to do so. Shawn has personally assisted me with import issues as of late, and i appreciate that greatly! I also support the ACA and their undisputed efforts toward the betterment of our industry.

Now if we could just lose all of the in-fighting, maybe we could get something done without creating more division among us.

ddwhitetails said:

If we just ignore the negative comments going forward no matter how ignorant they may be....maybe ......THE SILLINESS WILL STOP! Worth a try folks.....they can't argue with themselves.....

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Thanks Dennis,



You're doing a great job keeping this thread alive. lol

Autry said:

Thanks Dennis,



You're doing a great job keeping this thread alive. lol

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Oh David I don't have to worry about keeping this thread alive when we have people like you continuously stirring the pot.......Grow UP PLEASE!! Real classy with your last post to Rhonda...God forbid CWD shows up in your pen!!

Be Careful Dennis...He is also a "Global Moderator" He Has Dignataries from around the world emailing him with "Inside Information" constantly!! He is also the worlds Foremost Messenger......They came to him first to do the Dos Equis XX Commercials. He is also a Master at Full Contact Oragame. But a severe Paper Cut ended his Ring Career Early.

Actually the fighting started with false things being said about NADeFA and acting like the Calvary had finally arrived. I asked, 4 years ago for us to can the whole CWD UM&R idea and tell them we don't want it anymore. My my the same people on here with all the answers now were dang sure wrong then. Well now we got that Federal rule they wanted so bad and the same folks don't want to try to get the standards to the point of making a rule that I didn't want to be good enough to keep a bunch of state power maniacs from interpreting the rule the way they want to. Maybe in the end we don't make it to that point. At that point I will be for doing what we can to stop them. I just can't understand why or how anyone can read the rule to not quarantine you for 5 years. It better get fixed in the standards or all of the BS will be for naught just as the same will be on the trace out concerns. Oh well I am planning on dropping the programs anyway so please don't give my state any ideas that would make it a requirement to test any from our hunting preserves or force us to be in any of the programs. Oh that's right we already fought and won that one. I can see myself not wasting my time for the rest of the nation in a year or so. Sit back and let others do the work and take cheap shots at them when they bust their butt to protect me. That's the life there. After watching this all develop it reminds me of the time David McQuaig and I were driving to a meeting to work on Oklahomas rules and regs. David was complaining that it was always just us and why weren't others there to help us. I told him because I only want it to be us to keep some knucklehead from saying the wrong thing and messing up the whole process. Well it has worked out pretty good here so far.

Just to be clear, I was not insinuating the ACA was anything like the NACA. None of the people at the ACA were involved with the NACA. Nobody said anything but I was afraid it could be mis-interpreted. ----Just so everyone knows---- I am not on the NADeFA board. This is a good reason to be off the board. So I can say what I want to and I don't have to listen to people telling on me or complaining about their elected reps.

Can anyone list what State Vets are heavily involved in the decisions and such regarding the re writing of the Standards? Also what state vets are not involved.......I ask this only out of curiosity with no intent on using this information any other way. Basically, just trying to see who at the State Levels are fighting for us.

Dennis, Dr. Anderson, and Dr. Hartman have been very instrumental in helping with the standards. Dr. Hartman is our head of the dept. in Minnesota, and Dr. Anderson is just under him. Both are very friendly to the cervid industry. I have known Dr. Hartman for over 25 years, he is a great guy.

At our last cervid advisory meeting last fall in Minnesota. Dr. Anderson even said he would like to see a plan in place were we could farm through CWD and come out the other side whole. If we could take our animals to preserves [to market our animals] and continue at 100% testing, we could regain our certification, and status, after 5 years. Doesn't this sound like a good plan? I agree with Tim, what he said in Washington, I don't want indemnification either, I want to continue to farm deer, even with a CWD positive. Under this plan we could at least continue a somewhat normal operation. We just couldn't sell breeding stock, but for most of us our true market is in preserves anyway.

Personally I don't think indemnification is the answer to making this standards program any better. I have been through indemnification with cattle. I remember getting $1100 for a $20,000 cow once. Indemnification is no more than fair market value. This value is established by a USDA appraiser, not necessarily a deer farmer or anyone that really understands the value of the deer.

I had cattle quarantined on my farm for 14 years. These cattle were from trace-backs from a country of origin. These cattle did not come from a positive BSE farm. Remember there is no lateral transmission of BSE between animals. So what do think they could do on quarantining tracebacks on deer if they really wanted too? This is why I am so opposed to the trace-backs and trace-forwards of the standards programs. If someone wanted to really abuses the system, they could destroy the industry over night. I don't have that kind of trust with some of these government officials, after I see how they handled cases in Iowa and Pa.

Getting back to your original question. Dr. Anderson and Dr. Hartman were instrumental in stopping the standards last summer, and have been very helpful in helping the working group make a program that wouldn't be as detrimental to the cervid industry as some agencies would like it to be.

Everyone should understand, it took a lot of courage for Dr. Hartman to go head to head with Dr. Clifford. A state Vet. standing up to one of the heads of the Federal agency isn't probably the best career move. But he was that convinced, that the federal program is wrong. He also has to work with them on all other livestock species. Cervids are a very small part of the Minn. BAH oversight, but it seems that's where they ar putting most of their energy right now. Remember, their life would be a whole lot easier if they just walked away and let this side through. So I would say we all in this industry owe these guys a huge thank you for sticking up for us.

You really also need to thank Rhonda Brakke for the amount of time she has put in trying to help put a face on the disease. This was probably the most instrumental thing in swaying the vets. to see the hardships that will occur with rules that are not functional. It's easy to make rules and laws to try to stop a disease, but when you put a face on it and show the true outcome of the rules, you look at them a lot different. I know this helped sway a lot of the state vets. She has used her own money to go to N.C., NADEFA conference, and Washington fly-in. She has met with many legislatures to share her story. Including meeting Speaker Bohner and key Ag. committee people. Remember, she has nothing to gain here, her herd is probably done. She is doing this to see if she can help change "the system" to help us. Remember, we are ALL only one test from being in their shoes. Thanks Rhonda, you have been a real trooper.

Gary

Ditto Gary with the addition that from my view the rule sucks and the best way to get the best situation is to fix the standards. I think if we don't get the standards right, the rule will keep everyone that tests positive to be quarantined for 5 years and the trace outs will be terrible. I think our team can get it done.

Autry said:

Rhonda,



If there were more men like Tim, willing to take a stand, willing to do what's right, this industry would not be in the shape it is today. It takes more than a few to solve the problems in this industry.



Most people wait until it becomes a personal problem to them before they do anything other than complain. Most people wait for someone else to take care of the problems. With most people, it's not until the problem lands right smack in the middle of their operation before they get serious about doing anything.

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David,



Your are correct, which is why I posted Tim's link from 2002. The industry needs to develop a united voice and strategy. Tim knows from our phone conversation, my intentions were not a "poke" at him. He was not the only person who made the same suggestions back in 2002 when all heck broke loose in Wisconsin, however, Tim's stood stronger than most. Ten years later, states are signing up for a 10-year-old Rule and working on Standards to address issues in the Rule.



I am hopeful that the working group will get the real issues addressed and changed in the Standards. If not, industry will be forced into situations very similar to ours here in Iowa. Unless, you are lucky enough to have a state that does not require you to test your animals.



No, I would not have chosen this path, I am not a born leader. However, CWD landed right in the middle of my operation. I, too, have relied on industry leaders to handle the politics and policies for our industry.



I may have been forced to find my voice, but I am forever greatful for all the friends who have given me strength and support since CWD landed on my farm.

Thanks Gary for the response and thanks Tim and Rhonda I know you are all working very hard on our behalf........the last few posts on here are refreshing to read!

For me as well Dennis.

I would like to thank everybody involved in this battle.

I really do appreciate all that you are doing for the deer industry.

I would help if I could but I am pretty sure I would be that knucklehead that would say the wrong thing and mess up the whole process.

Again Thank you

Thanks everyone, very anxious for Monday's meeting for the CWD Standards Working Group! Fingers crossed!!