CWD Live Test Research Project

james893351387911330



One has to wonder how long we have to keep proving our animals as being the cleanest in the livestock industry. In 2006 at the height of the BSE scare, there were 40,000 bovine brain samples tested. There are over 100,000 cattle slaughtered in this country every day Monday through Friday. That is 26,000,000 per year! That means that we tested .0015% in 2006! Today,( according to my usda source in Oklahoma) we test animals that ONLY have clinical symptoms of BSE. When CWD came on the scene in 2000, we were trying so hard to prove our innocence and our right to stay in business that we gave and gave to the point that some states were willing to test 100% of all deaths on farm or inside hunt ranches. Today, we are still trying to subject ourselves to more testing and keeping CWD on the front burner. It appears to me that we are just gonna regulate and test ourselves right out of business, or test ourselves to the point that all borders will be closed.


 


Please don't misunderstand the intent of my post. It's not that I don't appreciate the hard work and efforts of so many of you that are trying to do the best for everyone, it's just that I don't think we have to keep subjecting ourselves to so much scrutiny. My opinion, spend monies on litigation (and I can't stand that)! I think to many years of giving has turned into the mess we see today!




Cant misunderstand a post that is spot on. Its going to take a ton of money and the best lawyers to change anything. Just look at Iowa!  We could not fight our state because the money is not there so...We Lost and they shut the doors. Florida was before us.     Next!!!!!

I see what you mean and your frustration.


 


However,  nobody is going to help us but ourselves at this point.


Its too late, to sue our selves out of this and would take too long. All borders could be closed and the majority out of business by the time there would be results.


And no matter how right you think you are and that you may be,  look who you are suing. They will likely win their case.


When the federal rule was put in place we lost any leverage that we ever could have.


If CWD testing gets us relief from having to slaughter our animals that we ALL work so hard to raise I'm all for it.

However we decide to proceed, the industry must be united or we dont stand a chance. 

How can a state or federal government run a disease management program with no indemnity? Because it's really not a big deal?

Travis,


Yes we do need a united industry.  I think we all should be for all 3 avenues makes the most sense to me


1. vaccine


2. supplement to prevent


3. live test


 


but with the response from NADEFA it doesn't tell us where they stand on a live test!!


He says they have been asked but then does not answer the question but only to tell us what they themselves are monetarily supporting.


The real question is going to be where Dr Clifford stands on this issue.

jerrilee cave893581388090280



Travis,


Yes we do need a united industry.  I think we all should be for all 3 avenues makes the most sense to me


1. vaccine


2. supplement to prevent


3. live test


 


but with the response from NADEFA it doesn't tell us where they stand on a live test!!


He says they have been asked but then does not answer the question but only to tell us what they themselves are monetarily supporting.


The real question is going to be where Dr Clifford stands on this issue.




Clifford will stand where the state stands. He will let them make their choices of what to do with their state. He will give them something to go with and support them if they make tougher rules..like border closings.. The state will not kill your herd any longer so they wont have to pay you but you can bet they will let you sit in the corner and think about it for 5 years if you get a case on your farm and not care about your loss.

I think the one that makes sense to me is a live test.  If we have that, they can no way justify closing borders.  A vaccine won't prove anything to them.  It will be interesting to see the hurdles they will throw up, to get a live test approved !!!!


Gary

G O Whitetails893611388093076



I think the one that makes sense to me is a live test.  If we have that, they can no way justify closing borders.  A vaccine won't prove anything to them.  It will be interesting to see the hurdles they will throw up, to get a live test approved !!!!


Gary




 


I think the burden is on us to find the solutions because states will always justify closing their borders as long as our industry competes with their state dollars for hunts. This is private sector vs government.  I think we need to be working on several mentioned solutions concurrently, including revising both the CWD Standards and Rule because the status quo is unacceptable.  

Mike,


they are doing research now to see how quickly an animal  will test positive in their blood once exposed to cwd. If this is a pretty short period of time it bodes very well for us and being able to use a live test to move an animal from a prior positive herd.  Now, how many animals will seroconvert and not come down with the disease??? Thats probably worth taking the chance on.  I'm sure some will, but the positives out of being able to have a live test way out weighs the negatives. 


 


Gary,


I think this is where it is going to be important to work closely with the USDA(Dr Clifford not Patty Kline) like you would with your state assoc.


We need to know what they are thinking and where they stand.

There are many questions about a live test.  Would you have to test three years in a row like TB to be certified for example?  Would you have to test your whole herd?  How often?  How much would it cost?  The same can be said for a vaccination.  How often, how long does it last, do you have to do the whole herd or can you isolate an animal and then vaccinate him?  How effective is it? 


 


Afraid we may test ourselves to death!  Can see these being useful but not sure it would be across the board.  What if you don't sell live animals out of state? Lots of questions.  Would need some answers before a bunch of money is stuck into something that isn't going to be feasible for most folks to do.  Would it be used only in cases where someone had a positive?  Lots to consider.

jerrilee cave893631388101980



Mike,


they are doing research now to see how quickly an animal  will test positive in their blood once exposed to cwd. If this is a pretty short period of time it bodes very well for us and being able to use a live test to move an animal from a prior positive herd.  Now, how many animals will seroconvert and not come down with the disease??? Thats probably worth taking the chance on.  I'm sure some will, but the positives out of being able to have a live test way out weighs the negatives. 


 


Gary,


I think this is where it is going to be important to work closely with the USDA(Dr Clifford not Patty Kline) like you would with your state assoc.


We need to know what they are thinking and where they stand


 
margin:0px 0px .75em;(51,51,51);Georgia, serif;small;background-(221,221,153)Infectious prion (PrP(Res)) material is likely the cause of fatal, neurodegenerative transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE) diseases(1). Transmission of TSE diseases, such as chronic wasting disease (CWD), is presumed to be from animal to animal(2,3) as well as from environmental sources(4-6). Scavengers and carnivores have potential to translocate PrP(Res) material through consumption and excretion of CWD-contaminated carrion. Recent work has documented passage of PrP(Res) material through the digestive system of American crows (Corvus brachyrhynchos), a common North American scavenger(7). We describe procedures used to document passage of PrP(Res) material through American crows. Crows were gavaged with RML-strain mouse-adapted scrapie and their feces were collected 4 hr post gavage. Crow feces were then pooled and injected intraperitoneally into C57BL/6 mice. Mice were monitored daily until they expressed clinical signs of mouse scrapie and were thereafter euthanized. Asymptomatic mice were monitored until 365 days post inoculation. Western blot analysis was conducted to confirm disease status. Results revealed that prions remain infectious after traveling through the digestive system of crows and are present in the feces, causing disease in test mice.
After tests like these.  Who Knows!

Mike.  the key words in that statement " is PRESUMED".    If they can transmit by nose to nose, why can't we do a swab of the nose or mouth and live test them?  If it is in the soil, why can't we test for it?  The problem is even after 30 years working with the "prion theory,"  they are still guessing.  The more we learn about CWD the less we know!  We have science that shows our herds are safe, yet USDA doesn't even list to their own science.


Gary

 

 

Infectious prion (PrP(Res)) material is likely the cause of fatal, neurodegenerative transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE) diseases(1). Transmission of TSE diseases, such as chronic wasting disease (CWD), 18px<sub is presumed </subto be from animal to animal(2,3) as well as from environmental sources(4-6). Scavengers and carnivores have potential to translocate PrP(Res) material through consumption and excretion of CWD-contaminated carrion. Recent work has documented passage of PrP(Res) material through the digestive system of American crows (Corvus brachyrhynchos), a common North American scavenger(7). We describe procedures used to document passage of PrP(Res) material through American crows. Crows were gavaged with RML-strain mouse-adapted scrapie and their feces were collected 4 hr post gavage. Crow feces were then pooled and injected intraperitoneally into C57BL/6 mice. Mice were monitored daily until they expressed clinical signs of mouse scrapie and were thereafter euthanized. Asymptomatic mice were monitored until 365 days post inoculation. Western blot analysis was conducted to confirm disease status. Results revealed that prions remain infectious after traveling through the digestive system of crows and are present in the feces, causing disease in test mice.

Bingo Gary,


I have done a lot of reading in the last few days about prion testing that has been done and they have tested for it and found it in the saliva.


In the prior paper of the blood testing reasearch done by this group it mentioned that the quaking test that they are using is "cheap" (whatever that means) and therefore I think they saw where this test could be implemented in cervid industry.


 


Also, there is a lot of interest in prions because Alzheimers and Parkinsons are forms of prion diseases also.  There are also some new drugs on the horizon for these two diseases.  I think that is why there is more interest in finding these prion diseases earlier. I read where they say 1in 2000 people in Europe have CJD( mad cow prion).  Also read that scrapies can be passed through the milk.


Just some interesting facts I came across.

G O Whitetails893701388109874



Mike.  the key words in that statement " is PRESUMED".    If they can transmit by nose to nose, why can't we do a swab of the nose or mouth and live test them?  If it is in the soil, why can't we test for it?  The problem is even after 30 years working with the "prion theory,"  they are still guessing.  The more we learn about CWD the less we know!  We have science that shows our herds are safe, yet USDA doesn't even list to their own science.


Gary

 

 

Infectious prion (PrP(Res)) material is likely the cause of fatal, neurodegenerative transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE) diseases(1). Transmission of TSE diseases, such as chronic wasting disease (CWD), 18px<sub is presumed </subto be from animal to animal(2,3) as well as from environmental sources(4-6). Scavengers and carnivores have potential to translocate PrP(Res) material through consumption and excretion of CWD-contaminated carrion. Recent work has documented passage of PrP(Res) material through the digestive system of American crows (Corvus brachyrhynchos), a common North American scavenger(7). We describe procedures used to document passage of PrP(Res) material through American crows. Crows were gavaged with RML-strain mouse-adapted scrapie and their feces were collected 4 hr post gavage. Crow feces were then pooled and injected intraperitoneally into C57BL/6 mice. Mice were monitored daily until they expressed clinical signs of mouse scrapie and were thereafter euthanized. Asymptomatic mice were monitored until 365 days post inoculation. Western blot analysis was conducted to confirm disease status. Results revealed that prions remain infectious after traveling through the digestive system of crows and are present in the feces, causing disease in test mice.




Yes Sir and like we just went through its all about risk.  When presumed is used that leaves doubt. For some any kind of doubt is to much.  When you stand in a room a listen to someone that carries power and influence tell a hearing officer (that has no clue about any facet of cwd) that its his belief that we could be talking 100 years before we could see the true powers of what cwd could do to our wild herds, You know what her decision will be on your future!  Of course this person works for the dec of our state.  I believe it will be a test of time before we get any kind of relief from this or some very powerful lawyers that will fight for our rights.


 


If some of the states that have adopted Ny.s testing procedures also adopt their way of thinking there will be many more comment periods in the near future. Its shown now where Ny,Florida and Iowa stands so those states are out. I think Wisconsin will be the only saving grace state we have. If they continue to work through cwd, (with so many cases), with their farms and their wild deer we may have a chance up here, In 5 years of course!

Mike,


So what do you suggest we do as an industry with a possible live test????


nothing???


 


 


I came across this in a magazine and it is apporpriate for many circumstances in life.
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:28]
We should not lose sight of the big picture.  And I assume the big picture is for CWD to not control our lives and businesses like it does today.

jerrilee cave893731388113051



 


Mike,


So what do you suggest we do as an industry with a possible live test????


nothing???


 


 


I came across this in a magazine and it is apporpriate for many circumstances in life.
 
We should not lose sight of the big picture.  And I assume the big picture is for CWD to not control our lives and businesses like it does today.


 




I think we need to continue to do whatever we can but the fact is we have to hope and pray that someday soon cwd will be seen for what it is and what it does. If you start reading some of the other hunting sites you will see where hunters are starting to ***** because the real killer..ehd..is killing all the deer and then the states are handing out tag after tag and making all kinds of new seasons to try and get more hunters to spend money on tags. Well the hunters are starting to catch on and their pissed..Read some sites in Mn.Iowa,ill and read what they are saying.  In the long run they are just making our industry stronger.


 I believe reguardless of any tests we come up with, we will not be shown in a positive light untill the truth and facts of what we do and what our states DEC and DNR are trying to say we do... Are shown! They put us in this boat by using the public against us and untill that changes...nothing changes! Just an opinion from a guy that just heard some of the public's opinion's!

"I believe reguardless of any tests we come up with, we will not be shown in a positive light untill the truth and facts of what we do and what our states DEC and DNR are trying to say we do... Are shown!"


 


I would rather take my chance on convincing 1 person with the USDA what our industry needs than trying to convince the public one by one. That was the point of  "THE BIG PICTURE".  The same can be said for suing our way out of this.  Case in point is the Brakke case.  It can be in BLACK AND WHITE and you still lose.  And thats a fact Jack. Thats what we are up against if you sue and where does that get us???  In worse shape,broke and out of business.  I think the old saying "you catch more flies with honey" is appropriate here.  Who knows how reversible the border closings would be with a live test but if it keeps  the other states from doing so it's worth it and I think most farmers would welcome that. Of course there are a lot of challenges to how live testing would be applied,but nothing new is easy. If all borders close there are many of us that will be out of business. Not all states have enough hunting ranches to meet supply.  How many ranches will go out of business because they cant buy enough animals to fill their hunts in closed states? You could see a shift to smaller operations due to property costs, which is not good for our image.   If a current cwd blood test in animals was implemented and the animal could be moved into these states to fill the void it would be beneficial to us all.  

(40,40,40); I would rather take my chance on convincing 1 person with the USDA what our industry needs than trying to convince the public one by one. That was the point of  "THE BIG PICTURE".  The same can be said for suing our way out of this.  Case in point is the Brakke case.  It can be in BLACK AND WHITE and you still lose.  And thats a fact Jack Quote.


 


I think some lose site of the fact that its not just making 1 person with USDA happy.  The states can and will go above any minimum rule they set.  Case in point is the Iowa case! They say no harm, no foul to the state or animals yet no easing up on the farm. Do you really think any rule from USDA is going to change their outcome?Hell No. Its suing them for all your worth now to prove with their own words how your rights are being stepped on over and over.


 I think the catch more flies with honey was the approach some of our leaders took because they knew and still know today that in absence of a major state by state lawsuit our one set of rules that every state has to abide by they had to work with every state- Give a little,Get a little approach =A happy state!  Because of the fact that any state can make their own rules That approach sure did not work in every state. It seems like some states like Oklahoma, where the dec/dnr of that state makes money off of farms and ranches, you dont hear much. Happy,Happy,Happy! It still comes down to money and sales at the end of the day and CWD is just the tool that they are using to get their job done and their agenda across to Joe public


 Joe pubic in many states are starting to see the big picture i believe. go a year or two without seeing any deer in the woods and joe will make some noise!.  


 

Found this article that was written 10 years ago over the Vermont sheep case.  Was published in Rueters I believe.  Much still proves true today.


Gary


______________________________________________________________________


 


USDA: still chasing virinos after all these years



APHIS fact sheet pdf on Vermont sheep
Q: What causes BSE?
A: Little is known about the actual agent that causes BSE and other TSEs. So far, scientists know that the TSE agent is smaller than most viral particles. It is highly resistant to heat, ultraviolet light, ionizing radiation, and common disinfectants that normally stop viruses or kill bacteria. Also, the agent does not cause the host's immune system to create detectable antibodies.  (205,35,44)The TSE agent has not yet been observed under a microscope.
Three main theories on the nature of the agent have been proposed:
1) An unconventional virus.
2) A prion or a partially protease-resistant protein that is rebuilt into an abnormal prion.
3) An incomplete virus (i.e., a small piece of DNA) that protects itself by using a host protein. This is called a virino."

(0,0,0);, ' ', 'Lucida Grande', ;16pxOpinion (webmaster): Here is the heart of the problem with USDA -- clueless after all these years. Scrapie-associated fibrils were first observed under the microscope in the early 1970's. The kooky models above were ruled 18 years ago, so what public purpose is served by resurrecting them now? USDA has no business in TSE regulation if they are this ignorant of the science.
(0,0,0);, ' ', 'Lucida Grande', ;16pxVirinos? The first of 3 speculative papers on virinos came in 1982 (note 3414 publication exist on prions), the second was from Staten Island (surprise!) and the last in 1994. Virinos never had supporting data and no more than a handful of true believers: Kimberlin-Dickinson-Hope, Dormont, Staten Island, and a Polish clinician.
(0,0,0);, ' ', 'Lucida Grande', ;16pxMedline has the real story, which is that of a conventional amyloidosis. The mystery was all over by the time of Glenner's 1983 paper, considering this was something like the eighth known amyloid at the time, that review articles on familial CJD had been written and so on. By the time of the great flurry of sequencing articles in the summer of 1986 and infectious insulin protein demonstrated in 1988, there were no real outstanding issues about the causative agent and no great surprises either:
 

anyone know of any whitetail research for codons of PrP to select cwd resistant animals ??


from what I have found there are 3 different codons they talk about 96,153,and 226.


 


Sheep
16px;serif"The good news is that there is a test
16px;serifavailable today that guarantees that a sheep
16px;serifdoes not have scrapie and will not acquire
16px;serifscrapie, even if exposed. That test is the
16px;serifcodon 171 test. The codon 171 test is a
16px;serifDNA test that determines the amino acid
16px;serif(building block of protein) in the 171
9.6px;serifst
16px;serifposition of the prion protein. The test
16px;serifdetermines the genotype of the codon ( a
16px;serifshort stretch of DNA that codes for a single
16px;serifamino acid) that codes for the 171
9.6px;serifst
16px;serifamino
16px;serifacid. If a sheep has an “R� amino acid at
16px;serifposition 171 it is “negative� for scrapie,
16px;serifwhich means that it does not have and will
16px;serifnever get scrapie. “R� actually stands for the
16px;serifamino acid arginine, but it is easiest to think
16px;serifof it as standing for resistance. Since sheep,
16px;seriflike humans, have chromosomes in pairs
16px;serif(one from the mother and one from the
16px;seriffather) they may be RR (both chromosomes
16px;serifwith the resistant gene), QR (one
16px;serifchromosome with the resistant gene) and


QQ (sensitive to scrapie)
16px;serifThe best news of all is that only one
16px;serif“R� gene is necessary to confer virtually
16px;serifcomplete resistance. No QR or RR sheep
16px;serifhas ever been confirmed to have scrapie in
16px;serifthe U.S. and no QR sheep has ever tested
16px;serifpositive in a third eyelid test. Recent work
16px;serifexamining placental tissue from QR lambs
16px;serifwhose dams (QQ) are affected with scrapie
16px;serifindicates that QR sheep cannot be carriers.
16px;serifRelative to third eyelid testing, DNA testing
16px;serifis simple (it uses only a small blood sample)
16px;serifand inexpensive and DNA does not change.
16px;serifA lamb that is RR will always be RR and
16px;serifwill, therefore, always be negative for


scrapie.
16px;serifPerhaps instead of calling for more
16px;serifresearch to develop more tests, we in the
16px;serifsheep industry should be calling for
16px;serifimplementation of rational scrapie programs
16px;serifbased on the science we already have. If a
16px;serifsmall fraction of the money spent to date on
16px;serifscrapie programs could instead have been
16px;serifused to subsidize producers to purchase RR
16px;seriframs, we could be well on our way to
16px;seriferadicating scrapie. Remember, every lamb
16px;seriffrom an RR ram will be at least QR and,


therefore, resistant to scrapie.


 


Elk Codon testing at UC Davis


Detailed CWD Information


CWD infection causes the normal cellular prion protein (PrP) to be converted to an abnormal form. This conversion of the PrP initiates the disease process. DNA sequencing of the PrP gene in elk has shown a single base difference at codon 132. This genetic difference among animals changes the amino acid from methionine to leucine and appears to affect susceptibility or incubation time of disease. Testing of elk for codon 132 of PrP may help breeders to select for animals that are less susceptible to CWD. Below is a summary of the results of the test and the susceptibility status.
class="Codon 132 Testing


Breeders should be aware that only 1% of the elk tested are L/L for codon 132.

Genotype

Description

M/M

2 copies of methionine = susceptible

L/M

1 copy of methionine and 1 copy of leucine = susceptible*

L/L



2 copies of leucine = resistant*



 


* Research findings suggest that L/M elk have a longer incubation period before clinical signs are evident


** Research findings suggest that L/L elk are resistant to CWD; there has been only one confirmed case of CWD in an animal that tested L/L