Joined Apr 2009
1,428 Posts | 0+
Northeast Wisconsin
The most economical is to breed your own deer and not AI. A lot of time and money tied up in AI and not always the best results.
Wild rivers I am listening to your advise and I am hoping your right because that is what ive been doing the last 4 years! Here is my 2 breeders this year. I sold 20 3 yr old shooters this year and the smallest was 202 and the biggest was 355! All were from natural breed stock
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Joined Apr 2014
1,245 Posts | 0+
Greensburg, IN
Simonson1054371445432291
Wild rivers I am listening to your advise and I am hoping your right because that is what ive been doing the last 4 years! Here is my 2 breeders this year. I sold 20 3 yr old shooters this year and the smallest was 202 and the biggest was 355! All were from natural breed stock
You have solid does.
Wild rivers I am listening to your advise and I am hoping your right because that is what ive been doing the last 4 years! Here is my 2 breeders this year. I sold 20 3 yr old shooters this year and the smallest was 202 and the biggest was 355! All were from natural breed stock
You have solid does.
Thanks Mr Bell! Too bad they didnt have big names in them that way I could sell Does and Does Fawns like the big boys seem to do! Oh Well that the deer business for you! Thanks again
Joined Sep 2009
249 Posts | 0+
Utica, PA Venango Co.
Jim,
Since you already have an established doe herd that produces so well, I would think that you may be a prime candidate for sexed semen. If you could breed fewer doe (lower feed cost, space, etc.)to get the same amount of buck fawns, and reduce the number of doe fawns to a minimum, that would be the goal that I would try to achieve. If you already have an outlet for your stocker bucks, as you do, and your doe fawns are worth a minimum, this may merit some serious consideration. You breed enough deer that I would think you could get a nice quantity discount on sexed semen. Just something to think about, and don't beat me up too bad with the responses, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers either.
Since you already have an established doe herd that produces so well, I would think that you may be a prime candidate for sexed semen. If you could breed fewer doe (lower feed cost, space, etc.)to get the same amount of buck fawns, and reduce the number of doe fawns to a minimum, that would be the goal that I would try to achieve. If you already have an outlet for your stocker bucks, as you do, and your doe fawns are worth a minimum, this may merit some serious consideration. You breed enough deer that I would think you could get a nice quantity discount on sexed semen. Just something to think about, and don't beat me up too bad with the responses, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers either.
Joined Apr 2009
1,428 Posts | 0+
Northeast Wisconsin
Well it is a matter of economics. What is the cost of the semen? What is the cost of,probably Lap AI? What will you produce? How much time do you have wrapped up in it plus drugs for putting down the does for AI and any loses from running them through the chute to insert ciders etc. a lot to consider.
I just had a buddy call me and we were talking deer like always, he helped another deer farmer A I this last week and the A I tech told them that they were at a farm I dont know where but they lap A I ed 70 plus deer and he thought they told him it was ALL SEXED MALE SEMEN! WTH is going to happen down the road! I was a little worried before now I know WE SHOULD ALL BE WORRIED! Just my couple of cents worth! SIMONSON
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
Simonson1056281447447814
I just had a buddy call me and we were talking deer like always, he helped another deer farmer A I this last week and the A I tech told them that they were at a farm I dont know where but they lap A I ed 70 plus deer and he thought they told him it was ALL SEXED MALE SEMEN! WTH is going to happen down the road! I was a little worried before now I know WE SHOULD ALL BE WORRIED! Just my couple of cents worth! SIMONSON
Yup between untested farms loading states with cheap bucks and sexed semen only the top will will get ahead. The rest will continue to break even. That is if you can find a ranch that needs bucks,
I just had a buddy call me and we were talking deer like always, he helped another deer farmer A I this last week and the A I tech told them that they were at a farm I dont know where but they lap A I ed 70 plus deer and he thought they told him it was ALL SEXED MALE SEMEN! WTH is going to happen down the road! I was a little worried before now I know WE SHOULD ALL BE WORRIED! Just my couple of cents worth! SIMONSON
Yup between untested farms loading states with cheap bucks and sexed semen only the top will will get ahead. The rest will continue to break even. That is if you can find a ranch that needs bucks,
Joined Jun 2015
75 Posts | 0+
Williamsport, PA
I am a fan of using sexed semen to control the gender outcome of birth. It is one of just many tools the we have to influence different facets of our programs. If a person wants to breed to all sexed semen, so be it. If they natural cover everything that is their right to do so. Each has to evaluate their own farm and decide what is best for them and the future of the market they have built.
Josh you don't think that if everyone uses sexed male semen that will not cause a surplus of bucks and drive buck prices down? I get why everyone wants to use it I'm just concerned is all! JIM
Hell maybe I will need to use it just to break even in a few years! The breeder market shows what happens when we have a surplus and so will the shooter buck price! JUST MY FEW CENTS Not wanting to ruffle anyones feathers everyone can do whatever they want
Hell maybe I will need to use it just to break even in a few years! The breeder market shows what happens when we have a surplus and so will the shooter buck price! JUST MY FEW CENTS Not wanting to ruffle anyones feathers everyone can do whatever they want
Joined Apr 2014
1,245 Posts | 0+
Greensburg, IN
Consider this real world scenario:
1. LAP AI 10 does at $300 each using Sexed semen @ $500 per straw
2.Realistically only about 6 out of 10 does on average will settle to the AI.
3.Every other year you may lose 1 out 10 of the does to aspiration.
4.Does often don't breed to a backup after missing on LAP
5. Most does AI with sexed have single births.
6. Lost time handling each doe 3 times
Pasture breeding:
1.100% conception on all 10 does
2. Mostly twins or triplets= more total bucks born out of 10 does.
3. Does do not have to be handled three times.
4. Our industry's state associations need to find a viable outlet for culled doe fawns.
Bottom line: It is more economical to use a good brood buck and pasture breed. A terminal market or outlet is needed for culled doe fawns. AI only when it is necessary to introduce new blood.
1. LAP AI 10 does at $300 each using Sexed semen @ $500 per straw
2.Realistically only about 6 out of 10 does on average will settle to the AI.
3.Every other year you may lose 1 out 10 of the does to aspiration.
4.Does often don't breed to a backup after missing on LAP
5. Most does AI with sexed have single births.
6. Lost time handling each doe 3 times
Pasture breeding:
1.100% conception on all 10 does
2. Mostly twins or triplets= more total bucks born out of 10 does.
3. Does do not have to be handled three times.
4. Our industry's state associations need to find a viable outlet for culled doe fawns.
Bottom line: It is more economical to use a good brood buck and pasture breed. A terminal market or outlet is needed for culled doe fawns. AI only when it is necessary to introduce new blood.
Joined May 2011
296 Posts | 0+
Linesville, PA
The more I think about it, the more I agree with Bell. Like Josh said, it's an individual choice each farm has to make based on it's business plan. However, I don't know how much farther ahead one would be using sexed semen verses live breeding. I AI'D with Texas Tea and Payday to diversify my genetics but I plan to live breed for the next couple years. Mostly I've run the numbers in my head but I figure if you can't buy the semen for $300 or less, you may not make out in the end. The lower conception and single born fawns are my two top issues.
My top issue with live breeding is the outlet for doe fawns. I still have two in the pen that have to go soon. If I could hire an assassin, my troubles could be in the past.
My top issue with live breeding is the outlet for doe fawns. I still have two in the pen that have to go soon. If I could hire an assassin, my troubles could be in the past.
Joined Apr 2009
1,136 Posts | 0+
Bedford, PA
IndependenceRanch1056291447457189
Just one of many reasons I am getting out Jim. Good luck to you.
I think everyone respects your own personal decision to leave the industry. Doesn't mean you have to justify that decision by continually talking down about an industry that many of us still love. You may not be able to take that comment without wanting to fire back at me. Please refrain. I have nothing against you personally. I'm just tired of hearing form someone that has "left" the industry that keeps bashing something that we are all still a part of. It's kinda like leaving a company where a whole bunch of your friends still work and then calling them and saying... "holy crap, I'm so happy I don't work there anymore!". Does that make sense buddy?
Just one of many reasons I am getting out Jim. Good luck to you.
I think everyone respects your own personal decision to leave the industry. Doesn't mean you have to justify that decision by continually talking down about an industry that many of us still love. You may not be able to take that comment without wanting to fire back at me. Please refrain. I have nothing against you personally. I'm just tired of hearing form someone that has "left" the industry that keeps bashing something that we are all still a part of. It's kinda like leaving a company where a whole bunch of your friends still work and then calling them and saying... "holy crap, I'm so happy I don't work there anymore!". Does that make sense buddy?
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
WillPenn Whitetails1056401447555945
I think everyone respects your own personal decision to leave the industry. Doesn't mean you have to justify that decision by continually talking down about an industry that many of us still love. You may not be able to take that comment without wanting to fire back at me. Please refrain. I have nothing against you personally. I'm just tired of hearing form someone that has "left" the industry that keeps bashing something that we are all still a part of. It's kinda like leaving a company where a whole bunch of your friends still work and then calling them and saying... "holy crap, I'm so happy I don't work there anymore!". Does that make sense buddy?
All I did was join Jim in his concern about the flood of bucks in the market place and that is bashing?
Also if giving facts and speaking reality so new people come in with their eyes open is bashing then so be it. Better to be honest instead of painting a picture of roses and puppies and then people spend their hard earned money to find out they were lied to. I have over 20 years in the industry. I rode the wagon up the hill as the industry grew, and I have rode it as far as I feel I can. I have always had a great deal of passion about the industry. I shared my info with everyone to help them and not because it looked good for business. I am sorry you don't like me being straight forward with my views. But I have always spoke my mind and did it sincerely.
Do I think sexed semen shouldn't be allowed? No. Do I think it is bad for the industry? Yes. Anyone can see that the market is flooded and unbalanced. Your obviously just ticked off that I changed my mind about that straw of semen. Yes I changed my mind and decided not to buy it. First time I ever went back on my word. I felt horrible about it too. In fact so bad that I did tell you I would still buy it and just resell it since I am getting out. But you said no. I assume those straws sold like hot cakes being limited and you were able to just go down the list of names to the next person to sell it.
I think everyone respects your own personal decision to leave the industry. Doesn't mean you have to justify that decision by continually talking down about an industry that many of us still love. You may not be able to take that comment without wanting to fire back at me. Please refrain. I have nothing against you personally. I'm just tired of hearing form someone that has "left" the industry that keeps bashing something that we are all still a part of. It's kinda like leaving a company where a whole bunch of your friends still work and then calling them and saying... "holy crap, I'm so happy I don't work there anymore!". Does that make sense buddy?
All I did was join Jim in his concern about the flood of bucks in the market place and that is bashing?
Also if giving facts and speaking reality so new people come in with their eyes open is bashing then so be it. Better to be honest instead of painting a picture of roses and puppies and then people spend their hard earned money to find out they were lied to. I have over 20 years in the industry. I rode the wagon up the hill as the industry grew, and I have rode it as far as I feel I can. I have always had a great deal of passion about the industry. I shared my info with everyone to help them and not because it looked good for business. I am sorry you don't like me being straight forward with my views. But I have always spoke my mind and did it sincerely.
Do I think sexed semen shouldn't be allowed? No. Do I think it is bad for the industry? Yes. Anyone can see that the market is flooded and unbalanced. Your obviously just ticked off that I changed my mind about that straw of semen. Yes I changed my mind and decided not to buy it. First time I ever went back on my word. I felt horrible about it too. In fact so bad that I did tell you I would still buy it and just resell it since I am getting out. But you said no. I assume those straws sold like hot cakes being limited and you were able to just go down the list of names to the next person to sell it.
Joined Sep 2010
572 Posts | 0+
Indiana
If a guy can't raise a shooter at 2 and get $1800 to $2500 ya better do some real world thinking on your program. Some parts of the country will be different for different circumstances. This is not a get rich quick business like every new farmer thinks. Also my opinion and my opinion only is guys put way to much money in vaccines and other meds every year. So end result you sell a buck at 2 you will make SOME money. And for AIing..... Everybody is after the next great buck..... It never happens, so why not go after does to build you a solid program to where you can sell your bucks at 2.
Joined Jan 2011
508 Posts | 0+
Lentner, MO
Probably putting myself in harms way by commenting here. I believe sexed semen will be extremely beneficial for a few and will likely make it impossible for many others to stay in business. If you don't have a 100% reliable buyer for your hunt bucks going forward I believe your time is limited. Sexed semen = more bucks available. Basically doubling the supply without considerable increased demand means cheaper prices and your bucks will be harder to sell. When you do sell them you'll take whatever the hunting ranches want to pay. You will be 100% at their mercy which is really nothing new I guess. I know some of the hunting ranches are breeding huge numbers of does to male sexed to ensure their supply of bucks is reliable regardless of regulatory issues. Whatever business you are in if you have to beg someone to buy your product you are in serious trouble.
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
BMAYES1056501447640860
Probably putting myself in harms way by commenting here. I believe sexed semen will be extremely beneficial for a few and will likely make it impossible for many others to stay in business. If you don't have a 100% reliable buyer for your hunt bucks going forward I believe your time is limited. Sexed semen = more bucks available. Basically doubling the supply without considerable increased demand means cheaper prices and your bucks will be harder to sell. When you do sell them you'll take whatever the hunting ranches want to pay. You will be 100% at their mercy which is really nothing new I guess. I know some of the hunting ranches are breeding huge numbers of does to male sexed to ensure their supply of bucks is reliable regardless of regulatory issues. Whatever business you are in if you have to beg someone to buy your product you are in serious trouble.
Your just bashing the industry now. LOL!
Probably putting myself in harms way by commenting here. I believe sexed semen will be extremely beneficial for a few and will likely make it impossible for many others to stay in business. If you don't have a 100% reliable buyer for your hunt bucks going forward I believe your time is limited. Sexed semen = more bucks available. Basically doubling the supply without considerable increased demand means cheaper prices and your bucks will be harder to sell. When you do sell them you'll take whatever the hunting ranches want to pay. You will be 100% at their mercy which is really nothing new I guess. I know some of the hunting ranches are breeding huge numbers of does to male sexed to ensure their supply of bucks is reliable regardless of regulatory issues. Whatever business you are in if you have to beg someone to buy your product you are in serious trouble.
Your just bashing the industry now. LOL!
