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Input wanted for new semen policy

Joined Aug 2009
45 Posts | 0+
I am looking for constructive input and responses to an idea I have been tossing around in my head the last few months. If someone else has thought of this before, I apologize for "stealing" it. However, no one has to my knowledge. This policy is not set in stone, as I would like feedback before I fine tune it and move forward with it.



Here it is. I am thinking of starting to sell semen from my bucks as a "per breeding" format. Since semen splitting started, no one selling has given anyone incentive to NOT split. Pretty much the standard today is sellers want the buyers to split the straws to no more than 2 does. If that is the case, then the guys who are breeding vaginally and using full straws are at a disadvantage to those doing LAP AI and splitting it. Therefore, they have financial incentive to start LAP AI'ing, so as too split (more successfully). Under my plan, the semen would be priced based on how many does were getting bred using that straw. For instance, Rolex semen is priced on the farm at 10,000/straw. That price is based in part, assuming it will breed two does. If someone comes to me and says they want to use a full straw and breed one doe, then I would be able to sell them the straw at 5,000/straw. However, if someone came to me and wanted to buy one straw to breed three does, I would charge them 15,000 for the straw. (5,000 x 3) This policy would put everyone on the same playing field with what it cost them per doe to breed. Also, this policy would take away anyones incentive to "oversplit" the semen. Actually, I can't see where anyone would want or need to split straws under this policy. Unfortunately, there would have to be a semen agreement between the buyer and seller. I would have liked to stay away from this, but looks like that is not possible in today's world. :(



I hope this makes sense. (I think sometimes my ideas are easier to understand before they hit paper.) If anyone would like clarification or to discuss this, please call me @ 937-869-0494



Curt Waldvogel
 
BESTidea i heard in long time great idea. great for little guys.thats true but im sure nowdays it dont take long to get a reputation only ones opinion DC
 
The only thing I can think of is the guy splitting it 3 ways is also taking a risk splitting it that many ways? Also...like you mentioned...there will always be people out there buying that straw from you for $5000 and trying to get around the contract to sell it for more.
 
It will still all come down to the honest and integrity of the buyers....but if someone buy's one straw and has 12+ offspring for sale... the jig is up
 
Curt,

With what you have explained if I was going to breed 3 deer I would purchase 3/5000.00 (one doe to a full straw)straws and not a single 10,000.00 straw this would I hope help to assure conception... That is a draw back possibly of the plan, If I am going to sign a contract under this plan I would require 3 seperate straws for 3 seperate breedings



If this is a problem you could discount a straw based on the number of breedings example, 5, 000.00 to breed one doe, 9,000.00 to breed 2 does, or 13,000.00 to breed 3 does.?????? utilizing the same straw
 
You got me thinking, you mentioned no one selling has given any incentive not to split straws........What about this as an incentive, Sell the 10,000.00 straw for 50% (5,000.00) with a contract that it cannot be split period...... so if a person wants to breed 2 deer he has to spend 10,000.00..... for the second straw, you can now limit number of straws sold based on single breedings and an average of 2 fawns per breeding. You would be selling semen with incentive of increased conception rates, that is one problem i have always thought about with the contract that allows splitting ( and I have signed some and abide by them) but you are being asked to adhere to a contract with no gurantee of success, with what i mention above you are still not offering a qurantee but you are doing everything possible to help insure conception by only allowing 1 straw to breed 1 doe..... The more I think about this the more I like it (I Think) ???????
 
I would discuss the possibilities of guaranteed conception, and have already with John Ward. I am apprehensive to unilaterally guaranteeing it based on the fact that many folks have a lower conception rate than desired. Should I have to expose myself to risk because they don't have a better conception rate? Just one of many thoughts on that.
 
I understand everyone's point but it kinda sounds like how the tax code got started. It started out simple now look what we have. When a straw is split, the statistical chances of conception go down and the potential semen investment per offspring go up. That's a risk the breeder takes. It could go either way.



I say sell semen for what the market will bear and leave the risk and other worries to the buyer. Besides, who is going to police it? Make life simple, have a flat tax.
 
Curt

NO YOU SHOULD NOT and Dont get me wrong, If I was selling semen I would not want to offer a gurantee either as some farms conception rates are very low and it has nothing to do with the quality of semen, our farm has experienced 100% conception the last 2 years and I believe based on all appearances we are looking at 3 years in a row...fingers crossed



What I was saying an incentive for producer to eliminate the splitting of straws that instead of a contract that allowed splits where conception rates might be affected how about a contract with NO splits and reduce the price of the semen, A normal semen draw will result in ? number of straws and most producers are limiting sales to 10-25 straws etc.... so instead of selling 25 you now sell 50 make the same money as a supplier and increase conception rates on farms that might typically have low rates......just like your original post these are just some thoughts.... but it does give the incentive to stop splitting straws that you originally talked about.... their might be negatives to this idea its is not well thought out
 
I think it is impossible to stop someone from splitting a straw if that is what they intend to do no matter how many contracts they sign. This is something that no one can control. What are the penalties for breeching a contract? This is if the person gets caught. I think if you try to strcuture something like you mentioned you are just leaving the door open for the dishonest to take advantage of you.......and the honest guy will somehow probably get screwed..............atleast thats the way it usually works........but don't get me wrong the honest man always comes out on top in the end!!
 
Curt,



What if all straws were 1/4cc straws making it harder to split the straws. Most 1/2cc straws are split 2 times and for those using Lap AI they are splitting straws 3 to 4 times I no someone that split Maxbo Hardcore 6 times this past year, but I have be told by a few vets that 1/4cc straws are hard to split.
 
roughcountrywhitetails said:
Curt,



What if all straws were 1/4cc straws making it harder to split the straws. Most 1/2cc straws are split 2 times and for those using Lap AI they are splitting straws 3 to 4 times I no someone that split Maxbo Hardcore 6 times this past year, but I have be told by a few vets that 1/4cc straws are hard to split.



It is my understanding that 1/4cc straws actually provide higher conception rates based on studies done in Canada. Again this is just my understanding, but apparently 1/4cc straws freeze more effectively and there is better post thaw percentages from semen froze in 1/4cc straws.

Note: The count of the number of sperm packed into a 1/4cc straw is the same as a 1/2cc straw. It just has more extender used during the packing.
 
Now this 1/4cc straw might be the ticket. the only way to control it is by doing in in this way...not by trusting the person that purchases it. If
 
Roger,

Your info is correct. Most vets doing LAP AI use 1/4cc equipment anyway. I haven't figured out why we as deer farmers use 1/2cc straws?



Curt,

I think your concept is an inventive way to market and sell a product. It certainly adapts to a broader client base...great idea!
 
When I set up semen to have 40 million semen per 1cc I believe it will make a semen count of 10 million per 1/4cc as I should be able to make four straws per one cc. I personally don't make 1/4 cc straws anymore as I like the higher semen count with the 1/2cc straws I make.



If I use 1/2cc straws I should have 20 million per 1/2 cc straw and will only be able to make two straws from the one cc. I don't double my extender just to make more straws. I believe this helps my conception rate.



The semen count was based on 40 million per one cc and will stay constant for that one cc but would depend on straw size for number of semen per straw.



Only if you double the extender to 2cc when using 1/2cc straws would the semen count stay constant at the 40 million per cc. Just how I look at it.
 
ddwhitetails said:
Now this 1/4cc straw might be the ticket. the only way to control it is by doing in in this way...not by trusting the person that purchases it. If



Curt,



Like your idea of selling breeding per doe wish their was way to offer guarantee conception. One idea to keep control would be to have certified AI rep cover semen storage, deliver and AI doe. After required days blood would be tested for conception. Keep in mind that the person who purchases a $5,000 breed than builds a better cross can flood the market by not selling semen by the breed.



Scott



Dennis,



1/4 cc straws still can be split. Last 2 years people (not Apple Creek) have been testing sexed semen at 3,000,000 per straw with conception. Many still pack 1/4 cc straws at 30-50,000,000.



Keep the ideas flowing this can only help deer farming.

 
Josh said:
Roger,

Your info is correct. Most vets doing LAP AI use 1/4cc equipment anyway. I haven't figured out why we as deer farmers use 1/2cc straws?



For some reason Dr Kroll started the whole 1/2cc craze many years ago.



1/4cc straws can indeed be split many times as well.
 
Why not just make your straws in single dose units for lap? How many cells does it take

to get a doe to take? If i have never had a ai baby are you going to sell me a straw and

guarantee conception? If i buy a straw and i dont get a fawn do i get my money back?

I myself love it when people use our bucks and I hope they all grow monsters. I got into

this because a passion for Whitetail Deer and have got to know a lot of great people who

share my same ideals and passion. But this this ideal sounds a little one sided....