Ha ha Mike she was no pet if her sons throw buttons like the ones that you have and I paid 8k for her momma! Believe it or not I sold one of my does for ALOT less then you paid for her! Yes I do understand that my post was similar to what you were talking about but it looks at the discussion in a whole new light. Maybe you missed the point I was trying to make so I'll try again...
Deer breed at very high rates. In a matter of three years an open doe and a single buck can turn into 10 animals very quickly, so by that calculation the shooter market has to grow by 5x every 3 breeding seasons just to keep up with the growing deer population even if we were to disallow new farmers. Personally I think that would be the worst thing for all of us if we weren't allowed to get new farmers started because your end market just got cut in half! The point I'm trying to make is that there needs to be two classifications in our business... Breeders and Hobbyist. The breeder is someone who spends good money on their animals and dedicates their time to advertising, meeting farmers, ect. The hobbyist is someone who puts whitetail deer in their back yard and lets the males and females interact during the fall season and then calls people like me up in the spring to sell their animals because they don't know what to do with them. I guess the best way to make this understandable is compare deer to say dogs. There is a very high end market for dog breeding and just like the deer certain people make a lot of money from it. But unlike the deer there are in a lot of cases these “hobbyist� that get their females pregnant and give away all of the offspring because they don’t know what to do with them. At last check our house pets feed bills are higher than the ones outside and remember that little number I threw up before on how much money you would save per year on each animal that you aren’t trying to make a living off of. I don’t know how to make it any simpler than not every deer is a breeder and for lack of a better term a lot of them are “mutts� that shouldn’t be bred or their offspring should be given away.
As far as the shooter market goes if we continue to produce these bigger and better animals of course the pricing will come down because it’s a matter of availability. Who wouldn’t take a little less money for their animals each year just to know that you will be able to sell them for many years to come. At this point we can all agree that growing a 200� buck is fairly easy and cheap. The 200� are selling for around a $5000 average and it takes no more than $2000 to get them to that point. You tell me in what other farming related business can you more than double your money on every crop that passes through your hands. If you ask me, we are very lucky that prices have been as high as they are for so long. We have to take a reality check sometimes to see where we actually are.
The thing that drives me absolutely insane are the people that come to my farm and tell me they want to become a whitetail breeder, but they say that my animals are too expensive for them and they go somewhere else and buy say 10 does from someone else for say $2000-$3000. They said my deer were to expensive and that his were cheaper but what they don’t realize is that for the same amount of money they could have gotten 1 decent animal that would cost them 90% less to take care of and your salability and profit skyrockets. You don’t need a lot of animals to be considered a breeder, just quality ones. Then a year or two later these guys come back and expect me to help them start selling stuff because I was the only one willing to help them! They don't go to functions, they don't participate in the breeding world, but they expect to sell their animals just like everyone else does. It comes off as a lack of effort and this is the main reason that we have so many auctions. People aren't trying to sell their own animals and people are trying to sell animals that should not be bred with. They think they can just throw them in an auction and they will sell themselves. It would be interesting to take a poll on here to see the number of animals that A) you sell yourself B) have another farmer sell for you C) put in auction or D) give away. People are breeding beyond their means, get these huge herds and start liquidating. Well what’s the best way to sell something quickly? Put it up for auction or put it on deerbay.com!
If we don't know what to do with these animals in the first place then why are we breeding so many!? I stand by my words because if you've noticed I have not put animals in auction going on two years now and I've sold out every season! Excuse me for a second as I “HYPEâ€� up my deer herd. I’ve sold 19 does so far this year and probably another ½ dozen for other local farmers and it was all done by word of mouth; going to visit other farmers and pushing my product. Currently I only have 4 ***** left to be sold until next season so even if I put them all in auction I’ll still have under 15% of my total doe sales being auctioned off. So if anyone wants some genetics from Amos Kauffman’s Holly, TM’s mother from Harry or Birchwood’s grandma give me a call LOL ï�Š.
It’s the whole factor of quality over quantity at work here. The better your genetics are and the less you have to sell, the quicker it goes. I admit the last 2 years since my dad has been gone I haven’t gone to as many sales as I used to but I still try and participate as much as I can as I am an active member of NADEFA and PADEFA and visit a lot of farms each year. In retrospect the only point I’m trying to make here is that not every deer is a breeder and these auction companies along with these smaller farmers should not continue to promote this type of animal, either be extremely selective or don’t sell at all. We can’t flood the breeding market with deer hamburger and expect to survive. Do your part, buy up these cheap animals for diner, I mean heck it is a lot cheaper than beef and even better for you. We have to support the people who support us and if you’re not a member in any of the state or national organizations then you shouldn’t be trying to sell animals at such events. If you think deer breeding is to expensive for you, then don’t put the bucks and does together or get them some birth control! But if you are raising quality animals, keep it fresh and bring something new on to your farm each year and send those old ***** somewhere that they wont continue to produce subpar offspring. Maybe we can get together with some of these preserves and help them promote doe hunts to locals to keep everyone happy and the line moving. I think next years PA Deer Farmer picnic should include a contest to see who can make the best venison based product! If I offended anyone or their herds I do apologize, but sheesh, for something to have value someone has to want it. Think of deer like you would an antique… the more rare it is and the better quality the more money you will get for it. So I think my final words shall be that maybe we all need to start focusing on smaller, more productive herds and put those ***** out to pasture that are past their prime.
Deer breed at very high rates. In a matter of three years an open doe and a single buck can turn into 10 animals very quickly, so by that calculation the shooter market has to grow by 5x every 3 breeding seasons just to keep up with the growing deer population even if we were to disallow new farmers. Personally I think that would be the worst thing for all of us if we weren't allowed to get new farmers started because your end market just got cut in half! The point I'm trying to make is that there needs to be two classifications in our business... Breeders and Hobbyist. The breeder is someone who spends good money on their animals and dedicates their time to advertising, meeting farmers, ect. The hobbyist is someone who puts whitetail deer in their back yard and lets the males and females interact during the fall season and then calls people like me up in the spring to sell their animals because they don't know what to do with them. I guess the best way to make this understandable is compare deer to say dogs. There is a very high end market for dog breeding and just like the deer certain people make a lot of money from it. But unlike the deer there are in a lot of cases these “hobbyist� that get their females pregnant and give away all of the offspring because they don’t know what to do with them. At last check our house pets feed bills are higher than the ones outside and remember that little number I threw up before on how much money you would save per year on each animal that you aren’t trying to make a living off of. I don’t know how to make it any simpler than not every deer is a breeder and for lack of a better term a lot of them are “mutts� that shouldn’t be bred or their offspring should be given away.
As far as the shooter market goes if we continue to produce these bigger and better animals of course the pricing will come down because it’s a matter of availability. Who wouldn’t take a little less money for their animals each year just to know that you will be able to sell them for many years to come. At this point we can all agree that growing a 200� buck is fairly easy and cheap. The 200� are selling for around a $5000 average and it takes no more than $2000 to get them to that point. You tell me in what other farming related business can you more than double your money on every crop that passes through your hands. If you ask me, we are very lucky that prices have been as high as they are for so long. We have to take a reality check sometimes to see where we actually are.
The thing that drives me absolutely insane are the people that come to my farm and tell me they want to become a whitetail breeder, but they say that my animals are too expensive for them and they go somewhere else and buy say 10 does from someone else for say $2000-$3000. They said my deer were to expensive and that his were cheaper but what they don’t realize is that for the same amount of money they could have gotten 1 decent animal that would cost them 90% less to take care of and your salability and profit skyrockets. You don’t need a lot of animals to be considered a breeder, just quality ones. Then a year or two later these guys come back and expect me to help them start selling stuff because I was the only one willing to help them! They don't go to functions, they don't participate in the breeding world, but they expect to sell their animals just like everyone else does. It comes off as a lack of effort and this is the main reason that we have so many auctions. People aren't trying to sell their own animals and people are trying to sell animals that should not be bred with. They think they can just throw them in an auction and they will sell themselves. It would be interesting to take a poll on here to see the number of animals that A) you sell yourself B) have another farmer sell for you C) put in auction or D) give away. People are breeding beyond their means, get these huge herds and start liquidating. Well what’s the best way to sell something quickly? Put it up for auction or put it on deerbay.com!
If we don't know what to do with these animals in the first place then why are we breeding so many!? I stand by my words because if you've noticed I have not put animals in auction going on two years now and I've sold out every season! Excuse me for a second as I “HYPEâ€� up my deer herd. I’ve sold 19 does so far this year and probably another ½ dozen for other local farmers and it was all done by word of mouth; going to visit other farmers and pushing my product. Currently I only have 4 ***** left to be sold until next season so even if I put them all in auction I’ll still have under 15% of my total doe sales being auctioned off. So if anyone wants some genetics from Amos Kauffman’s Holly, TM’s mother from Harry or Birchwood’s grandma give me a call LOL ï�Š.
It’s the whole factor of quality over quantity at work here. The better your genetics are and the less you have to sell, the quicker it goes. I admit the last 2 years since my dad has been gone I haven’t gone to as many sales as I used to but I still try and participate as much as I can as I am an active member of NADEFA and PADEFA and visit a lot of farms each year. In retrospect the only point I’m trying to make here is that not every deer is a breeder and these auction companies along with these smaller farmers should not continue to promote this type of animal, either be extremely selective or don’t sell at all. We can’t flood the breeding market with deer hamburger and expect to survive. Do your part, buy up these cheap animals for diner, I mean heck it is a lot cheaper than beef and even better for you. We have to support the people who support us and if you’re not a member in any of the state or national organizations then you shouldn’t be trying to sell animals at such events. If you think deer breeding is to expensive for you, then don’t put the bucks and does together or get them some birth control! But if you are raising quality animals, keep it fresh and bring something new on to your farm each year and send those old ***** somewhere that they wont continue to produce subpar offspring. Maybe we can get together with some of these preserves and help them promote doe hunts to locals to keep everyone happy and the line moving. I think next years PA Deer Farmer picnic should include a contest to see who can make the best venison based product! If I offended anyone or their herds I do apologize, but sheesh, for something to have value someone has to want it. Think of deer like you would an antique… the more rare it is and the better quality the more money you will get for it. So I think my final words shall be that maybe we all need to start focusing on smaller, more productive herds and put those ***** out to pasture that are past their prime.
