We will be able to answer some of those questions when we read the final ruling.I am on the same page when you mention the open border and have expressed that on several occasions.The federal rule will be a baseline and the states can adopt stricter rules if they deem necessary.That is the job of the producers of their states to stay involved on a local level to have an influence on their state laws.As far as imdemnity I really doubt it since there is no money for the program.I hear about other states DNR and I thank God every time I hear one of your stories that I live in Oklahoma.I realize I live in Oklahoma and our politicians do have some common sense.We work with our Dept of Wildlife and we educated them on what exactly we do and participate with them on some of their programs on education.I tell fellow Whitetails Of Oklahoma board members when we talk about donating to their projects that is the best money we could spend.I know I am getting off base but I am very passionate about getting politicians and the general public to understand about deer farming.Watch Tims video about deer farming it says it all.I guess what I am trying to say is lets see what it says before we cast judgement and if your state is too restricting then move to Oklahoma you will love it I know I do.
Joined Apr 2009
1,428 Posts | 0+
Northeast Wisconsin
We have thankfully moved nearly all of our regulatory oversight to our Dept. of Agriculture. DNR is still involved in new operations, making sure there are no wild deer in any enclosures when a place starts out. That puts in place an immediate division between wild deer and our deer. So any deer we have must come from a licensed deer farm, here or in another state, therefore making it our deer. I would think WV would be the most conservative state around with the negative comments from Obama on coal mining etc. We have definitely fared better under Republican administrations since they believe in smaller government and fewer rules.
Unless the Federal CWD rule changes something, it is too little to late. After 10 years I would guess it will be pretty watered down to the point that it really won't make any difference - just the way things usually work.
As for the indemnity - there was money originally but then the feds decided it could be cut. Just like the money for CWD testing. Seems to me if they don't think it is important enough to spend some money on, why should anyone else?
Skip, I am a political junkie and follow the politics of things pretty closely. You may see a reference here and there that Gary makes on our TV show regarding things or get a glimpse of our yard sign "we stand with Gov. Walker". We watch Fox news all the time and definitely know that educating people and politicians is the way to go. One of the main reasons we have our TV show.
Unless the Federal CWD rule changes something, it is too little to late. After 10 years I would guess it will be pretty watered down to the point that it really won't make any difference - just the way things usually work.
As for the indemnity - there was money originally but then the feds decided it could be cut. Just like the money for CWD testing. Seems to me if they don't think it is important enough to spend some money on, why should anyone else?
Skip, I am a political junkie and follow the politics of things pretty closely. You may see a reference here and there that Gary makes on our TV show regarding things or get a glimpse of our yard sign "we stand with Gov. Walker". We watch Fox news all the time and definitely know that educating people and politicians is the way to go. One of the main reasons we have our TV show.
I just talked to a Vet. He told me that in California, where they found the BSE [Mad Cow], they took the last offspring of the cow and it tested negative. Thats as far as its going to go. If that was CWD in your herd would you be treated the same? Since they are both TSE diseases, why the different treatment? Since there is no indemnity for us how do we stand? They test 40,000 cattle per year of 35 million slaughtered. What % is that? We test at 100%. Why the different treatment? We are being targeted for closure by regulations and restrictions. I have been involved in the cattle business for over 40 years and have worked with the BAH all this time. I have imported cattle from 3 countries, and have less problems with cattle than I ever have had with deer. Yet the economic impact of the cattle industry dwarfs the deer industry. I am shocked how they treat the deer industry.
We need a political revolution to straighten out the over government we have. To those of you think that we should be happy to have deer and except the crumbs they throw us, what country were you born in? The regulations and testing they require us to do are unjustified, and are not equal to the other animals they manage.
We need a political revolution to straighten out the over government we have. To those of you think that we should be happy to have deer and except the crumbs they throw us, what country were you born in? The regulations and testing they require us to do are unjustified, and are not equal to the other animals they manage.
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
To those of you think that we should be happy to have deer and except the crumbs they throw us, what country were you born in?
To this quote i would have to say i will take all the crumbs they throw untill something gets figured out and laws set. Although they suck and as i said you wont find to many states with some of the laws NY has i would still rather be able to have deer and put up with the crap than have a bunch of holstiens walking around my farm. These are game animals in all states, I believe, So there will always be some different rules when it comes to having them in pen's. Alot of us have not been in this to long and do not know the story of the laws ten years ago,we would like to be around in ten more to see where we end up!!
To this quote i would have to say i will take all the crumbs they throw untill something gets figured out and laws set. Although they suck and as i said you wont find to many states with some of the laws NY has i would still rather be able to have deer and put up with the crap than have a bunch of holstiens walking around my farm. These are game animals in all states, I believe, So there will always be some different rules when it comes to having them in pen's. Alot of us have not been in this to long and do not know the story of the laws ten years ago,we would like to be around in ten more to see where we end up!!
In Minnesota our deer are considered agricultural property not wildlife, by law. In the 1930's there where no wild deer in southern Minnesota and most all of Iowa. They were considered a rare sight. There were more deer on farms than in the wild. The state of Iowa credits releases and escapes from deer farms for the repopulation of the wild deer herd in the 1930's. If the wild deer herd was started by by farms, how can they be considered wild? 150 years ago cattle and horses roamed free in the west and south. There were range wars when fences stated going up. Were those cattle and horses considered wild?
If you don't start standing up for your rights, you won't be able to raise deer 10 years from now!
If you don't start standing up for your rights, you won't be able to raise deer 10 years from now!
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
G O Whitetails said:
AWESOME POST and oh so very true!
In WI our deer are livestock as well. Our state org (Whitetails of Wisconsin) put a lot of time, effort and money into working to gain the rights we have. If other states would do that they would have better rules. People need to start running their farms like a business and not like a hobby farm filled with pets. Then they can demand the respect of legislators and show the validity of the industry.
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
I know Dave vanderzees who is the head of nydefa and also just got voted into nadefa and shawn flew to washington at the end of april to lobby to get a few laws changed in Ny. I know one they want to change is the law that tells Ny deer farmers how many deer they can have on a piece of property. I also know that alot of the people that i know that raise deer do not do it for a business. Most have jobs to make money so they can raise deer. That subject could get drawn on forever but there are still some that have deer for the love of the animal and do not sell any deer. They are happy to go with the flow.
IndependenceRanch said:
The antis love seeing division & pounce on it.
Better for everyone not to divide any deer stakeholders.
It might be surprising how influencial some of these "pet" owners can be.
Sure there must be some minimum standards for keeping deer,but peoples choice on why they do needs to be respected.
Cheers Sharkey
There are people that are in this deer business to make money.....and there are people that are happy to just raise a few animals and enjoy them......to disrespect the hobby farmer is out of line if you ask me......to each his own......we need to quit throwing stones and ban together as Deer Farmers no matter why you are doing it........there is power in numbers.........
ddwhitetails said:
if you have a deer behind a fence , your a deer farmer. of sorts, if they can take are 50-100 deer then ( THEY ) can take your 1-2 , wake up
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
ddwhitetails said:
Well your just trying to slam me for what I am saying and trying to devide money from enjoyment, however your making my point quite clearly. It is you who needs to realize most "hobby" farms don't join forces and ban together with everyone to address the issues the industry faces. They simply prefer to ride the shirt tails of those who did the work and spent the money to support the industry. That said some "hobby farms" do a lot for the industry and it is appreciated.
Joined May 2009
2,369 Posts | 0+
Chillicothe, Missouri
For years I always asked.............Why if we are a 3 BILLION dollar industry............WHY do we NOT get the RESPECT as DEERFARMERS that WE are do? The same respect Farmers,Hog farmers,Cattle farmers ect.....
Well it has taken me a while but I think it has been getting clearer..........atleast for me and it all starts with the fact... I believe many already feel they have us divided some examples:
Breeders vs Stocker grower......Happens everyday....WE are ALL DEERFARMERS!!!
Many Many Deerfarmers...........Low membership in State Orginizations
Many Many Deerfarmers...........Low membership in NADeFA..... Both there for us by us but supported by FEW!
Closed borders to States not allowing them to participate in business among ALL DEERFARMERS nation wide!
Other FARMERS are united........Examples: You can buy Corn,Soybeans,Wheat,Cattle,Hogs,Goat and Sheep in ANY of the 50 states we live in from ANYONE who grows them!
And I didn't even mention any of our "DIRTY LAUNDRY" This industry carries around!
And then WE get on here and ***** about it..............?
Well it has taken me a while but I think it has been getting clearer..........atleast for me and it all starts with the fact... I believe many already feel they have us divided some examples:
Breeders vs Stocker grower......Happens everyday....WE are ALL DEERFARMERS!!!
Many Many Deerfarmers...........Low membership in State Orginizations
Many Many Deerfarmers...........Low membership in NADeFA..... Both there for us by us but supported by FEW!
Closed borders to States not allowing them to participate in business among ALL DEERFARMERS nation wide!
Other FARMERS are united........Examples: You can buy Corn,Soybeans,Wheat,Cattle,Hogs,Goat and Sheep in ANY of the 50 states we live in from ANYONE who grows them!
And I didn't even mention any of our "DIRTY LAUNDRY" This industry carries around!
And then WE get on here and ***** about it..............?
Roger I am not trying to slam you....I simply don't agree with what you are saying.........as I stated before........whether your in this to make money or in this to enjoy raising a few Whitetails it should not matter......I know some hobby farmers that put as much and or more towards this industry than a lot of farms........this being said, it should not matter if you are a farmer in it to make money or a hobby farmer......yes we All should do our part to help where we can......let's not divide the industry......let's find ways to unite no matter why you choose to raise deer! Wayne I couldn't agree with you more!
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
As I said some who are in it for the fun do support the industry. However most do not. They simply float along waiting for others to do everything for them. Wayne's example of state and national memberships proves the point. I am totally in favor of all farms provided they abide by the same set of rules, support the orcs with memberships, and in whatever way they can afford support with donations or purchases during benefit auctions and fund raisers. Just simply being a member of the orgs is at least some support.
I am NOT the one who divides by always bringing up small vs big or money vs enjoyment. That is you and a couple of others. You all have a great day!
I am NOT the one who divides by always bringing up small vs big or money vs enjoyment. That is you and a couple of others. You all have a great day!
Roger, I am not going to argue with you...Your statement above about me is false never have I ever made any statement about people in this for money against people in this for enjoyment until just recently to respond to your remarks about the hobby farmers......I am not the only one on this thread who disagreed with what you said....go back and read the responses.......anyhow......if Your *** at the hobby farmers in your previous post is not a dividing statement then I do not know what is...sure there may be some that don't get involved but I can promise you there are plenty that are in it to make money that don't get involved either.....so to throw the blame at the hobby farmer just isn't fair.......I am about everyone getting along and uniting.......I may have in the past made some remarks about the Big deer farmer and I was wrong.....I learn from my mistakes.....I wish some others would also.......Some of us just let our pride get in the way.........anyhow, I'm done with this as it is NOT what the original poster wants to read and it's unproductive.
Fair comments and a good thread. Can you folks distinguish between a small deer farmer and a hobby farmer? Certainly, I would say. I actually got in the business for neither of the two. I want to propagate my high fenced 300 acres for future generations of family and friends. Throw in a few hunts for the underprivileged youth "pre gratis". For reasons of my own I am not a member of any associations but can't argue Rogers point. A very neat pen and healthy animals along with 100% honest record keeping affords me the option of having the last 10 years to provide local game wardens keys to my place and an ongoing invitation to come day or night without notice. Too, I just completed a scheduled inspection of my facilities with my veterinarian that went great and wasn't mandatory. Call me crazy, but if I ever needed a Texas law enforcement officer for any reason, I would call and trust my game warden. How would I be classified?...just curious.
I started reading this tread a couple of days ago and chose not to respond. But, I feel I just have to. Given the way that I try to make a living, it is usually best if I just sit back and shut up, but as many have told me, I am not very business smart.
Roger, I must say that I disagree with you. You have a couple of good points in that all people who raise deer should support the industry. But as can be seen in the deer industry, can also be seen in most other breed type organizations, a few volunteers do most of the work, and a few also fund most of projects.
Political issues are of major importance to our industry. I have been to Washington DC numerous times for the deer and elk industries. By me giving my time and money to do this, does this make me “better” or a more “serious” deer farmer than those that do not go to DC? No, we are all deer farmers. Also, the first question that is asked by a congressman, is how many deer farmers are in my district? They do not ask how many hobby or non-hobby deer farmers?
I think that Wayne, was asking to be compared to other livestock, and I agree that deer farming is livestock farming. But take a look at livestock, let’s say, Angus cattle or Quarter horses or Boer goats. At least 75% of the people that raise these livestock are doing so, because they want to, and often, if a sharp pencil is put to it, they are not making money. So are these, hobby livestock farmers? In my opinion, yes, they are, but they are the backbone of those industries.
I have heard a comment many times from deer farmers, “even if these animals were worth nothing, I enjoy them and I would still have a few”. That statement speaks so many more volumes about the deer industry, than quoting that we are 3 billion dollar a year industry, or other financial statistics.
I still enjoy looking at some of the press and research articles from the early 1900’s. The stories of many individuals that were raising deer and elk are told, and it was not all about the money, and most were doing it as a hobby.
Yes, I do think that the level of support for national and state organizations should be higher. And I am supportive of most organizations. But when was the last time that you have seen one of these organizations provide a list of reasons for becoming a member? A list of the organizations accomplishments? These organizations needed to cultivate membership instead of expecting it.
Again, just my opinion, but we need hobby deer farmers. We need non-hobby deer farmers. We need any and all deer farmers. I hope I have not offended to many, but, so be it.
Ray Favero
Roger, I must say that I disagree with you. You have a couple of good points in that all people who raise deer should support the industry. But as can be seen in the deer industry, can also be seen in most other breed type organizations, a few volunteers do most of the work, and a few also fund most of projects.
Political issues are of major importance to our industry. I have been to Washington DC numerous times for the deer and elk industries. By me giving my time and money to do this, does this make me “better” or a more “serious” deer farmer than those that do not go to DC? No, we are all deer farmers. Also, the first question that is asked by a congressman, is how many deer farmers are in my district? They do not ask how many hobby or non-hobby deer farmers?
I think that Wayne, was asking to be compared to other livestock, and I agree that deer farming is livestock farming. But take a look at livestock, let’s say, Angus cattle or Quarter horses or Boer goats. At least 75% of the people that raise these livestock are doing so, because they want to, and often, if a sharp pencil is put to it, they are not making money. So are these, hobby livestock farmers? In my opinion, yes, they are, but they are the backbone of those industries.
I have heard a comment many times from deer farmers, “even if these animals were worth nothing, I enjoy them and I would still have a few”. That statement speaks so many more volumes about the deer industry, than quoting that we are 3 billion dollar a year industry, or other financial statistics.
I still enjoy looking at some of the press and research articles from the early 1900’s. The stories of many individuals that were raising deer and elk are told, and it was not all about the money, and most were doing it as a hobby.
Yes, I do think that the level of support for national and state organizations should be higher. And I am supportive of most organizations. But when was the last time that you have seen one of these organizations provide a list of reasons for becoming a member? A list of the organizations accomplishments? These organizations needed to cultivate membership instead of expecting it.
Again, just my opinion, but we need hobby deer farmers. We need non-hobby deer farmers. We need any and all deer farmers. I hope I have not offended to many, but, so be it.
Ray Favero
Forgive my off of the wall contrast, I will try to tie it in to the subject. First I want to say I have received advice often and much needed from my fellow deer farmers...all at no cost. Over the years so many of you have demonstrated your compassion, not just for our animals, but for each other. This outweighs anything that could be said against us a whole. Thank you all again. Many of you have not only succeeded here, but have unselfishly left all others your "road map to success". One wont see this in many other businesses, which we can all take pride in...big or small. I will share this that crossed my mind regarding this thread. Does it make someone a better Christian if they have more or give more to their church, or that they are longstanding members, just joined...or just visiting? Or "their" church is a mega church while "yours" is 20 people in one room? If every deer farmer was a member in a state or national association there could never be complete unison because of different philosophies and interests. Those that are not currently members could POSSIBLY be donating far above what can be drawn from a wallet or written on a check. Since the criteria seems to be an affiliation with an organization...well, I must not qualify for representation but I am indebted to those who are assuming this important and vital role. It takes money, no denying this.