C'mon Missouri!!!

Just my opinion regarding the meetings that MDC is having across the state. They are using CWD as the platform to bring landowners and deer hunters to the table in their fight against us. I do not believe MDC 's primary concern is CWD. This is clearly a battle - MDC vs. Deer Farmers.

If their primary concern was the whitetail deer and the safety and health of our citizens why would the discussion revolve around CWD. Has there ever been a confirmed and documented case of a free ranging deer dying from CWD? 1000's of deer dye annually here in Missouri to EHD without MDC being concerned.

In 2012 there were 31,347 vehicle accidents here in Missouri involving whitetail deer with property damage of $97,269,741.00. I can't find the data as to how many people lost their lives in these accidents.

If they were truly interested in protecting the deer and our citizens wouldn't it make more sense to propose high fence along all Interstate Highways instead of double fencing breeding pens and hunting ranches???

they use CWD as their crutch. they will claim ehd comes and goes its not there all the time. They have scared hunters/public to death in the past and that's what they know they can build on. We all know what CWD is because we live and breathe it. Until we get a vaccine or live test we will always have to deal with the b.s. The humane society has really picked up steam on all fronts. They have been after the walking horse industry for years and years and are finally getting it done. They close one border at a time and they WILL get it done.

Until we fight back by suing for restriction of interstate commerce I dont think we will make any headway. The best thing Ohio and PA has done is got their industries under the department of ag and out of the DNR's hands, I think if MO can get it done they will be much better off.I know it cost Ohio tons of money to do it but it was worth it to their indudstry. I wanted to try to get this done in Indiana but it unfortunately fell on deaf ears. I think as long as a DNR has control, the humane society will keep coming at those states until they get it done. The HSUS knows they can. I have been worried for some time that will happen here.

jerrilee cave said:

they use CWD as their crutch. they will claim ehd comes and goes its not there all the time. They have scared hunters/public to death in the past and that's what they know they can build on. We all know what CWD is because we live and breathe it. Until we get a vaccine or live test we will always have to deal with the b.s. The humane society has really picked up steam on all fronts. They have been after the walking horse industry for years and years and are finally getting it done. They close one border at a time and they WILL get it done.

Until we fight back by suing for restriction of interstate commerce I dont think we will make any headway. The best thing Ohio and PA has done is got their industries under the department of ag and out of the DNR's hands, I think if MO can get it done they will be much better off.I know it cost Ohio tons of money to do it but it was worth it to their indudstry. I wanted to try to get this done in Indiana but it unfortunately fell on deaf ears. I think as long as a DNR has control, the humane society will keep coming at those states until they get it done. The HSUS knows they can. I have been worried for some time that will happen here.

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We are under the Dept Of Ag and they are the ones that want our borders shut. DEC only had control of the number of deer per pen size. They swear up and down that they are not here to shut us down from doing business with ourselves and selling out of state. They are just scared sh!tless that CWD will come back. We need our lawyers to show and prove what CWD is not and what it has not done to the herds in any state.

Four Seasons Whitetails said:

We are under the Dept Of Ag and they are the ones that want our borders shut. DEC only had control of the number of deer per pen size. They swear up and down that they are not here to shut us down from doing business with ourselves and selling out of state. They are just scared sh!tless that CWD will come back. We need our lawyers to show and prove what CWD is not and what it has not done to the herds in any state.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't NY already have confirmed CWD? So when you say they are scared that CWD will "come back", I'm a little confused. Not trying to be smart, I just don't understand that statement. If you have it, you have it. Or am I missing something.

Mike, If it is your Dept. Of Ag. trying to closing borders, haven't they even read the prelim. to the Federal Rule?

Four Seasons Whitetails said:

We are under the Dept Of Ag and they are the ones that want our borders shut. DEC only had control of the number of deer per pen size. They swear up and down that they are not here to shut us down from doing business with ourselves and selling out of state. They are just scared sh!tless that CWD will come back. We need our lawyers to show and prove what CWD is not and what it has not done to the herds in any state.

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SCARED IT WILL COME BACK.... I thought it would destroy a herd, how did the get rid of it?

WillPenn Whitetails said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't NY already have confirmed CWD? So when you say they are scared that CWD will "come back", I'm a little confused. Not trying to be smart, I just don't understand that statement. If you have it, you have it. Or am I missing something.

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We had like 5 positives back in 2005 from a taxidermist that had a few deer.He did work on mule deer and whitetails from out west. He also had fawns on his farm...That the state picked up and brought them to him to care for.. After 3 or 4 years of heavy testing of all hunter and road killed deer in that cwd area with no positives and then testing a few thousand every year since then with no other positives found.



So i guess their way of thinking is...Its gone and they dont want it back..Well that statement alone shows just what CWD is not. Remember most white coats will tell you that once you get it, it will be there forever and will kill all the deer! Well we are proof that those words are not true.

G O Whitetails said:

Mike, If it is your Dept. Of Ag. trying to closing borders, haven't they even read the prelim. to the Federal Rule?

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They told us point blank that they do not care about any standard or rule and they dont care what any other states are doing.



Thats why the statements about the standards and rules not being a big deal when states can make any rules they want have been made. I also believe thats why some are willing to over look some things and are willing to work with the states to fix some problems as we go along, So they will not shut down the industry in that state as a whole.

Play ball our way or we will stick the bat, You know where!

Mike, Aren't these the same people that want to spread composted deer in the roadside flower beds? Even though science says composting doesn't kill the prion.

Gary

G O Whitetails said:

Mike, Aren't these the same people that want to spread composted deer in the roadside flower beds? Even though science says composting doesn't kill the prion.

Gary

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You betcha...They are also the ones that say that is a lower risk of moving around CWD then bringing in a deer from Pa because of sloppy paperwork and laxed rules! Go Figure!

Great news, Troy. Keep up the good work. Remember, if we don't tell our story someone else will.

Rhonda Brakke said:

Great news, Troy. Keep up the good work. Remember, if we don't tell our story someone else will.

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Right, and the problem is their story about us is twisted.

Troy have you forwarded the youtube link to Keith Warrens video of CWD to the legislatures?

Gary

Does anyone know at this time how many prions a deer has to get for CWD to take hold? Is deer to deer contact the easiest contaction method? From the soil/plant? Carrion?



Something else to consider about MDC using the word captive. I doubt that would be the case if there were no free roaming deer in the state being the same species as those fenced in. If we had wild cattle then I'm sure they would call those on ranches as captive cattle just the same.

letemgrow said:

Does anyone know at this time how many prions a deer has to get for CWD to take hold? Is deer to deer contact the easiest contaction method? From the soil/plant? Carrion?



Something else to consider about MDC using the word captive. I doubt that would be the case if there were no free roaming deer in the state being the same species as those fenced in. If we had wild cattle then I'm sure they would call those on ranches as captive cattle just the same.

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I would say all of the above. To a point it really does not matter. They are talking about closing the doors to the whitetail scent industry because cwd can be spred by urine. Well how can this be spred by urine but they cant test urine to find cwd? Dont Get It.



Most have no problem with the word captive. Anything behind fence is captive to a point. The problem lies with the states DEC nad DNR, staying out of the farming of livestock. I know ours cant manage our wild herds so i would not want them anywhere near mine.

At the Macon Missouri Meeting Sept. 3, 2013 I asked 3 pointed questions and they were all directed to Jason Summers, MDC Head Deer Biologist.

1. I asked,"Why did Wind Cave National park just released Elk from a known EHD Epicenter in to Custer National Park, where the prevelancey rate in Wind Cave was between 6 and 8%, how is that possible? The wind cave herd was supposed to be a herd of 250 to 400 animals but had reached numbers as high as 975 animals. If CWD is so lethal, how is this possible"

2. I asked "How did MDC Get to reintroduce elk in to Missouri from a non certified CWD herd with a rectal biopsy test, but it was not a good enough test for the Whitetail and Elk breeders in Missouri to use."

3. I asked "Was it true that Heartland Wildlife Ranch tested more animals than they were required, and If so why has MDC not made this known and why has there been no transparency between Missouri Deer breeders testing procedures and the general public. I also stated that this was one of the worst cases of mis-information and outright deception from any governmental organization I had ever seen. Now that the back lash is starting to pile up when will the public be made aware of the testing and the true numbers that whitetail breeders test and the deception that the MDC says they test be available"



Here are the answers I got:

1. First it was stated they did not have any control over the Wind Cave and Custer park herds and they were highly opposed to the release, as were many governmental agencies. But they had no scientific or other rational to why the herd numbers exploded in the last 5 years even with a CWD prevelency rate of over 6 to 8 times that in most states.

2. The answer to this astonished me. The reason that MDC was able to reintroduce Elk in to Missouri was because the Missouri Dept. of Ag gave them permission and thought it was a low risk decision. If that is the case then shouldn't the Dept of Ag's comments that Whitetail Deer Should be under the Dept of Ag as livestock be a good enough decision as well! The Dept of Ag's decision on the reintroduction of elk in to Missouri was ok with MDC but any regulations the Missouri Dept. of Ag has for Whitetail Deer is not good enough. Double standards for sure!!!

3. This is the one that really got me. Jason summers stated that we had already discussed this at several other meeting and it did not need to be discussed again. He would not even answer my question. He basically refused to answer and set down. I guess there will never be any transparency for the public, I guess this is just another corrupt governmental organization that is driven by money and mis-information as usual.

I think It would be nice to see these questions asked in front of a group of Legislatures and Congressmen. Then see if they answer or refuse, maybe they will just say they will have to get back with us for those answers?



Thanks

Eric Pinkston

Midwest Deer Sales said:

3. I asked "Was it true that Heartland Wildlife Ranch tested more animals than they were required, and If so why has MDC not made this known and why has there been no transparency between Missouri Deer breeders testing procedures and the general public. I also stated that this was one of the worst cases of mis-information and outright deception from any governmental organization I had ever seen. Now that the back lash is starting to pile up when will the public be made aware of the testing and the true numbers that whitetail breeders test and the deception that the MDC says they test be available"

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Say Jason answered yes, they did test more than they were required.



First, what were/are the requirements? Heartland volunteered to test that deer right?? That is what I have read about the Heartland positive anyways and I'll have to read back thru, but pretty sure that was from MDC info stating it was a volunteer test on Heartland's behalf.



Second, what does testing beyond protocol prove to make it a pertinent question?? I mean, what were you getting at by asking??

letemgrow said:

Say Jason answered yes, they did test more than they were required.



First, what were/are the requirements? Heartland volunteered to test that deer right?? That is what I have read about the Heartland positive anyways and I'll have to read back thru, but pretty sure that was from MDC info stating it was a volunteer test on Heartland's behalf.



Second, what does testing beyond protocol prove to make it a pertinent question?? I mean, what were you getting at by asking??

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The point being is that Deer breeders and Hunting facilities are the only ones that will find CWD. If it were not for our stringent protocol most cases of CWD would go undetected for many months or even years, because at a less than 1% percent testing rate that the MDC tests at they would never find a positive. No matter where CWD started, in a high fence or outside, it would not be found until it reaches the confines of a breeder or hunting facility because they are not testing enough animals. Simply put they know we as breeders and hunting facilities will always find it first and they know it. Deer breeders test at a rate of 100% and that's a fact JACK!

It is time MDC told John Q Public what exactly the requirements are that all deer breeders and hunting ranches are required to go thru, instead they just let the public think were are a bunch of rogue individuals that sneak deer across boarders and fake paper work to get by. This is not true.

MDC looks at all of our paper work every year. If they can not be transparent then they should relinquish their governing status over our industry to a Department that can be transparent and do a better job like Dept. of Ag. The Dept of Ag was a good enough department to let MDC reintroduce Elk into Missouri but they are not for the health of Missouri Whitetail Breeders and Elk Breeders. Seems hypocritical to me! That's what I am getting at!

Midwest Deer Sales said:

The point being is that Deer breeders and Hunting facilities are the only ones that will find CWD. If it were not for our stringent protocol most cases of CWD would go undetected for many months or even years, because at a less than 1% percent testing rate that the MDC tests at they would never find a positive. No matter where CWD started, in a high fence or outside, it would not be found until it reaches the confines of a breeder or hunting facility because they are not testing enough animals. Simply put they know we as breeders and hunting facilities will always find it first and they know it. Deer breeders test at a rate of 100% and that's a fact JACK!

It is time MDC told John Q Public what exactly the requirements are that all deer breeders and hunting ranches are required to go thru, instead they just let the public think were are a bunch of rogue individuals that sneak deer across boarders and fake paper work to get by. This is not true.

MDC looks at all of our paper work every year. If they can not be transparent then they should relinquish their governing status over our industry to a Department that can be transparent and do a better job like Dept. of Ag. The Dept of Ag was a good enough department to let MDC reintroduce Elk into Missouri but they are not for the health of Missouri Whitetail Breeders and Elk Breeders. Seems hypocritical to me! That's what I am getting at!

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And thats a fact all the way up here and all across the country. Problem here lies in the Dept Of Ag as its them that wants the borders closed and the dec is happy to ride their coat tails. A meeting next week with the Gov may help. We will see but i can tell you that that man is not in good standing to be revoted back into his position after him slaming the nys gun law down our throats. So sportsmen want him gone and you can bet i will remind him of the 500 plus farms, Familys and friends that will be added to the list if he goes along with this crazy way of thinking about dealing with something that is doing nothing to any deer herds in any state!!!!

Midwest Deer Sales said:

The point being is that Deer breeders and Hunting facilities are the only ones that will find CWD. If it were not for our stringent protocol most cases of CWD would go undetected for many months or even years, because at a less than 1% percent testing rate that the MDC tests at they would never find a positive. No matter where CWD started, in a high fence or outside, it would not be found until it reaches the confines of a breeder or hunting facility because they are not testing enough animals. Simply put they know we as breeders and hunting facilities will always find it first and they know it. Deer breeders test at a rate of 100% and that's a fact JACK!

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That's why I would like to see MDC test wild deer around several captive ranches/breeders at higher rates and also out in areas without any captive deer. I'm not talking about a 1% rate, more like a 10% rate for a few years...that would help paint a broader picture about how prevelant CWD is in the wild and how game farms play into this IMO.



It is much easier to find it in a pen without question (easier monitoring).