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buckeyewta said:
Please dont resort to shooting bucks out of your pen. It is not what we want for the future of the industry. There is a demand for good bucks. Give me a call and i will help you sell your bucks for a fair price.



I don't think anyone "wants" to do that, unfortunately there comes a time when bills need to be paid and you are left no choice. It's all a result of the economy that we are in. This industry is no different than any other industry in that when the economy tanks, sales/profits take a hit and you have to find a way to make it through or you might end up being one of the millions of others w/o work right now.
 
Mark - so you expect me to believe that the fact I pointed his statement out is what's really going to make people notice? Come on, you're not that naive.

Frankly, I don't consider a 22" spread to be all that impressive.

I'll leave the rest of my comments out as I don't care to argue over a keyboard.
 
WillPenn Whitetails said:
Mark - so you expect me to believe that the fact I pointed his statement out is what's really going to make people notice? Come on, you're not that naive.

Frankly, I don't consider a 22" spread to be all that impressive.

I'll leave the rest of my comments out as I don't care to argue over a keyboard.



With your first sentence, you have totally taken out of context what I said.



I did NOT at all say it's ''what's really going to make people notice''.



My comment I thought was very clear!

I stated that the how and what, and most importantly 'the where' you said what you said ''only INCREASED THE POTENTIAL for the danger you expressed''...much like your further comments above have. Keep putting light on anything and it will only becomes more and more exposed.



I sure hope I never lose any of my appreciation for the 22 inch inside spread on a whitetail buck. You picked the smaller number in my description of spreads...does that mean that 22 is the defining line of ''all that impressive'' for you, or did you pick the smaller number to bolster your postion?



My last statement does not require or need an answer...I'm not trying to take you somewhere into an argument...my last sentence was more of a statement than a question...just sayin
 
WillPenn Whitetails said:
Mark - so you expect me to believe that the fact I pointed his statement out is what's really going to make people notice? Come on, you're not that naive.

Frankly, I don't consider a 22" spread to be all that impressive.

I'll leave the rest of my comments out as I don't care to argue over a keyboard.



At one time in this world a 22in inside spread on a whitetail buck was a sight to behold. Now some say 22in is not that impressive!!! Hence the statement of breeding ourselves out of business. Mike, Not a shot at you. Just a point as to where does it end? 200in was huge at one time along with 22 inch spread. Now 600in and 700in with 30 inch plus spread. As we push the bar at the top end something is going to have to give. Not all can make those 6s and 7s with 30in spreads and if all say that a deer the size that most people make is not that impressive, Well where does that leave most of us?
 
Wow. Some of you guys really love to debate here! Me... not so much. So I will bow out of this little conversation before it gets ugly.

Mark - if you knew me at all, you would realize that I have nothing but the utmost respect for our industry, and that I've worked very hard to serve it to the best of my ability.

My original intent and position remain the same. Not a good idea to be discussing such matters on a public forum... PERIOD!
 
WillPenn Whitetails said:
Wow. Some of you guys really love to debate here! Me... not so much. So I will bow out of this little conversation before it gets ugly.

Mark - if you knew me at all, you would realize that I have nothing but the utmost respect for our industry, and that I've worked very hard to serve it to the best of my ability.

My original intent and position remain the same. Not a good idea to be discussing such matters on a public forum... PERIOD!



Michael - I never questioned your respect of the industry or questioned the hard work you've put in to serve it.





Concerning debates - I believe debates can be good...they have the ability to bring right and wrong to the surface, as well as to offer and share different opinions...all of which can help people move in a more positive and confident direction as they navigate towards achievements/goals, and to just generally be more informed on decision making in the future.

That being said, for the debate to remain healthy we must remain respective of each others opinions. Disagreement, in of itself, does not = disrespect.



If I have disrespected anybody, then I am wrong. I have done my best not to do that on these forums, but I am not perfect, so I may have. I fully realize that a time or two I have at least road the line.

I also realize though that a ''bad truth is better than a good lie'', and we can't ignore the elephant in the middle of the road if he's there. Turning our back doesn't make him clear the road.



And Michael, if and when this thread turns ''ugly'', then I'll be bowing out too...
 
" and we can't ignore the elephant in the middle of the road if he's there. Turning our back doesn't make him clear the road."

Very good point Mark.......there are a lot of deer farmers struggling out there and doing their best to make ends meet.......turning our heads and saying there is not a problem is not the answer..........we need to band together and figure out what the best scenario is for everyone. And Mark Mast I Commend you for taking a step in the right direction for doing just that with your offer you made on your previous post!
 
Just about everyone breed's with big framed buck's, why wouldnt you. There are some real nice buck's out there that semen price's are low enough for any farm to use.



And there are other's that I like a lot that I have not used yet like Texas Tea just to name one, just look at the frame on that buck. But more important look at some of his son's. The largest yearling that I, or anyone has ever seen is out of him and on the same farm you will see one of the nicest typical yearling's any where, another one of his son's.



Even when you use the best genetic's out there you will get a not so desireable outcome now and then. Not the buck that preserve's are looking for. I am sure on some farm's it is rare. The sire to the buck I sold that was only 14 inside was over 28 inside at 3, his mother is out of a wide buck and has a nice 2 year old this year that has a nice wide frame.



As far as shooting buck's in my own pen, I do not have plan's to do that. But the one buck that I did I had no choice, he had to go.
 
kurthumphrey said:
Mark, where are these deer located?



Kurt - Sorry for the late reply. I was just reviewing and realized I didn't answer you.



There is only 1 buck left of that caliber that I spoke of. Last fall I began the process of selling out. I'm in Illinois.
 
I don’t want to come across as a “know it all’ because I still have a lot to learn when it comes to the deer farming industry. However, I just wanted to raise a few points.



First, the prices are down and many farms are hurting and that’s unfortunate. However, we are not “entitled” to anything such as past prices for shooters, feed, etc.



It’s a free market and things will fluctuate depending on supply and demand. Drought and the fact that we put our food in our vehicles are a couple factors that affect our feed prices. Better genetics and more choices are a couple factors that affect the deer prices.



However, rather than be discouraged or disgruntled, adapt and overcome! Instead of complaining about how the industry has passed you up, why don’t you start breeding with better genetics to bring your herd up? You wouldn’t expect to win a NASCAR race with a car from the 70’s or 80’s so why would you expect the deer farming industry to be frozen in time? Remember…it’s a buyer’s market so now is the time to increase the genetics in your herd.



As far as excluding new farmers…weren’t you a new deer farmer at one time? I believe if you research, plan, and implement a well thought out strategy you can succeed in any industry, including this one. Try to be the best at whatever you do. If you go into it thinking “I’d like to be a mediocre deer farmer”, you may not profit from your investment as much as you would like. Perhaps, you should consider having them as a hobby rather than a business.



Although experience is invaluable, it doesn’t automatically make you the “best” deer farmer. I believe a new farmer with a great work ethic can become successful in our industry if he/she is willing to research the industry prior to starting, visit and talk to experienced deer farmers, attend sales/auctions to learn the in’s and out’s of the business, network with other successful deer farmers, attend informational meetings, and join their State’s Deer Farming organizations, etc.



This was not targeted at any individual on here; I just think sometimes we feel sorry for ourselves rather than seeking out solutions to our problems.



Lastly, we all complain from time to time, me included. However, one thing we are “entitled” to, is our opinion.
 
Padencreek said:
I don’t want to come across as a “know it all’ because I still have a lot to learn when it comes to the deer farming industry. However, I just wanted to raise a few points.



First, the prices are down and many farms are hurting and that’s unfortunate. However, we are not “entitled” to anything such as past prices for shooters, feed, etc.



It’s a free market and things will fluctuate depending on supply and demand. Drought and the fact that we put our food in our vehicles are a couple factors that affect our feed prices. Better genetics and more choices are a couple factors that affect the deer prices.



However, rather than be discouraged or disgruntled, adapt and overcome! Instead of complaining about how the industry has passed you up, why don’t you start breeding with better genetics to bring your herd up? You wouldn’t expect to win a NASCAR race with a car from the 70’s or 80’s so why would you expect the deer farming industry to be frozen in time? Remember…it’s a buyer’s market so now is the time to increase the genetics in your herd.



As far as excluding new farmers…weren’t you a new deer farmer at one time? I believe if you research, plan, and implement a well thought out strategy you can succeed in any industry, including this one. Try to be the best at whatever you do. If you go into it thinking “I’d like to be a mediocre deer farmer”, you may not profit from your investment as much as you would like. Perhaps, you should consider having them as a hobby rather than a business.



Although experience is invaluable, it doesn’t automatically make you the “best” deer farmer. I believe a new farmer with a great work ethic can become successful in our industry if he/she is willing to research the industry prior to starting, visit and talk to experienced deer farmers, attend sales/auctions to learn the in’s and out’s of the business, network with other successful deer farmers, attend informational meetings, and join their State’s Deer Farming organizations, etc.



This was not targeted at any individual on here; I just think sometimes we feel sorry for ourselves rather than seeking out solutions to our problems.



Lastly, we all complain from time to time, me included. However, one thing we are “entitled” to, is our opinion.



Though you touch on many valid points!.............................Just a reminder..................Just because you buy a fast car.............DOESN'T mean you will know how to DRIVE IT.......................Let alone WIN A RACE with it!
 
How true wayne. Some have a legit bitch about what has happened to them. Some also cant just restart with new animals now because its a buyers market. Why.. Because they cant sell the lower class, highly inflated deer they bought from somebody maybe not so honest. It does no good at times to bitch about things and now many that are getting pounded with poor deer,Low prices,Ehd and crazy grain prices are as you can see on another post, Selling all their deer for $100 and going to exit stage left.

Look on the bright side..We all have our own opinions!!
 
I do think that you can still make money with deer today, may not be as easy as a few year's back. I never bought deer thinking I would get wealthy raising them, I bought deer just because I like deer. I still like deer today, the only thing I can say that I hate about deer farming is EHD. I can deal with the rest of it. This year has been a rough one, we have lost proven doe's that were either live covered or AI'ed to some of the best buck's in the country. At least right now I still have some fawn's left from those doe's. May have been set back a year or two from EHD in this area but we will recover. And I know there will be some great doe's for sale this winter to replace what we have lost. No way would I quit, way to pissed about this nasty virus to do that. Even though I have lost some this year I am lucky, I still have some good doe's and fawn's and good straw's in the tank. And it was just some that I lost not all or near all like most farm's in my area. Over 50% of my deer had EHD this year. I saved several, may have lost the best 2 or 3 that I had and think it was because they had not been on the farm all that long. But I am still lucky a lot of mine just did not get that sick and could be saved rather easy. I would welcome new farm's in my area and would never try to talk anyone that wanted to raise deer out of it. There is a lot of good to go with the bad and I doubt we will ever see a year with such a wide spread loss of animial's like this again. For those that did not see EHD this year I hope that you never do. It's almost time to get ready for AI season, I welcome that and the cool weather that will be here soon.
 
RLAwhitetails said:
I do think that you can still make money with deer today, may not be as easy as a few year's back. I never bought deer thinking I would get wealthy raising them, I bought deer just because I like deer. I still like deer today, the only thing I can say that I hate about deer farming is EHD. I can deal with the rest of it. This year has been a rough one, we have lost proven doe's that were either live covered or AI'ed to some of the best buck's in the country. At least right now I still have some fawn's left from those doe's. May have been set back a year or two from EHD in this area but we will recover. And I know there will be some great doe's for sale this winter to replace what we have lost. No way would I quit, way to pissed about this nasty virus to do that. Even though I have lost some this year I am lucky, I still have some good doe's and fawn's and good straw's in the tank. And it was just some that I lost not all or near all like most farm's in my area. Over 50% of my deer had EHD this year. I saved several, may have lost the best 2 or 3 that I had and think it was because they had not been on the farm all that long. But I am still lucky a lot of mine just did not get that sick and could be saved rather easy. I would welcome new farm's in my area and would never try to talk anyone that wanted to raise deer out of it. There is a lot of good to go with the bad and I doubt we will ever see a year with such a wide spread loss of animial's like this again. For those that did not see EHD this year I hope that you never do. It's almost time to get ready for AI season, I welcome that and the cool weather that will be here soon.



Glad to hear your getting that crap under control or atleast fighting the good fight. We have been in the 30s a few times this month, Hope you guys see it soon!!!
 
we had a 36 degree morning here beginning of the week, close but not enough to freeze anything yet. I am getting nervous, no EHD here yet but a few of the neighboring farms have been hit by it. I really hope it stops, I hope winter comes early for EHD sake.
 
Whatever you guys do, don't move to TX!!! EHD is pretty much a guarantee down here!



Maybe its time to slide just a little bit of TX into some of those Northern girls and give them a fighting chance?



I don't believe in selling something as an EHD cure all but, there is no doubt the TX deer have an immunity built into them!



Hope it all passes quickly for you guys, we will battle it for another couple of months down here!
 

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