I was reading a discussion about sexed semen,and why he was doing it. because of to many does in his preserve.My question is this?Why? would a preserve need to do this when there are lots of breeders out there with shooter bucks to sell to preserves that cant find a place for them.If they could buy most of there shooter bucks at a reasonable price wouldnt it be better to put their time and money into their hunting ranch than trying to raise all their own deer.and then trying to feed all those does that come with it.Im just a small deer farmer and always will be and have followed this industry real closely for a few years now and would like to dive in but everytime I turn arround all I hear is hunting ranches that are tying to raise all there own deer.They love to sell us small guys their does and what ever it might be ,but without the little guys whos going to support nadefa and all the other organizations that keep it going.theres power in numbers , because if the small guy cant get rid of shooter bucks their done.and without numbers across the country you lose your strength.Anybody out there that can set me straight?Am i wrong.
why sexed semen
- Thread starter Jhillierwhitetails
- Start date
Joined Apr 2009
1,428 Posts | 0+
Northeast Wisconsin
From the very start we always intended to raise all the deer we needed for our hunting preserve. We have only bought a few deer in the 12+ years our preserve has been in business. We did think about buying our deer instead of raising them, but we like to be in the breeding stock market as well, so that means you are going to raise some. We just like knowing what we have coming up, being able to plan that way and being in control of the stock we have. We just didn't want to be in a position where we were running around to a zillion places every year buying a few deer here and there. We have a large enough breeding farm so we can raise a lot of deer.
On the flip side I realize a lot of hunt preserves don't have the space to raise a bunch of deer. They have agreements with numerous farmers to supply them with whatever they need and they seem to think it works for them. That's great - different strokes for different folks.
I think from a money standpoint it is pretty much a wash - We spend the money over the year raising them, others spend the money in the fall buying them. We enjoy raising deer and maybe it even does cost us more in the long run - hard to say. BUT we have them now and the facility to raise them and so far - it works.
The sexed semen idea for us was to enable us to have fewer does and still produce the bucks we need. We would be producing less does so we probably wouldn't have a surplus, except maybe the first year or so. We did not have very good luck with the sexed semen this year so it will be on the back burner for a while.
Anyone who is in business has to look at all opportunities to reduce cost and increase profit - it is why we are in business. The sexed semen looked like such an opportunity.
On the flip side I realize a lot of hunt preserves don't have the space to raise a bunch of deer. They have agreements with numerous farmers to supply them with whatever they need and they seem to think it works for them. That's great - different strokes for different folks.
I think from a money standpoint it is pretty much a wash - We spend the money over the year raising them, others spend the money in the fall buying them. We enjoy raising deer and maybe it even does cost us more in the long run - hard to say. BUT we have them now and the facility to raise them and so far - it works.
The sexed semen idea for us was to enable us to have fewer does and still produce the bucks we need. We would be producing less does so we probably wouldn't have a surplus, except maybe the first year or so. We did not have very good luck with the sexed semen this year so it will be on the back burner for a while.
Anyone who is in business has to look at all opportunities to reduce cost and increase profit - it is why we are in business. The sexed semen looked like such an opportunity.
Wild Rivers Whitetails said:
Gary and Jane,
Could you share your results on sexed semen this past year. What would you do different this fall if anything?
Scott
ok I got to respect a reply. If most hunting ranches have that attitude and that seems like where its going from the homework ive done,why do you want to sell your stock to the new farmers and say we need new deer farmers,in this industry ?Ive heard it.Im all for you guys dont get me wrong you need to make a profit and a good living its a lot of work and risk. but play with your breeder deer and sell us your stuff but buy 80% of your shooter bucks. youll get by for awhile like its going but when you need legislation and strength in numbers you all will be on your own because what made this industry what it was wont be their.Instead of a politcian looking and seeing 500 people in his state in the deer business hell see a couple of hunting ranches.I dont make my living doing this and never will but im not real stupid. all for one and one for all
I was hoping my post about our results on the sexed semen was not going to start a debate. I was just wanting to share information to those that might consider doing it in the future and let them know what kind of success could or could not be had. First, I am not the owner of the deer that I work with just the ranch manager, but I know each and every deer on the place and can tell you their personality, pedigree, etc. Second, the Ranch owner and myself LOVE deer...BIG DEER. We basically "shoot" our own bucks to pay for this expensive hobby. This breeding operation was started to improve hunting on the various properties that I manage. We still buy a few deer and alot of semen from various farms around the country. I could go on and on but I think Wild Rivers pretty much said what I am trying to. I have to go now to tend to a buck that broke his skull plate this morning after stray dogs got in the pen...
hey it didnt start a debate about anything its called a discussion and I didnt mean to use your title wild rivers on sexed semen but thought it was a good title for this forum,just wanted to understand this industry a little better. And couldnt understand why the hunting ranches would go that route.,I get it. heard what I expected.Ill just buy their great semen and great does use their websites and shut up.
Lets keep our peace and try to always be open. The last thing we need is to put people on pins and needles expressing their thoughts. Now with that said can I ask Gary and Jane from Wild Rivers Whitetails. Was this successful for you? Would you use sexed semen again?
Thank you
Scott
Thank you
Scott
hey slick willy that thread is in the forum of farm and ranch showcase you know that you were the first to ask on there.I always hear that from the big hitters when theres something you dont want to hear.Im done.
Jhillierwhitetails said:
Jhillerwhitetails,
I'm Just trying to learn the facts After Wild Rivers Posted using sexed semen and offering to sell sexed semen I asked to learn their results. As to keep this peaceful and open we must refrain from personal attacks. I am open to your points and have purchased many shooter bucks over the last 3 years. Their is little to no demand for non pedigree does. So I' keep asking for the results?
Scott
Here is another way of looking towards using sexed semen. I have a yearling doe that was born last June and she was bred last December. She is bagged up and ready to give birth this week. Her mother and grand-mother are no longer with us and her grand-mother's sister (same dam) was also bred as a fawn. They all go back to one huge doe fawn I bottle-fed seven years ago. This doe has been in Ohio for four years and has had triplets every year and she has always been a great mother and weaned all her fawns. It will be another year or two before she proves her worth since her first two sets of triplets were all doe fawns. So far all the females to come out of her are yet to produce a single buck fawn born on my farm.
To say I am looking forward to a single buck fawn from the great grand-daughter would be the understatement of the year. I don't like culling 200" @ 2 genetics, but I also have the womb-sister of this doe and two other twin sister yearlings that all go back to that big fawn producer in Ohio. It would not be cost effective to A.I. more than a handful of deer using cervical A.I. to sexed semen. At this point I would just like to see a fawn born with less than two holes in it from this select group of females regardless of the cost. In this case sexed semen could be the best way to get the desired result before I get arthritis from waiting. By the way, that doe in Ohio had triplet buck fawns this year. I am glad because this Ohio breeder deserved it.
To say I am looking forward to a single buck fawn from the great grand-daughter would be the understatement of the year. I don't like culling 200" @ 2 genetics, but I also have the womb-sister of this doe and two other twin sister yearlings that all go back to that big fawn producer in Ohio. It would not be cost effective to A.I. more than a handful of deer using cervical A.I. to sexed semen. At this point I would just like to see a fawn born with less than two holes in it from this select group of females regardless of the cost. In this case sexed semen could be the best way to get the desired result before I get arthritis from waiting. By the way, that doe in Ohio had triplet buck fawns this year. I am glad because this Ohio breeder deserved it.
Joined Apr 2009
1,428 Posts | 0+
Northeast Wisconsin
I would advise not to AI cervical since the concentrations of the straws are only 5-6 million instead of 50-60 million, especially since male sperm are supposed to be short lived compared to female. Post thaw motility is not great either. Hope this helps.
We have over a hundred female straws that we will probably never use and will end up getting rid of to avoid paying storage on them.
We have over a hundred female straws that we will probably never use and will end up getting rid of to avoid paying storage on them.
Thanks for the advice Ross. Just like everything else in life. Where there is an upside, you always get a down-side. I'm just going to have to find an honest breeder that will give me stats on a buck with the characteristics I like with the buck to doe ratio I need.
Joined Apr 2009
1,428 Posts | 0+
Northeast Wisconsin
OK - here is what we did. We used the sexed semen on 28 does. We did it vaginally in the chute like we do all of our AI. We used one straw per doe. We had only 3 conceive and got 4 fawns - 3 of which were bucks. We had one set of twins and two single births.
Will we do anything differently - yes. Obviously this didn't work out. We wanted to try it this way even though we knew it was a risk because this is how we traditionally do our AI. We probably will not do lap AI but we may try using two straws per doe. The other option is next time we will want the straws packed with a higher count, even if that means getting fewer straws. Like Ross said, you don't know how many you are going to get and the rate is a flat fee - at least now. So you have to decide if it is worth the gamble because if you had them packed with a double count of course that would mean half as many straws for that price. The wild card is how many straws - you could get 10 or 100.
Will we do anything differently - yes. Obviously this didn't work out. We wanted to try it this way even though we knew it was a risk because this is how we traditionally do our AI. We probably will not do lap AI but we may try using two straws per doe. The other option is next time we will want the straws packed with a higher count, even if that means getting fewer straws. Like Ross said, you don't know how many you are going to get and the rate is a flat fee - at least now. So you have to decide if it is worth the gamble because if you had them packed with a double count of course that would mean half as many straws for that price. The wild card is how many straws - you could get 10 or 100.
Wild Rivers Whitetails said:
Gary and Jane ,
Thank you for sharing your results and how open you have always been in helping others.
Scott
