Daryl, you bring up some good points. But the major difference between deer farming, and the beef and egg market is... People need to eat! People don't have to deer hunt. I personally don't think that supply and demand will have much effect on the prices of bucks for many many years. No offense to the preserves out there... You guys need to do what is necessary to stay in business, but the fact is... The hunt prices have gotten so cheap/competitive, that hunters are so acclimated to the current prices. It will take a small miracle to get the hunt rates going north. In my opinion, everyone better get used to the current prices, because nothing is going to happen anytime soon! Not trying to cast doom and gloom... Just the facts. As the old saying goes... Sh-- or get off the pot. Sorry, but just my opinion.
Just a thought.... Hunt prices go down, more people can afford to hunt behind a fence, more bucks the preserves need from the grower= more stable market.
Prices Might be lower than the over inflated market of the past but in the current state of affairs the growers need to be thinking real hard about the cost of business and why they choose to spend the dollars that they do.... And make necessary changes to diet, breeding, meds, and numbers. Many people will come and go from this industry as with every industry, but the ones that are willing to change with it and stay positive have a greater potential to succeed in it
Prices Might be lower than the over inflated market of the past but in the current state of affairs the growers need to be thinking real hard about the cost of business and why they choose to spend the dollars that they do.... And make necessary changes to diet, breeding, meds, and numbers. Many people will come and go from this industry as with every industry, but the ones that are willing to change with it and stay positive have a greater potential to succeed in it
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
Sorry, but I disagree that lower prices at preserves bring in more hunters. A few sure, however the majority of those who don't go to preserves don't because they either A. Disagree with preserves B. Can't see paying to hunt when they can do it much cheaper outside the fence.
Lower prices for the most part mean guys can shoot bigger bucks for the same cost so they go that direction.
Lower prices for the most part mean guys can shoot bigger bucks for the same cost so they go that direction.
Joined Feb 2011
912 Posts | 0+
Blair County, PA
I AGREE WITH ROGER COMPLETELY ON THAT ONE - I DON'T FEEL PRICE IS THE STIGMA TO BRINGING HUNTERS TO HUNT HIGH FENCE - I THINK PEOPLE ARE TOO SET IN THEIR WAYS TO TRY IT
The hunt behind the fence for a 130-150 class buck is very near the price of an outfitted hunt. Let's call that price $2000. Even if we are doing that with a two year old buck or we buy that buck from a farm for $1000 we are not making a penny and neither is the deer farm we bought it from. The little money made on the preserve hunt is made on 180-210 class bucks and they almost have to be typicals. You need to get a high percentage of your bucks to that level at age 2. Even then they better weigh over 200 lbs and look Canadien with dark antlers and wide spreads with long tines and heavy mass. I think that may be why we see over 90 % return of our clients.
If you have to do that with sexed semen to make money on your farm have at it. We need your deer at the most reasonable price you can provide. Those that talk like we are all doing this as a hobby and bette like what you do for nothing or get out are a little off. Our family makes a living doing this and we plan to continue to grow our business. The looming fear is that an institution of government get stupid and change the rules in a bad way.
If you have to do that with sexed semen to make money on your farm have at it. We need your deer at the most reasonable price you can provide. Those that talk like we are all doing this as a hobby and bette like what you do for nothing or get out are a little off. Our family makes a living doing this and we plan to continue to grow our business. The looming fear is that an institution of government get stupid and change the rules in a bad way.
I believe that we as producers need to be thinking about how to produce the best product for the least amount of money and and input. AI cost is very high compared to live breeding, feed, meds, and pasture seed is very high as long as the label has "deer" in the heading.
At some point if not already most people will be raising 190-220" two year olds with the same money that they were raising 130-150" 2 yr olds. My little 120" deer eats the same amount of food and takes the same amount of space and meds as my 320" deer.
I believe that hunters going to preserves are looking for what they can't find in the wild... Due to many variables.... This is just my opinion as a grower and as much as I would rather get 6-10k for the rest of my life off of a nice 200"-275" deer I believe that in the future 180" deer will be selling on preserves for the current price of a 150" deer. And a 200" deer for that of a 170-180" deer. I hope and pray that I'm wrong, but I'll tell you now I'm looking at anyway possible to cut costs so that I can sell more deer to preserves at a reasonable price so that the preserves can sell more hunts and both of us make money
At some point if not already most people will be raising 190-220" two year olds with the same money that they were raising 130-150" 2 yr olds. My little 120" deer eats the same amount of food and takes the same amount of space and meds as my 320" deer.
I believe that hunters going to preserves are looking for what they can't find in the wild... Due to many variables.... This is just my opinion as a grower and as much as I would rather get 6-10k for the rest of my life off of a nice 200"-275" deer I believe that in the future 180" deer will be selling on preserves for the current price of a 150" deer. And a 200" deer for that of a 170-180" deer. I hope and pray that I'm wrong, but I'll tell you now I'm looking at anyway possible to cut costs so that I can sell more deer to preserves at a reasonable price so that the preserves can sell more hunts and both of us make money
I'm new to the deer business, but not new to business or agriculture. In my opinion, Jbeltmann is thinking in the right direction. Build the best performing product possible, with the least amount of input cost. Take out as many variables as a guy can, which is easier said than done in any agricultural trade. Reduce handling and labor. Drive up fixed cost utilization.
One variable does exist, that would benefit all growers and preserves. We cannot be satisfied with stagnant demand in the market. If we are planning to produce more bucks, however that may be, and concerned with prices falling due to oversupply, we need to drive up demand.
New hunters must try out a deer hunt in a preserve every year. They must have a good experience or they would not come back. How do we get more hunters to give it a try and repeat? How do we get the repeat hunters to bring theirs friends and family when they come back? How do we improve the experience, whether that be with an improved look on the deer or the hunting experience itself? As demand increases, especially repeat demand, prices should steadily climb.
More hunters = More bucks = More $
One variable does exist, that would benefit all growers and preserves. We cannot be satisfied with stagnant demand in the market. If we are planning to produce more bucks, however that may be, and concerned with prices falling due to oversupply, we need to drive up demand.
New hunters must try out a deer hunt in a preserve every year. They must have a good experience or they would not come back. How do we get more hunters to give it a try and repeat? How do we get the repeat hunters to bring theirs friends and family when they come back? How do we improve the experience, whether that be with an improved look on the deer or the hunting experience itself? As demand increases, especially repeat demand, prices should steadily climb.
More hunters = More bucks = More $
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
For the same reason that most people put siding on their house instead of brick or stone. Price. a 130-180" deer is cheaper than than a 200"+ If a hunter has the option to shoot a 130" or a 200" deer for the same price I'm pretty confident he's going to go for the bigger deer.
at the rate people are producing 200"+ deer I wouldn't be surprised if the 130-170" deer became the new management deer at the preserves.
at the rate people are producing 200"+ deer I wouldn't be surprised if the 130-170" deer became the new management deer at the preserves.
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
Jbseltmann1057231447992101
For the same reason that most people put siding on their house instead of brick or stone. Price. a 130-180" deer is cheaper than than a 200"+ If a hunter has the option to shoot a 130" or a 200" deer for the same price I'm pretty confident he's going to go for the bigger deer.
at the rate people are producing 200"+ deer I wouldn't be surprised if the 130-170" deer became the new management deer at the preserves.
And thats what will destroy the industry in the long run. When will it end. 150 the new 130..170 the new 150 and it goes on. To much of a good thing is bad at times. If ranches have a high demand for 130 to 180 they should ALL set the price of those hunts, If all ranches kept the sale price scale and charged a price across the board without under cutting the next guy prices would stay strong across the board, I believe ranches cutting each others throats is what is driving down prices,
I can tell ya here in Ny it is. Call one place and tell them what Joe Blow across the state is charging and they will under cut them to get your business.
For the same reason that most people put siding on their house instead of brick or stone. Price. a 130-180" deer is cheaper than than a 200"+ If a hunter has the option to shoot a 130" or a 200" deer for the same price I'm pretty confident he's going to go for the bigger deer.
at the rate people are producing 200"+ deer I wouldn't be surprised if the 130-170" deer became the new management deer at the preserves.
And thats what will destroy the industry in the long run. When will it end. 150 the new 130..170 the new 150 and it goes on. To much of a good thing is bad at times. If ranches have a high demand for 130 to 180 they should ALL set the price of those hunts, If all ranches kept the sale price scale and charged a price across the board without under cutting the next guy prices would stay strong across the board, I believe ranches cutting each others throats is what is driving down prices,
I can tell ya here in Ny it is. Call one place and tell them what Joe Blow across the state is charging and they will under cut them to get your business.
And fortunately that is the free market system that we have in America. Where some make it and some don't. The other way is price fixing and very similar to a communistic system. I'm proud to say that I'll stay on the side of letting the market do what it does, more freedoms this way.
I fully believe in life and in business to always ask....what do I need to change about what I'm doing to become better, not what can everyone else change to make my life better
I fully believe in life and in business to always ask....what do I need to change about what I'm doing to become better, not what can everyone else change to make my life better
Our prices at the hunt level have held for the last 4 years. No price cutting , no coupons , no discounts. We are still able to buy from several Minnesota farmers each year and get a handshake and a smile when we are done loading. We often end up having to. Buy deer we don't want to make a deal work. One thing that is going to hurt over time is the deer farmer that wants to be a preserve. Or is so desperate to sell a buck that he Throws an ad on Craigslist or ebay and let's a guy come in , poke his barrel through the fence of a 3 acre pen and shoot the deer of his dreams. It's bad enough that the deer farmer has to do this but even worse for the industry that our deer farmers would allow this. We have several doing this hear in Minnesota. We refuse to buy deer from farms that condone this.
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
You must have different laws in your state. Because it is 80 acres MINIMUM to harvest a deer in WI if you are not the owner or manager. A customer could not harvest a deer at a licensed preserve less than 80 acres.
Joined Feb 2013
780 Posts | 1+
Markleville IN
Roger,
That's where it gets tricky when animals are classified as livestock. It's not illegal to shoot your livestock in you pen for slaughter purposes in Indiana. Ooh boy I feel a whole new conversation coming on. Lol
That's where it gets tricky when animals are classified as livestock. It's not illegal to shoot your livestock in you pen for slaughter purposes in Indiana. Ooh boy I feel a whole new conversation coming on. Lol
I see the ads on craigslist but I wonder if they are ever selling hunts or are they just trying to sell deer Meaning to preserves or farmers not shooting them on the premise? JIM SIMONSON
Joined Apr 2009
1,428 Posts | 0+
Northeast Wisconsin
An owner can shoot his own livestock but he cannot allow someone else to do it for a price.
Prices have dropped for hunts across the board as we grow bigger deer. I can remember when a 200" deer was $15000. But as they became more common the price dropped. It is just the way the market is. The guys shooting the smaller ones were priced out years ago but can afford to spend $5000 for a nice hunt. I think the market will continue to grow as more people become frustrated with hunting public land, or the high cost and amount of work that goes into a lease. We have several regulars that have given up their leases and just hunt with us. A lot easier and better deer!!
Prices have dropped for hunts across the board as we grow bigger deer. I can remember when a 200" deer was $15000. But as they became more common the price dropped. It is just the way the market is. The guys shooting the smaller ones were priced out years ago but can afford to spend $5000 for a nice hunt. I think the market will continue to grow as more people become frustrated with hunting public land, or the high cost and amount of work that goes into a lease. We have several regulars that have given up their leases and just hunt with us. A lot easier and better deer!!
