Our Industry, 8000 Deer Farmers, Only 300 Attend Auctions

The way it works if I can make it understandable. If the seller does not think his deer or lot is bringing enough. The seller can bid on his own lot. If the seller is last bidder of his own lot the auction charges seller (him) 4% as high bidder instead of the 10%. if some one else would have been high bidder.

Another reason I like it, it eliminates circle bidding to run a lot up on an unsuspecting buyer. Some reading this you may be thinking the seller is running his own lot up. Yes it may seem that way. The result is the same but at least you know who you are bidding against. Know that all sellers consigning their lots to a sale, do this so their lots will be sold and not to buy them back. Most of us would rather be out bid by the seller who has confidence in his product and a price in mind that he is willing to let it go. Think of it bartering auction style. When one of the sellers buddies is in the stands bumping up (not bidding) the price, it is called deception. If this was put into practice it would clean up allot of problems and games that are out of the auction companies control. The perfect sale is when auctions connect sellers to buyers.

H&M Whitetails said:

wisdom I liked that 4% did the buyer that lost the buy back get maybe 2% and the actioner get 2% (just a idea) it was his lost too I don't think the seller would care where his 4% went too . he just feels that his item is worth more and it should be protected bu when you buy a couple of deer because you know its a good buy and you cant win beacause of no sale it stinks .if I got a couple of 2% off of nbuy backs that day i know I would bid higher on the next ones, And I like how texians take the edge off at these social events



thanks ed

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I am sure they had root beer. Those Texans jump into things with both feet. But I do not think root beer was the choice of drink.

If you ever want to stimulate a good conversation with a Texan. Just ask them why they voted in Oboma

IndependenceRanch said:

A keg in the back of the room! Now we are talking

They do serve Root Beer as well right

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"wobbley pop"

I say have a no reserve auction once a year.You put an animal in to sell and it sell's no question's.If you are a guy just dumpin off animals that need to go,then there gone if you have animal's that the industry want's they will sell.Its no different than the deer that are on the exchange now the ones that have reserves are not selling and the no reserves are and the ones that people want are getting pretty decent bids!I think most of the good breeders are makin good deer will sell for good money either way and the guy raisein for shooters could sell also and that would bring both groups together at the auction!!

No one ever knows what things actually sell for on Whitetail Exchange - final sale prices aren't posted the way they are for most live auctions. Auctions are OK - but we really don't participate in many. We buy some semen each year to mix up our genetics and actually, we're pretty happy with the deer we are producing. We'd produce deer like Blue River and WRW Rex everyday of the week - whether we sell them as breeders or on our hunting ranch. I don't think everyone has 284" two year olds - so that works for us.

No doubt you guy's have some awsome deer and i hope to meet someday and beg and plead and i'm sure write a check for one of those jack doe's.You really hit it with what your doin with them!I just thought they wanted to get more people to auctions that would be the way.No reserve,breeder market,shooter market you bring it,you sell it and let the deer's backgroud decide what it bring's.I think once a year you would see a mass of people at the salebarn!!!

If there is going to be a reserve on a lot the auction should start at that price if there are no bids then move on. If the seller know's he won't take less then say $5000 for his lot then it should start at $5000 if you bid and you are the high bidder the deer is yours.



This would save a lot of time auctions that have lot after lot no selling then it gets to be a long day.



The time this would save could give you room to put 50 or 60 more lots in the auction.

I just went and looked at the W.E. site because I haven't been on there in a while to see what was going on. I didn't see any animals on there getting good bids. Maybe there was some and they sold already so I missed seeing what was there. I did see some with bids of $150 and $160 though.

Here is my question. I TRULY am not trying to start a fight here with this question. But if an animal sells for say $500 how does the seller make any money on the deal?

15 years ago was a different story. Feed was much cheaper than it is now. Right around $400 per ton. We didn't have the expensive farm registration fees we do now which just was paid recently for our farm and was $325 for one year. Vet bills weren't as high. We didn't have all the cost with testing for every stinking little thing. TB, Bruc, CWD, and who knows what is coming next. Vaccinations for everyone each year.

If I call my vet to my farm for a shipping cert the bill at a minimum will be $150 then figure in the cost of the feed you have in the animal. God forbid you bottle fed it because the cost of the milk has to be around $200 per fawn, and your time should be worth something as well. If you don't have bottle fed tame deer that can be handled with ease or a handling facility (which cost money to build) then you may have to dart the deer to load it. There is another $65 for a bottle of Telazol and the added Xylazine and the dart. Heck $65 is most likely too low but lets go with it.

Folks this all adds up. Even if you don't have much invested in your genetics with higher priced semen and breeding does it still seems hard to think that selling an animal for such low prices can come out.

I know some say that whatever they get helps pay the feed bill. But I wonder about this. I actually wonder if guys would be better off eating their does fawns in fall instead of bottle feeding them, and having the costs associated with selling them like vet bills, shipping certs, and drugs. Again this is a question for those who are selling deer at these low prices. Have you run the numbers and accounted for each cost and does it really come out then?

Same question for those who want a venison market. Has anyone actually figured out what you have in each doe that would go to slaughter vs what you would get for the slaughtered animal?

Again I am actually curious about these things and not wanting a fight. This isn't about breeder vs shooter stuff. I am just curious what everyone feels they have in each doe at various ages and what prices they need to break even when selling. Without putting a calculator to it and figuring it out myself I just have a hard time seeing any profits at those prices.

Roger,



You may find it hard to believe but I know a breeder that never sells a doe for more than $500 and most of the time not more than $100 and he is making more money then some do with there high end deer.



How does he do it? He bought 15 bred doe's for $450 per doe out of some solid 200" no name genetics and then bought a breeder buck for $3500 for a total of $10250 (how many of us have deer that would cost that much each).



Anyway I think he keeps around 20 adult doe on his farm each year now. He does not test for tb or bruc. so there is know cost there he has 10 shooter buck avg. each year and get $35000 on avg. each year for those buck. each year he will keep no more then 5 of the doe fawns (make jerky out of any of the others when they are 3 months old.) then he will sell 4 or 5 audlt doe's as shooters for $100 a piece.



So he makes $35500 on avg. each year. with a feed cost of about $10000 each year. So he nets $25500 each year from his deer. Its not a lot of money but this guy retired at 45 from the service 11 years ago when he got his first deer and only has deer because he enjoys them. and hoped to make just a little on them to cover the feed bill.

Roger you are so right concerning selling deer cheap or for a lot less than a breeder has invested in them. I to have this problem and so does most breeders I know, even the big ones. That is why I posted a thread to trade doe fawns for shooters. This year we will have about 75 doe fawns born. We only need 25 doe fawns to replace other breeding does to maintain our heard level.

I feel most breeders would rather sell does at a loss than put more money into them and sell it a year or to later at a greater loss.

Also does are like bucks. If you have a group of buck fawns. When they mature and are sold. Some will be sold at a loss. Some of the bucks are sold for a fair price. Then you have one or two that are worth more than the whole group. So what we have to look at the average.

Lets be honest. There are basically two types of breeders. One who raises deer because they just like having deer and being around deer. They wait in anticipation of new fawns, bottle feeding, antler growth, the hardened antlers and the shedding of antlers. The second group of breeders is just like the first group except when a fawn is born or dies they think of what was made or lost. When they look at their bucks they see antlers and dollar signs

There are allot of breeders out there that when they say they love deer farming, They are not just saying it, they are proving it. They can back it up by the fact the deer are still in their pens after loosing money year after year after year.

I thing most of the one's on the exchange didn't get bid's on an earlier sale and now they are on there at no reserve.Either they must move them because they have to many or they are taking their program in a different direction.If they are big enough and sold lot's of deer they probable made enough profit on the other's to let them go cheaper.It all comes out in the end i guess.Either way they might not be the best of breeding's, they will be a good deal for someone!!

Well, we just might sell one or two of those Jack does this next year Four Season. Keep in touch.



The guy that doesn't have TB status - I'm not sure how he moves deer - he must have to test each one when he moves it. Brucellosis testing is not required - just one test to move to another state. We've imposed that requirement on ourselves to be certified - just one test is all it takes to move them out of state period - and none in state.



We aren't going to give our genetics away - we'd rather shoot them on the hunt ranch or donate the meat. It seems like it just brings the value of your herd down and then people expect those prices all the time. Everyone has to do what is right for them and makes the money they need.

Wild River,



In MO. you can move deer with in the state without tb or bruc. test and because this guy only sells to hunting ranches within the state there is no need to test.

roughcountrywhitetails said:

Roger,



You may find it hard to believe but I know a breeder that never sells a doe for more than $500 and most of the time not more than $100 and he is making more money then some do with there high end deer.



How does he do it? He bought 15 bred doe's for $450 per doe out of some solid 200" no name genetics and then bought a breeder buck for $3500 for a total of $10250 (how many of us have deer that would cost that much each).



Anyway I think he keeps around 20 adult doe on his farm each year now. He does not test for tb or bruc. so there is know cost there he has 10 shooter buck avg. each year and get $35000 on avg. each year for those buck. each year he will keep no more then 5 of the doe fawns (make jerky out of any of the others when they are 3 months old.) then he will sell 4 or 5 audlt doe's as shooters for $100 a piece.



So he makes $35500 on avg. each year. with a feed cost of about $10000 each year. So he nets $25500 each year from his deer. Its not a lot of money but this guy retired at 45 from the service 11 years ago when he got his first deer and only has deer because he enjoys them. and hoped to make just a little on them to cover the feed bill.

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Roughcountry, Thanks for the reply. I have no doubt that money can be made in the shooter market like your friend is doing. The money numbers for growing and selling shooters wasn't what I was interested in.

I am more interested in the doe selling. If he sells a doe for $100 each I just can't see how he can make any money to justify the effort of selling her.

Now I see later in the discussion where the state doesn't make him TB test so there is a cost he doesn't have to cover. I am surprised the state allows movement without TB testing but that is a whole other topic.

Still to get the vet out to inspect and issue a shipping cert costs money. If I sold a doe for $100 I would lose about $50 just to get the shipping cert done. Not to mention other costs. Now if he sells 5 at a time the costs can be spread over more numbers of deer so then it isn't so much of a loss. Also he is actually doing what I had said about eating the fawns come fall. So he isn't trying to sell all his does and doe fawns as much as he moves out the few adults that he is replacing each year.

Well I am glad it works for him. Again I have no doubt a program like his works for producing shooter bucks at a profit. When someone "new" in the industry asks me about buying deer I always ask what their goals are. If their goal is to only raise shooters and eat the does each fall then I always recommend doing what your friend does. But if they want to sell their extra does then I recommend bloodlines that hold value in the breeder markets so they aren't selling does for $100 each.

Thanks again for the reply.



Wild Rivers I get what your saying about not giving away your genetics also. I feel the same way. I do realize that not all deer have the same value. I have a couple of does that I will sell pretty cheap compared to the rest of my herd. Some deer just have more value than others.

Heck I happen to have two does that need to go this year. I know they don't have much value in the industry and they aren't bottle fed either. (The last of the non-tame does left to go) They are all 200" plus genetics and have produced good sons but I have no use for them any more. Since this fall we are doing a whole herd TB and Bruc test the vet will be here anyway. So getting shipping certs and loading them on the trailer will be rather cheap so this is the year they have to go. In a case like this one I can see letting them go for maybe $800 to a $1,000 just to move them out. But that is pretty much the end of deer that cheap then. After that they are worth more to me or they can just go in the freezer.

Roger,



I see what your saying and I agree I just wanted to show the other side of it and how it can work.



Also in MO. to move deer with in the state not only do you not need tb or bruc. testing but you do not need a shipping cert. either. (we only need the shipping cert. to move out of the state)



I also saw where you said it cost you over $300 for your permit each year it is only $50 per year down here and a shipping cert. to move a deer out of state only cost around $10 from the vet.

Good luck getting that out of them. The market is so flooded with does. Take a look at whitetail exchange even doe with good bloodlinrs aren;t being sold their have been some really good doe on there and nobody is even bidding. This is do to the industry producing to many deer with out enough outlets. We really need to stick together and try to fix this before it is to late.The focus needs to be new hunters and not new farmers cause that just produces more deer that the industry already has to many of. I no of more guys that can't get rid of shooters for a fair price than i do of preserves that can't find them. Everyone needs to get involved to help fix what needs to be fixed it seems we already have a couple of guys willing to head this up so why not give them some support.

The no TB testing,no Bruc testing only applies to farms who do not have tested herds! Thus they have no TB,BRUC Status.For a farm to buy these non-tested deer in the state and bring them into a tested herd,there are requierments and testing to be done!

Vigil,I don't think he'll have any problem at all! I don't think to many does in the industry is the exchanges problem, but thats just my 2 cents.

Whats that supposed to mean don't understand

I respect your opinion . Looking at it from the other side of the fence my neighbor has 50+ open does. He can not afford to feed them and he can not sell them and He can not afford any more doe fawns from them. Five years ago he was one of the top breeders

Whitetail Sanctuary said:

Vigil,I don't think he'll have any problem at all! I don't think to many does in the industry is the exchanges problem, but thats just my 2 cents.

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