I think wild rivers is saying paying more for a product to produce a product that is lower in value and is in less demand just doesnt add up in the end. I guess we can all enjoy the PARTY while it lasts though.
2011 Top 30
- Thread starter Whitetail Sanctuary
- Start date
I personally do not know the buyers of Highroller's lot but, I did hear that was not their first purchase of such an offering. The last time they took the offer it paid them a VERY VERY NICE REWARD. $500,000.00 for a chioce buck is a lot of money however with semen sales and a tight Texas market I'm sure they will come out with plenty of $$$ to fell good about it. Great sale, good friends and living a dream... PRICELESS....
Joined Apr 2009
947 Posts | 0+
Annville, Pennsylvania
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
I already stated why I felt this sale was so good. I am not going to get into the drama crap.
The facilities were very nice. Kevin and his team did a great job from start to finish. The genetics offered were outstanding. Sellers are all providing DNA for their lots to give buyers confidence in their purchases. Farms are offering their very best and not just dumping animals to make a quick dollar and rid their farms of deer they don't want. After all these years the number of friendships we have made by attending these shows is awesome, and it was simply a great time. If someone needs more explanation than that then I can't help you.
The facilities were very nice. Kevin and his team did a great job from start to finish. The genetics offered were outstanding. Sellers are all providing DNA for their lots to give buyers confidence in their purchases. Farms are offering their very best and not just dumping animals to make a quick dollar and rid their farms of deer they don't want. After all these years the number of friendships we have made by attending these shows is awesome, and it was simply a great time. If someone needs more explanation than that then I can't help you.
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
alpha and omega whitetail said:
Henry, You didn't see Michael lurking around like a fuzzy little troll?
Joined May 2009
2,369 Posts | 0+
Chillicothe, Missouri
Roger,That statement that "Farms are offering thier very best and not just dumping animals to make a quick dollar and rid thier farms of animals they don't want" That's not a very nice statement!
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
Whitetail Sanctuary said:Roger,That statement that "Farms are offering thier very best and not just dumping animals to make a quick dollar and rid thier farms of animals they don't want" That's not a very nice statement!
Wayne you have me confused. I am not sure why your misreading what I am saying. All I meant was consignors are offering really good deer at these sales these days. I think the level of quality is higher than ever before. And I think many are consigning deer for more reasons than just to make money. I was proud of the deer we offered and I know there were a lot of others who were also very proud of the lots they were offering to the bidders. Consigning deer is more than just about making money. It is about showcasing your herd, farm, and breeding program. And I felt everyone did a really good job of that.
I really don't see how there is a misunderstanding from what I said. I am complimenting everyone in the industry.
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
Well isnt that why they call it the top 30???? I my opinion the top 30 is not really a good sign of where this deer thing really is!! I think things are on the upswing and thats a good thing for us all but the average deer farmer is never included in the top 30...I am sure alot have no intrest in being there.Its great for the guys that are there and i believe some are left out that have just as good and some imo better than some animals that were in the sale but thats just one guys opinon..I think the sale mark has coming up is more for the average deer farmer and there are some great deer in that sale.That will better show how the everyday deer farmer is doing. Wayne i know exactly what you meant about your statement!!! LOL... Thats not a tough one!!!!
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
I think some people have no clue about the real history of the industry and that maybe has some affect of how they think during topics like this. I myself have only been in deer since 1995, but I was lucky enough to be shown things by the true old timers so I have insight to some of the history of the industry.
When we started I bought a yearling buck that we used as our breeder. We sold him at age 4 with a score of just under 160". That was in it's time a nice buck. Today many farms grow 160" yearlings. And no I am not talking about the "big guys" with their monster yearlings. I am talking the "average guy". The level of antler development in the industry as a whole has increased so far beyond where it was years ago.
When we started folks still thought you just bred any ol' doe to a big buck and you had great fawns coming out. Today folks know this isn't the case and we all understand that a brown doe is a brown doe. But that a brown doe doesn't mean she has good breeding potential. The newer growers need to think about that for a moment. The new growers are like the kids of today who grow up thinking that everyone has a cell phone and that cell phones have always been the size of a credit card. They don't understand that it wasn't that many years ago that cell phones were more of a luxury and that they used to be big old bag phones the size of a football.
When I talk about how far I see the industry as having come I am talking about how breeding philosophies have changed, and how the quality of deer all across the country has increased. This was sooooo evident by simply walking around the booths at the show and seeing the BIG BIG deer soooooo many folks are raising. And this "big guy" vs "small guy" thing is a crock. EVERYONE is raising big deer. But I don't walk around looking at the big deer and see it for just that. I walk around looking at the big deer and the facilities and recall the first couple of times I went to one of Kevin's sales. A small building with a tiny little kitchen of sorts in the corner. The bleachers we all sat in were tiny and held maybe a 150 people I would guess. The "booths" if you want to call them that, were tables lined up along one wall with a couple of pictures laying on the table or taped to the wall. Head mounts of HUGE bucks simply weren't there. A few guys would carry around a set of antlers and they would draw a crowd of folks all wanting to see them.
The evolution of the whitetail industry has gone so far it is mind boggling to think about it. I am so lucky to be able to have been a part of it. It is a shame more of you don't realize how lucky you are to be in this industry.
That is some of what I am saying and meaning in my earlier posts. I am also saying that just being there at the show was enjoyable and fun. Talking with friends and meeting new friends. Showing my friends around to others and introducing them. Having dinner in the evenings with folks I had not met before and having a good time laughing about whatever came up. (I still have that picture on my phone of the guy in the corner of the restaurant with the gray colored mohawk That was FUNNY!)
On another thread it was talked about how "hot" the farm manager is at RW Trophy Ranch in TX. Do you know she was at the sale? And she is very pretty and a really really nice person. Laurie and I had the pleasure of having dinner with her and some others one evening. If more of you would attend these shows instead of staying home and griping about them you could see and experience some of the things we all talk about. You would have a better understanding of where we are coming from when we make comments on here. It is easy to be the quarterback from the comfort of your living room chair, but I bet if you stepped onto the field it was seem a bit more daunting and give you a whole different perspective.
It is no new thing. I have said and urged folks to attend these shows for a long time now. I don't tell folks to attend because I get a cut of the admission price at the door. (Oh my! Remember when there was an admission price?) I tell folks to attend because I truly feel it is the best way to get the most from being in this industry.
Admission prices used to be charged back in the day. This was to limit the PETA types from coming in to take pictures to use against the industry. Back in the day deer were actually at the sales the day they were auctioned off. Oh the stories that could be told....But we won't go there
Typing this all out makes me wonder if a someone wants to write a story for Deer Tracking or the Deer Gazzett. The history of the industry would make a great story and might well help some get some perspective on things.
For anyone to say that Kevin's sale or any other sale is not for the average guy is simply absurd. There is so much to learn, and so much to see, and so much fun to be had at Kevin's sales, Eric and Jerry's sales, Mark's sales, the Chupps sales and so on. Where else can folks from all over the country and from all walks of life get together and have a Rook card game in the hotel lobby?
These sales/shows are about SOOOOO MUCH more than selling and buying deer.
I said it before and I will say it again. This was Kevin's best show yet. Good friends, good times, and great deer!
I only wish I could attend Mark's sale this month but work prevents it. I only hope I can attend Eric and Jerry's sale next month.
I simply enjoy seeing everyone so much!
When we started I bought a yearling buck that we used as our breeder. We sold him at age 4 with a score of just under 160". That was in it's time a nice buck. Today many farms grow 160" yearlings. And no I am not talking about the "big guys" with their monster yearlings. I am talking the "average guy". The level of antler development in the industry as a whole has increased so far beyond where it was years ago.
When we started folks still thought you just bred any ol' doe to a big buck and you had great fawns coming out. Today folks know this isn't the case and we all understand that a brown doe is a brown doe. But that a brown doe doesn't mean she has good breeding potential. The newer growers need to think about that for a moment. The new growers are like the kids of today who grow up thinking that everyone has a cell phone and that cell phones have always been the size of a credit card. They don't understand that it wasn't that many years ago that cell phones were more of a luxury and that they used to be big old bag phones the size of a football.
When I talk about how far I see the industry as having come I am talking about how breeding philosophies have changed, and how the quality of deer all across the country has increased. This was sooooo evident by simply walking around the booths at the show and seeing the BIG BIG deer soooooo many folks are raising. And this "big guy" vs "small guy" thing is a crock. EVERYONE is raising big deer. But I don't walk around looking at the big deer and see it for just that. I walk around looking at the big deer and the facilities and recall the first couple of times I went to one of Kevin's sales. A small building with a tiny little kitchen of sorts in the corner. The bleachers we all sat in were tiny and held maybe a 150 people I would guess. The "booths"
if you want to call them that, were tables lined up along one wall with a couple of pictures laying on the table or taped to the wall. Head mounts of HUGE bucks simply weren't there. A few guys would carry around a set of antlers and they would draw a crowd of folks all wanting to see them.The evolution of the whitetail industry has gone so far it is mind boggling to think about it. I am so lucky to be able to have been a part of it. It is a shame more of you don't realize how lucky you are to be in this industry.
That is some of what I am saying and meaning in my earlier posts. I am also saying that just being there at the show was enjoyable and fun. Talking with friends and meeting new friends. Showing my friends around to others and introducing them. Having dinner in the evenings with folks I had not met before and having a good time laughing about whatever came up. (I still have that picture on my phone of the guy in the corner of the restaurant with the gray colored mohawk That was FUNNY!)
On another thread it was talked about how "hot" the farm manager is at RW Trophy Ranch in TX. Do you know she was at the sale? And she is very pretty and a really really nice person. Laurie and I had the pleasure of having dinner with her and some others one evening. If more of you would attend these shows instead of staying home and griping about them you could see and experience some of the things we all talk about. You would have a better understanding of where we are coming from when we make comments on here. It is easy to be the quarterback from the comfort of your living room chair, but I bet if you stepped onto the field it was seem a bit more daunting and give you a whole different perspective.
It is no new thing. I have said and urged folks to attend these shows for a long time now. I don't tell folks to attend because I get a cut of the admission price at the door. (Oh my! Remember when there was an admission price?) I tell folks to attend because I truly feel it is the best way to get the most from being in this industry.
Admission prices used to be charged back in the day. This was to limit the PETA types from coming in to take pictures to use against the industry. Back in the day deer were actually at the sales the day they were auctioned off. Oh the stories that could be told....But we won't go there
Typing this all out makes me wonder if a someone wants to write a story for Deer Tracking or the Deer Gazzett. The history of the industry would make a great story and might well help some get some perspective on things.
For anyone to say that Kevin's sale or any other sale is not for the average guy is simply absurd. There is so much to learn, and so much to see, and so much fun to be had at Kevin's sales, Eric and Jerry's sales, Mark's sales, the Chupps sales and so on. Where else can folks from all over the country and from all walks of life get together and have a Rook card game in the hotel lobby?
These sales/shows are about SOOOOO MUCH more than selling and buying deer.
I said it before and I will say it again. This was Kevin's best show yet. Good friends, good times, and great deer!
I only wish I could attend Mark's sale this month but work prevents it. I only hope I can attend Eric and Jerry's sale next month.
I simply enjoy seeing everyone so much!
Sometimes I get the feeling after reading some of the posts on here if you are not either growing 300 inch deer or spending the money trying to raise a 300 inch deer you are lazy and a black eye on the deer industry.
Ill use myself as an example. I have a guy who will buy all the 180 inch bucks and down I can grow and he is still paying the same price as a few years ago he just doesnt want anything any bigger. I have another guy who will take bigger bucks but he wants them clean and not alot of extra. O he will take them with alot of extras but he isnt going to pay for the extra inches. So why should I go buy expensive deer to produce a bigger deer i have no market for. To me a $500 doe that will produce a 165 buck that I can get $2750 for is more profitable than a $5000 doe that "might" produce a 220 inch buck that I am getting offered $3000 for. Dont get me wrong I would love to have 200 inch bucks running around but for me spending more money to make the same amount just makes no sense when I already have a good outlet for my bucks.
Ill use myself as an example. I have a guy who will buy all the 180 inch bucks and down I can grow and he is still paying the same price as a few years ago he just doesnt want anything any bigger. I have another guy who will take bigger bucks but he wants them clean and not alot of extra. O he will take them with alot of extras but he isnt going to pay for the extra inches. So why should I go buy expensive deer to produce a bigger deer i have no market for. To me a $500 doe that will produce a 165 buck that I can get $2750 for is more profitable than a $5000 doe that "might" produce a 220 inch buck that I am getting offered $3000 for. Dont get me wrong I would love to have 200 inch bucks running around but for me spending more money to make the same amount just makes no sense when I already have a good outlet for my bucks.
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
little D, you are working inside of your own markets and that is smart business sense. Based on what you are saying there simply is no reason for you to have does or a breeder buck that is anything other than 180" and clean as a whistle. There is nothing lazy or having a black eye about conducting smart business, and I haven't read where ANYONE has said that it is lazy.
Every farm has to find what markets they want to operate in and what works best for them and then follow that path. Heck I have said that for years.
Every farm has to find what markets they want to operate in and what works best for them and then follow that path. Heck I have said that for years.
I just started farmimg in May of this past year. I spend alot of time reading and studying the post on here and I must say that Rogers post is very exciting for me. Raising deer for me has become a passion, not work at all.To be able to dream of one day raising that one "special buck" even though i"m just a small farmer excites me!
And little D great job!!! You know what your customers want and working to fufill their needs. My hat is off to you sir!!
And little D great job!!! You know what your customers want and working to fufill their needs. My hat is off to you sir!!
I will say I very much enjoyed myself for the 2 days I could attend. Unfortunately I could not stay for Friday but met alot of good fun folks. Im trying to schedule so i can attend the Midwest and hope to meet even more folks who I was not able to speak with. We did get a couple nice deer thou!
On a side I thought every was to have ones name attached to post??
Who is little d?
On a side I thought every was to have ones name attached to post??
Who is little d?
I will say I very much enjoyed myself for the 2 days I could attend. Unfortunately I could not stay for Friday but met alot of good fun folks. Im trying to schedule so i can attend the Midwest and hope to meet even more folks who I was not able to speak with. We did get a couple nice deer thou!
On a side note i thought everyone was to have ones name attached to post??
Who is little d?
Thanks to all
On a side note i thought everyone was to have ones name attached to post??
Who is little d?
Thanks to all
Joined May 2009
2,369 Posts | 0+
Chillicothe, Missouri
I had an awesome time as always at The Top 30 sale this year as always! It was the very first sale I ever attended and It is "THE GRAN DADDY" of slaes as far as most are concerned. Kevin and his staff did an excellent job as always! We enjoyed everyone who stopped buy our new booth to visit! Good deer,GREAT FRIENDS are always times to be THANKFUL FOR because it should never get old doing what we get to do! DEERFARMERS ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S Just a side note I found very interesting stayed @ the Collinsville SUPER 8 and had a nice clean room and for only $59.00 a night thought that was very reasonable.Came home and today got a hand written card thanking us for our stay! Just thought that was very nice in todays faceless world. Also booked my NADEFA rooms for March in Nashville and they had to charge the first days stay to our card as soon as we made the reservations! LOL Oh well
P.S Just a side note I found very interesting stayed @ the Collinsville SUPER 8 and had a nice clean room and for only $59.00 a night thought that was very reasonable.Came home and today got a hand written card thanking us for our stay!
Just thought that was very nice in todays faceless world. Also booked my NADEFA rooms for March in Nashville and they had to charge the first days stay to our card as soon as we made the reservations! LOL Oh well
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
I want to make one last post on this thread. I have communicated with Wayne and even though I don't know how anyone who knows me could think I would ever do so, I see why he didn't like my earlier comment.
He took my comment as though I was saying those who were consignors this year had deer that were better and not just deer being sold to make a quick dollar and that those who didn't get in the sale had poor deer.
I was in NO WAY saying this.
What I was saying was that the industry as a WHOLE has come so far compared to the early years. The years back when the sale books showed who the sire was of a doe fawn, but the ENTIRE pedigree for the doe fawns mother was N/A. Or the bred doe's pedigree was N/A for everything and all it showed was who the breeder buck was.
To look back at those early sale books it is funny to see how deer were sold back years ago. I guess I was tripping down memory lane and found it a bit nostalgic to do so.
That is why I even spoke about how the facilities and the "booths" guys had back then compared to now is so different.
Again, I was in NO WAY talking about any consignors of today.
So VERY SORRY to anyone who misunderstood my posting.
If I get a chance to scan in some pages from some of the old sale books to show the new growers how deer were sold years ago I think you will see more of what I am talking about and why I was saying the industry has come so far over the years.
He took my comment as though I was saying those who were consignors this year had deer that were better and not just deer being sold to make a quick dollar and that those who didn't get in the sale had poor deer.
I was in NO WAY saying this.
What I was saying was that the industry as a WHOLE has come so far compared to the early years. The years back when the sale books showed who the sire was of a doe fawn, but the ENTIRE pedigree for the doe fawns mother was N/A. Or the bred doe's pedigree was N/A for everything and all it showed was who the breeder buck was.
To look back at those early sale books it is funny to see how deer were sold back years ago. I guess I was tripping down memory lane and found it a bit nostalgic to do so.
That is why I even spoke about how the facilities and the "booths" guys had back then compared to now is so different.
Again, I was in NO WAY talking about any consignors of today.
So VERY SORRY to anyone who misunderstood my posting.
If I get a chance to scan in some pages from some of the old sale books to show the new growers how deer were sold years ago I think you will see more of what I am talking about and why I was saying the industry has come so far over the years.
Dang Wayne, I should have had you pay for mine too...lol We really liked the new location. My only thought would be to have the booths and the auction in the same room. Overall a GREAT TIME