The quote we used up here was : " We are the canary in the coal mine". What the MDC is telling everyone, is that the canary caused the methane build-up in the mine.
C'mon Missouri!!!
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Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
It is much easier to find it in a pen without question (easier monitoring)(QUOTE)
lol..Good statement here!!! Its not that its easy for us to test... Its that we HAVE to test ALL..Not pick and choose what area we would like to test from.
lol..Good statement here!!! Its not that its easy for us to test... Its that we HAVE to test ALL..Not pick and choose what area we would like to test from.
Joined May 2009
2,369 Posts | 0+
Chillicothe, Missouri
If Deer Farmers need to TEST 100%....................States should be REQUIRED to Test 100% ALL Harvested Deer and Road Kill....................Fair for ONE is Fair for ALL.............After All STATE and FEDERAL....................BOTH AGREE IT'S..........100%.....DEADLY!! LMAO
Letemgrow: I would like to thank you for coming to this forum with a respectful attitude and an open mind. I know TSS is a lurker here, but I am impressed that you came here not to be a jerk, but to form your own opinions.
On topic, I will throw this out there: PA has had many thousands of deer tested (both farmed deer and free-range), and just last year had the first positives. Is it just a coincidence that mere months after the first farmed deer tested positive we had 2 wild deer test positive? Maybe, maybe not. BUT, all the press about CWD in PA implies a connection between the two even though that is basically an impossibility. I even emailed an outdoor writer to inform him of his mistake, to which he replied that he was just reporting the Game Commission's releases. Make no mistake, at this time the whole CWD issue is FAR more political than it is biological. If someone is concerned about the potential for a human to contract CJD from a deer, I can understand and respect that; beyond that this whole thing is a political beachball, IMHO.
On topic, I will throw this out there: PA has had many thousands of deer tested (both farmed deer and free-range), and just last year had the first positives. Is it just a coincidence that mere months after the first farmed deer tested positive we had 2 wild deer test positive? Maybe, maybe not. BUT, all the press about CWD in PA implies a connection between the two even though that is basically an impossibility. I even emailed an outdoor writer to inform him of his mistake, to which he replied that he was just reporting the Game Commission's releases. Make no mistake, at this time the whole CWD issue is FAR more political than it is biological. If someone is concerned about the potential for a human to contract CJD from a deer, I can understand and respect that; beyond that this whole thing is a political beachball, IMHO.
Jeff, you are right....we are at the mercy of how they report things........I think it is laughable that they came out right after the first CWD report from a cerid farm in PA about Pa harvested deer testing positive...and of course it was right around where the PA positive deer farm was.......they can't even be smart about trying to make it look like the cervid industry is the cause........they were chomping at the bit for a Positive deer to show up in the cervid industry somewhere so they could pin it on US......if I were a betting man they had positives way before this incident occurred! Just my thoughts!
Whitetail Sanctuary said:
I'd like to see that added in to the tag prices and be part of people taking wild deer. Then things can be more certain about what is going on from a whole state scale. Have everyone pay $10 extra per tag and that should cover all deer harvested since about 30% are actually successful in taking a deer. Bring back the check stations and make hunters check all deer in then and let them pull the samples needed then.
If they do that for 3-5 years, that should tell the story...
I'd gladly pay the extra dough to test all my deer taken.
Joined Sep 2010
572 Posts | 0+
Indiana
letemgrow said:
Had a guy last fall that wanted to test the deer that I had shot, but he could not be honest to me about what he was testing for. He told me he wanted the brain stem and lymph nodes to test for TB. After he found out that I was a deer farmer and caught him lying to me he started talking some sense. The main reason they will not test all deer checked in is because the head has to be removed and they dont want the public seeing or knowing about that.
Clearview Whitetails said:
The MDC does have testing sites set up now. Not sure if it is statewide, or just for the containment zone. Problem is, the closest may be a long ways away. The closest one to me is about an hour drive.
Its a voluntary thing right now, but I'd vote to see it mandatory on any harvested deer...bow or gun.
http://mdc.mo.gov/your-property/wil...deer-diseases/chronic-wasting-disease/donate-
letemgrow said:
The problem is you are just testing healthy harvested deer. The wild sick deer that die are never found. Maybe only by the coyotes. I have read that deer don't really die from CWD. Their body gets run down and they die from something else, probably pneumonia. The biggest death loss for pneumonia is August - September. By the time deer hunting rolls around, the evidence is gone. So you can see, they may never find it, even if it is present. You can never test 100% of the wild herd. It isn't possible. We test 100% of our herds, because we find our dead deer.
G O Whitetails said:
The Heartland deer was not sick, or appeared sick that came back a positive right?
MDC pulls enough samples, they will find CWD in a healthy looking wild deer. 300,000 samples gotta be worth something a year....
What lab could handle 300,000 samples a year? That would be 150 samples / hour.
I don't know the condition of the deer at Heartland. Where the samples positive obex or Lymph node? What do they test down there?
I don't know the condition of the deer at Heartland. Where the samples positive obex or Lymph node? What do they test down there?
G O Whitetails said:
Not sure how that would work at this time. May take 5 years for them to set something like that up. Start raising tags 1-2$ per year and stockpile that money to get it done when the timing is right. I mean we as hunters want to see stuff done and that is part of the reason we have to buy permits. Testing 300,000 kills would surely get some price break tho I would imagine.
Its obviously a HUGE deal for MDC and hunters since they are having all these meetings in my home state so nothing says that more than taking money to get some real work done.
Dang it, I want to get to the bottom of this in regards to the wild herd and sampling every deer taken would get it done. Lots of mud slinging going on IMO at this time.
G O Whitetails said:
Not sure which they tested. Looks like they prefer the lymph node test.
http://mdc.mo.gov/sites/default/files/resources/2013/08/cwdsetrecstrt_8-23-13.pdf
letemgrow said:
In Iowa we saw animals that tested positive in the lymph node, and negative in the obex. I had a researcher tell me that unless it is positive in the obex it shouldn't be considered CWD. All the lymph node is showing, is that it carries the infectious agent that "may" turn into CWD. Since the lymph node is a "filter" to the body, if it is doing it's job, how many of them may not develop full blown CWD? I have not seen any research to this. I don't know if they can even prove this, without a live test. Since all these animals are dead to get to this point.
All I have heard is that every animal that has tested positive in the obex, tested positive in the lymph node. But since the obex is the last place to turn positive, they are "assuming" a lymph positive will turn into a positive. Again, hard to prove without a live test.
I guess what bothers me is, on page 47 of the "standards program", they state that "it is assumed that animals may shed the CWD prion into the environment before the onset of clinical disease". That tells me there is no science out there that tells me they know how prions are spread, or when, or if!!!
If they say prions can be spread by nose contact, or urine, etc., then why can't they test for it??? Are they assuming this also? How about soil contamination, why can't they test for that? If it is there, they should be able to find it, shouldn't they? The cases we had in two herds in Minnesota showed very, very low levels of contamination among pen mates. These animals shared common feeders and waters.
If you google recent research articles on CWD, I see many articles still refer to prions as a "theory". Why? After almost 30 years of prion research, why haven't they found a cure? In fact, have they even identified what a prion looks like? Are they chasing the "boogie man"?? Dr. Frank Bastien of the Univ. of Tulane, thinks that "it will turn out that the prion concept is wrong". Some researchers feel that CWD is caused by a bacteria. Researchers don't even agree on the cause and spread of CWD. Yet conservation people are making claims they can't support.
I am sorry I sound so skeptical on CWD. I go a long way back with prion diseases. I had cattle we imported from Europe depopulated for 'mad cow" back in the early 1990's. I spent a lot of time in Europe back then. We saw "mad cow" disease turn into a big "haddo" about nothing over here. In fact, it has turned into a non-issue.
The people that seem to be stirring the pot on this, are the conservation people. In the "Federal Rule" comments, APHIS/USDA states that they have determined CWD to be a "low infectious disease". Then why are wildlife agencies stating in news articles, that it is highly infectious? Just the opposite what the nations animal health specialists are saying!!! Seems to me they have some other agenda.
Gary
Pulled this out of Wikipedia:
Which one describes deer farmers/preserves, and which one describes what wildlife agencies are promoting?
Capitalist mode of production
"private ownership of the means of production"
The capitalist mode of production is characterised by private ownership of the means of production, extraction of the surplus value created in production by a class of private owners (referred to as exploitation), wage-based labour, and distribution of both capital goods and consumer goods in a mainly market-based economy (referred to as commodity production)
Socialism
Socialism (Lower-stage communism)
A socialist society would consist of production being carried out, organized in a manner to directly satisfy human needs, with the working-class cooperatively or publicly owning the means of production.
Communism (Upper-stage communism)
" where the good of all "
Wildlife says we are threatening the "public" deer. In China they don't say "public", they say "peoples".
Wildlife says we should be eliminated to "protect the safety of the public wildlife". They are implying, "for the good of the all"
What does that sound like??
Where form of government are we under?
Gary
Which one describes deer farmers/preserves, and which one describes what wildlife agencies are promoting?
Capitalist mode of production
"private ownership of the means of production"
The capitalist mode of production is characterised by private ownership of the means of production, extraction of the surplus value created in production by a class of private owners (referred to as exploitation), wage-based labour, and distribution of both capital goods and consumer goods in a mainly market-based economy (referred to as commodity production)
Socialism
Socialism (Lower-stage communism)
A socialist society would consist of production being carried out, organized in a manner to directly satisfy human needs, with the working-class cooperatively or publicly owning the means of production.
Communism (Upper-stage communism)
" where the good of all "
Wildlife says we are threatening the "public" deer. In China they don't say "public", they say "peoples".
Wildlife says we should be eliminated to "protect the safety of the public wildlife". They are implying, "for the good of the all"
What does that sound like??
Where form of government are we under?
Gary
ANTLER VALLEY said:
The Meeting last night was awesome, I was not able to make it because of a sick child. However, we outnumbered the public and spoke for 95% of the time. Listen, what we are doing here in Missouri and as a whole industry is working. With the help of everyone here and on our Facebook page Our Missouri Whitetails we are approaching 2000 LIKES in just 2 months....WOW..., we are changing minds and making a difference...After the meeting the MDC approached several of us to speak with...They are aware of what we are doing and concerned with the stance they have taken...They know we will not go quietly or...We keep fighting... This is long overdue, Thank you to the Brakke's, I can't imagine all that you have gone through and we are all here for you, Joe and Kurt Humphrey, Nathan Blosser, Sam James and the MWBHRA association (Everyone else), it's awesome to be apart of this with y'all and being able to see the difference that we are making. Everyone here and that has gotten on board with our industries fight....Thank you, troy
Joined Apr 2009
1,136 Posts | 0+
Bedford, PA
Joined Apr 2009
1,562 Posts | 0+
cental Pennsylvania
G O Whitetails said:
Its all very confusing to me that's for sure. What are they even testing for in a CWD test and how does said test register a positive? They would have to know if they are testing for a bacteria, prion, protein etc etc right??
I'd like to see a cwd tested pen left with deer and see over their life time ifthey all end up positive for CWD, half, a quarter of them? Could either mean some just never will get it, are immune, its just not that contagious, or we do not fully understand the mode of cwd.
