Nadefa antler contest

Pure deer I am not angry never was....I am absolutely completely chilled I promise you.......I agree that both measurements would be interesting and would give some credit to animals that would otherwise not get it under the current scoring methods. I don't think there is a right answer here......but having an elected panel that was appropriately trained would be beneficial to the industry as a whole for officially scoring the bucks. Problem is it will cost money to do this.....

SCI scoring will always be the accepted method.....a combination of both SCI and water displacement would be interesting. B&C measures symmetry....don't know why that matters. I guess if you drive a Ford truck with a 3 1/2 quart engine, that's how you would measure it ....but I'm thinking cc would sound better.

Good news dd glad alls well.



Why are so many worried about the score!? Shouldnt it just come down to look and production???



Why not just use the BC system but not call it BC call it Nadefa which then takes out the subjective equation which seems to be causing the problems... but then again the SCI is the system that except our industry allowing it to be entered in the SCI.



Ahhhhhh second thoughts: I think I like the the current system LITTLE, MEDIUM LITTLE, BIG, X-BIG, HUGE, X-HUGE AND IN SOME CASES XX-HUGE. I like!!!!



I dont really have any probs with the current practices. If I look at a deer and it looks like the score it says...I gots no probs with it.



I just cant make up my mind

I thought symmetry is what a good whitetail buck is all about. Dont you want a buck that is as close to the same from side to side as you can get. Hunter's will buy a buck by the inch not volume. Most will buy semen from a buck or a buck because they like his look or his production, not because he has no beam length, no tine length but has a ton of massed clump's that equal volume. Or any way I will, no beam length, no tine length or no typical frame in the mix somewhere then I am not interested. I dont even think advertised score meen's all that much. I was so disapointed in a few of the big guy's when I seen them in person and then impressed with several other's that are advertised as much smaller but have the most awesome frame you could ever ask for on a whitetail they were true big buck's. I think it would be great to use the volume system as well for those that want it done, but in the end it's just real inch's of good looking antler that most are after.

ikoff said:

Water displacement has nothing to do with mass/weight....but it's a measurement of volume. The advantage to water displacement is there isn't any judgement calls. I think it would be interesting to see BOTH measurements together.

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I have to disagree, on the surface some would say that some antlers are more dense than others, or that some antlers are more honeycombed than others, and weigh less. This is true of antlers that are off of the buck, but when that antler is on the buck it is full of blood, and the weight (density) of blood will be very similiar to that of the calcified portion of antler. Possibly in the case of white deer, they may have air in place of blood (poor blonde joke). So I do believe that the volume (displacement by water) and weight of the antlers on the buck, would be highly correlated.



Much discussion of SCI vs B&C has occured. There are differences between the two, but even when 99% of breeders use B&C, they use "B&C gross". Sorry but there is no such thing as B&C gross.



Many that want to argue the merits of B&C vs SCI do not know both systems. The differences are not that great.



The true problem is using the SCI system correctly. Many of these scores that are vary drasticlly between SCI scorers is not because of the inaccuarcy of the SCI sytem, it is because of inaccuracy or inexperience of the SCI scorer. Notice, I did not say bias or dishonesty.



If changes are to be made to the "system", then SCI should be involved. I think that they will be very hesitant to change, but I could be wrong.



One suggestion that I might make, is when state associations are having meetings or conventions, they should offer a scroing seminar or workshop conducted by the SCI personel.



Ray Favero

I would never support B&C, they DO NOT support high fence hunting. SCI DOES, besides that, B&C goes only by net score, meaning has to be the same on both sides to get the inches. Why would you take away inches for something the buck grew, isn't that what we are all after, high fence and free range, growing antler inches? Same size on both sides is the least thing anybody is going to care about while hunting, no one will pass a giant buck because hhe has different length points on each side so why would anybody give a crap about the net score. I've never met anyone who thought the net score was the important part of a bucks score, everyone tells how big it was in GROSS INCHES. The only thing net is good for is fish!!! Basically SCI takes the total gross score and doesn't deduct inches from one side to the next, B&C gross score before you deduct the difference in sides is basically the same as the total SCI score. I think the palmation measurement and judgement call is what is wrong with the whole SCI system and causes scores to be different from one person to the next. If they would just measure the total circumference in between points coming off of the main beam palmated or round you would end up ALOT closer to every scorer having the same amount of inches. Mass is mass, round or palmated. And take the point length from the line drawn across the top of the main beam in between the points(just as its drawn out on the score sheet), It should be pretty simple I think if they would keep it simple. Any time you have something that has to be decided by what one person thinks like whats considered palmation, where to start measuring the length of a point with palmation is going to lead to problems and different scores every time. I personally buy deer on the looks of the breeder bucks frame, mass and most impotantly the WOW factor. X-Factor has palmation and probably hurts his score but to me he still has that impressive WOW factor look, mass, drops and frame I personally love.





Cody Warne

www.warneranches.com

i thaught i got second as well but the guy handing me the plaque didnt know so im sure it was 2nd or 3rd i was just happy and figured id find out when i get the plaque

,, ( all great bucks )) !!

Thanks for all the kind words on king of the mountain very much appreciated . He is my buddy after loosing samson 28 years ago i kinda lost touch with breeding end and focused on the hunting side . King has for sure got a sparkle back about trying to grow big deer . About the s c i scorers they were all top notch master scorers. I took there 4 hour class and it to was great .i had only king to go by with my evaluation i did not check anyone elses deer and absolutly would never do that.i never told this to anyone but king in full velvet was 557 me and my dad scored him but new he would shrink and he dryed down to the sci 523 4/8 in hard horn .having been official b/c scorer for state of ill for 28 years and way to many deer i have always try to stay on the bottom side .the fastest way to loose a client is over score his deer.with that being said i am 100 percent confident king will score a little higher b/c .but who cares after watching a t v show on the outdoor channel by the boone and crocket club i thrw up and vowed to never use that anti high fence system again.folks there is no difference little bit on circumferences but not enough to mater.i do think if you have a big deer proly good practice to nadefa panel score him dean sullins good friend lead me threw all that and helped me a ton.i hope everyone grows 700 inch deer this year is it reality no but lets have fun trying .the most important thing is try to watch one of those b c hunting shows that will force you to pick up the phone and join s c i do it now . Again i whispered those kind words you all said about king in his ear this morning he eat another marshmello and said thanks special thanks to scott russ and wayne for buying semen rights. Jerry stafford 618-771-3992

You are so right on the score of a deer.I hope he goes 600 plus for you this year.You never led anyone wrong on the score of King of the Mountain.

Glad some had their bucks scored at nadefa wish all these big nontypicals would have been scored. Thanks to all that did as far as I am conserned you guys are the only ones with scores that count.

King of the Mountain and Jerry Stafford are both first class.

Jerry has it going on for sure,hope him the best.

Jerry Jerry he's my man. Yah Jerry.

Hey rocks n racks nice pics as always high quality and those bucks are big to.hope everyone grows a giant .thx much jerry

And also welcome to the deer world farmer brown with those deer you have you are way way ahead of the game you will have a giant sooner than you think

Congrats to billy davis got twin buck fawns superwide ranger on top king on bottom