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cwd in Racine County

Just woke up and see there are a lot of posts to read over to see everyone's responeses. Right now I have to work but once I get out of Japan and over to Anchorage I will catch up you all have a good night.
 
I have not always been one to talk about doom and gloom for our industry. However on this topic I frankly have little hope of a reversal of the same path we have been on for many years.

Make no mistake, I love the deer business. I stayed in it back when WI went through the drastic changes after the “discovery” of CWD took place down in the southern part of the state. I made trips to my state capitol and to Washington D.C. and took part in plenty of meeting. During the height of the CWD scare here in WI I made the decision to not only stay in the industry but to move full steam ahead with my plan to build a rock solid genetic herd. I made large investments in fencing, handling systems, semen and does. Over the years I donated heavily to the associations. I was active and tried hard to make a difference. However I always felt like the priority of NADEFA was somewhere other than CWD. Yes there were efforts towards the topic but not on a level I felt we could or should be doing. The public image campaign was non-existent in my opinion. That was a huge setback. As GOWhitetails stated the DNR is looked at like they are the whitetail experts. We the deer growers are in fact the experts on whitetails. We know more about managing them than what the DNR would ever hope to know. If you want to know how to fix your car do you go to the DMV and ask them? No, you go to a mechanic and ask him/her because that is what they do! But our industry has done a poor job of showing the level of knowledge we have as an industry. Yes I know recently there have been some advancements in this area and that is super. However most of these have been done without the assistance or direction of a state or national org. Congrats to those privately created and funded programs!

Can our industry survive this steady decline in public trust? The steady slide that each “new area of infection” is somehow the result of a deer farmer? The black eye many hunters see our industry as having? Yes I think this trend can be reversed, however a serious and well orchestrated program needs to be developed and carried out. And it needs to be done fast!

I agree that CWD can be a non-event. I agree that more creative ways of herd status certification might be the answer. I agree herd destruction both in the wild and in our private herds is NOT the answer.

But anyone who thinks that the same approach we have taken the last decade + will somehow avoid our industry being shutdown is simply fooling themselves. The very fact that a WI biologist can make a speech and tell outright lies about the topic and go unchecked is proof that their side is winning the campaign. Resentment towards the industry is growing faster everyday. Each “new discovery” in a new state is adding momentum to the other sides efforts to shut us down completely. I agree with the statement made by Mike that we need it to be found in every state. Especially the states with no deer farms. However those states aren’t looking for it at a rate that makes finding it very likely. This is because it is in their best interest NOT to find it. But there needs to be a strong program in place to win the support of the general public. Obviously a court fight is expensive and apparently the leadership feels it is not a winnable solution. So lets use science and common sense and win the hearts and minds of the general public.

I am sure there will be some who will jump me for what I have said here. Oh well, those who know me know I speak my mind.



P.S. And yes doing flights that are 8, 10, 12 hours and longer we do take naps. What sucks is when you wake up and look over and see the other person sleeping also :eek:

LOL LOL :p
 
Educating the public is what needs to be done. We are trying to do it in our own small way with our TV show. It reaches more people than any publication etc. It reaches a much wider audience as well. We are hoping people come to understand what we do and accept it as a normal agricultural business.
 
I have talked to our Cervid Field Director for the IN BOAH adnauseum about this Roger. I said to her we all should just get it, and she said what will that change for you in Indiana? Our state vet/board is not of the mind that any regulations on imports should change and the DNR will fight it tooth and nail, so we could fight to change them but waste our time and money. She says that we have to attack this at the Federal level and that means NADEFA SHOULD and needs to lead the fight.
 
IndependenceRanch said:
I have not always been one to talk about doom and gloom for our industry. However on this topic I frankly have little hope of a reversal of the same path we have been on for many years.

Make no mistake, I love the deer business. I stayed in it back when WI went through the drastic changes after the “discovery” of CWD took place down in the southern part of the state. I made trips to my state capitol and to Washington D.C. and took part in plenty of meeting. During the height of the CWD scare here in WI I made the decision to not only stay in the industry but to move full steam ahead with my plan to build a rock solid genetic herd. I made large investments in fencing, handling systems, semen and does. Over the years I donated heavily to the associations. I was active and tried hard to make a difference. However I always felt like the priority of NADEFA was somewhere other than CWD. Yes there were efforts towards the topic but not on a level I felt we could or should be doing. The public image campaign was non-existent in my opinion. That was a huge setback. As GOWhitetails stated the DNR is looked at like they are the whitetail experts. We the deer growers are in fact the experts on whitetails. We know more about managing them than what the DNR would ever hope to know. If you want to know how to fix your car do you go to the DMV and ask them? No, you go to a mechanic and ask him/her because that is what they do! But our industry has done a poor job of showing the level of knowledge we have as an industry. Yes I know recently there have been some advancements in this area and that is super. However most of these have been done without the assistance or direction of a state or national org. Congrats to those privately created and funded programs!

Can our industry survive this steady decline in public trust? The steady slide that each “new area of infection” is somehow the result of a deer farmer? The black eye many hunters see our industry as having? Yes I think this trend can be reversed, however a serious and well orchestrated program needs to be developed and carried out. And it needs to be done fast!

I agree that CWD can be a non-event. I agree that more creative ways of herd status certification might be the answer. I agree herd destruction both in the wild and in our private herds is NOT the answer.

But anyone who thinks that the same approach we have taken the last decade + will somehow avoid our industry being shutdown is simply fooling themselves. The very fact that a WI biologist can make a speech and tell outright lies about the topic and go unchecked is proof that their side is winning the campaign. Resentment towards the industry is growing faster everyday. Each “new discovery” in a new state is adding momentum to the other sides efforts to shut us down completely. I agree with the statement made by Mike that we need it to be found in every state. Especially the states with no deer farms. However those states aren’t looking for it at a rate that makes finding it very likely. This is because it is in their best interest NOT to find it. But there needs to be a strong program in place to win the support of the general public. Obviously a court fight is expensive and apparently the leadership feels it is not a winnable solution. So lets use science and common sense and win the hearts and minds of the general public.

I am sure there will be some who will jump me for what I have said here. Oh well, those who know me know I speak my mind.



P.S. And yes doing flights that are 8, 10, 12 hours and longer we do take naps. What sucks is when you wake up and look over and see the other person sleeping also :eek:

LOL LOL :p
Click to expand...



Roger i dont think anyone is going to jump you for these words. Sounds to me like you did your part but now is not the time to throw in the towel.



I do agree that we dont see NADEFA saying much on this but im sure behind the scenes they are up on it. I see they are looking for a few people to fill some spots and some say i have a big mouth so maybe i can use it for good and throw my name in the ring. I might not get many votes but i do believe we need people in there that will get involved and make some noise. I hear from many that memberships will be down this year but we cant just give in to them. I think this is going to come out to prove cwd is not the kill all they say it is. Man just look at an early post. A guy from Illinios didnt even know they found wild cases in his own state. There have been 36 cases but we dont hear that, Let one farm in that state have a case and it will be on the morning news!
 
How is changing it on Federal level going to help? APHIS has already wiped it's hands of CWD and dumped the issue to the states, because they already recognize it to be unlikely candidate for eradication.
 
The abatement/management plan for CWD will need to be based upon acceptable risk. Hopefully deer farmers are involved with measuring & assessing risk.



In the UK, the Dept for Environment Food & Rural Affairs has posted it's qualitative risk assessment for CWD. It's worth a look for those considering the risk.



Their web site is www.defra.gov.uk

Someone more puter savy may be able to post a better link to this paper.



England has managed BSE extremely well & has experience with a prion disease. They seem to be alert but not alarmed about CWD at the moment.

The major difference you have from others experience though, is this is the first time the world has really seen a prion disease in wildlife populations & not livestock.



Just my 2 cents worth, please don't raise or compare EHD "ever",when discussing CWD. This only raises another negative about deer which isn't needed right now,& discredits the opinion of those comparing the risk of the two very different diseases.



Stay Staunch

Sharkey
 
sharkey said:
The abatement/management plan for CWD will need to be based upon acceptable risk. Hopefully deer farmers are involved with measuring & assessing risk.



In the UK, the Dept for Environment Food & Rural Affairs has posted it's qualitative risk assessment for CWD. It's worth a look for those considering the risk.



Their web site is www.defra.gov.uk

Someone more puter savy may be able to post a better link to this paper.



England has managed BSE extremely well & has experience with a prion disease. They seem to be alert but not alarmed about CWD at the moment.

The major difference you have from others experience though, is this is the first time the world has really seen a prion disease in wildlife populations & not livestock.



Just my 2 cents worth, please don't raise or compare EHD "ever",when discussing CWD. This only raises another negative about deer which isn't needed right now,& discredits the opinion of those comparing the risk of the two very different diseases.



Stay Staunch

Sharkey
Click to expand...



edit

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animal-disea...ase-121029.pdf

I hope this works ???
 
Sharkey,

No one is comparing EHD and CWD.....we know they are two different diseases.......However, one....(EHD) is much more deadly to our whitetail population than the other (CWD)......that is the only way they are being compared.....I don't think you realize how deadly EHD is and has been to our Whitetails here in the states.....each year it seems there is a new strain of the disease and they have not even been able to deal with the first strain....I believe there are 6 different strains to date......this is why there has been a lot of talk of both of these diseases......
 
Dennis, there have been numerous posts suggesting EHD is a greater problem than CWD & I get the view from here that many think this way.EHD may be currently hurting many deer farms, & wildlife populations,however CWD has the potential to do much worse.



I don't think you realise how deadly all hemorrhagic disease is to our deer & exotics around the "world" & not just in the States. I personally know this "too well".



Raising EHD when discussing CWD isn't focusing on the solution,it's just raising another negative & "red herring". I'm not saying EHD is not important,but its a completely different issue.



Cheers Sharkey
 
Sharkey,

I certainly respect your opinion and I do realize CWD is a threat.....however, I do not see it as threatening to the whitetail population as EHD.....it has not killed the numbers of Whitetails that EHD has ......some farms have lost their entire herd...others have lost 75% and many...many.... have lost 100's and 100's of deer just in one year to EHD.......both diseases need our focus....but the one that is currently threatening the the Whitetails population the most right now is EHD...by far! So you can't expect us not to talk about it as it does not matter....cause it does and it needs to be addressed just as much or more than CWD in my opinion.... But I do think Both need our focus....not just CWD.......and that is what's happening right now over here....CWD is getting all of the attention.....
 
sharkey said:
Dennis, there have been numerous posts suggesting EHD is a greater problem than CWD & I get the view from here that many think this way.EHD may be currently hurting many deer farms, & wildlife populations,however CWD has the potential to do much worse.



I don't think you realise how deadly all hemorrhagic disease is to our deer & exotics around the "world" & not just in the States. I personally know this "too well".



Raising EHD when discussing CWD isn't focusing on the solution,it's just raising another negative & "red herring". I'm not saying EHD is not important,but its a completely different issue.



Cheers Sharkey
Click to expand...



Can you please explain how you think cwd can be this massive killer? There are a bunch of different states that have had cases of cwd and they now have just as many or more whitetails than they did before the cases. How can something be a harm to an animal that they say would take up to 3 years before it even starts to show in the animal. Our whitetails in the wild and behind fence are shot at or before 3 years of age.



I myself have never heard of a deer die behind fence that died from cwd. I have never heard of one shot by a hunter that was looking sick and tested positive. There are top bucks and a huge amount of does coming out of Wis,Ny and even Illinios is still killing buck after buck that are making the books and they have had 36 cases this year. Yes they were all normal acting deer doing what deer do and shot by hunters.



I believe this has been proven by the whitetail deer themselves that this crap is not going to wipe them out. Its been around 30 plus years and no states have ever had a hunting season stopped because of low populations.



I think it is something that a deer can catch and yes in time it might kill it but guess what...Its been proven for years that a coyote, a hunter or a car is going to take a deer out long before cwd!



I say i because thats my take on this crap and if someone can show me different i will stand corrected!
 
Personally I think CWD is a ******** condition totally blown out of proportion purely for political gain. If you want to worry about a disease that is similar but that is something we as a population should really be concerned with then worry about CJD and mad cow. Those diseases are actually a real concern. The only real threat associated with CWD is the killing that takes place by gov agencies in the name of "CWD control."
 
ddwhitetails said:
Sharkey,

I certainly respect your opinion and I do realize CWD is a threat.....however, I do not see it as threatening to the whitetail population as EHD.....it has not killed the numbers of Whitetails that EHD has ......some farms have lost their entire herd...others have lost 75% and many...many.... have lost 100's and 100's of deer just in one year to EHD.......both diseases need our focus....but the one that is currently threatening the the Whitetails population the most right now is EHD...by far! So you can't expect us not to talk about it as it does not matter....cause it does and it needs to be addressed just as much or more than CWD in my opinion.... But I do think Both need our focus....not just CWD.......and that is what's happening right now over here....CWD is getting all of the attention.....
Click to expand...



Dennis its fine to talk about EHD,you should hear me when I get started on MCF & sheep, I'm worse than a flamin dingo. The one should just not be raised with or against the other,"two wrongs" sort of thing, if you get my drift.



Ok, EHD is a virus we understand how its transmited, we still don't understand how it winters,but I believe we will. Because a virus is a life form we can kill it ,or deny it its requirements for life & its routes for infection.

It has a relatively short incubation period & is quickly recognised.To prevent it we only need to remove just one of either the vector,the carrier, or how it winters.



CWD is a prion disease. Prions are not alive & cant be killed.Prions survive outside their host for years ready to reinfect. Prions have a long incubation period & deer shed prions for several months before showing clinical signs,thus infecting their range for years. This disease is way closer to its begining & hasn't reached its critical mass by a long shot yet.

Is CWD a varient of another prion disease? If yes, then it's bad ("something we as a population should really be concerned about").

If you want to just look at the political/social threat from CWD then read a few threads on this forum. CWD has the potential to do much worse than a virus ever could to deer farming.



Stay Staunch

Sharkey
 
Is CWD a varient of another prion disease? If yes, then it's bad ("something we as a population should really be concerned about"). Quote..



This you say....If CWD is a varient of anothr prion disase?? Dont you think one should find out what your dealing with before you take out a persons life? They have no proof of anything. Show me the dead animals? All you ever see are the same few pics of a few deer that are sick or have died that have been floating around for 15plus years! They have been tossing around the same old bull with no backup at all. Explain how say a trophy whitetail state like Illinois, A state that kills huge older age trophy bucks each year. Has a great population of deer and probably brings in more out of state deer hunters than any other state and still is operating with CWD? After this many years and the way they blow this up we should be seeing dead whitetails laying all over. I mean how long can they keep throwing the same sh!t around and the deer themselves prove them wrong!
 
I agree with Sharkey that CWD could end up being worse, but not necessarily because of what the disease can do, but because of what people can do because of the disease. People can (and have tried to) decimate whole populations of whitetails in the name of curtailing CWD, and I believe they have done so without evidence that it will make a bit of difference. If there is any, and I mean any, evidence that CWD has jumped the species barrier into causing CJD in humans- look out. If you think it has hit the fan now, wait til you see what happens then!
 
Yeah.....I will admit CWD being a prion does scare me a little....however, I know with all of the deer harvested over the years someone has had to have eaten a deer with the disease...and I would think we would have heard about a human being infected by now....the CWD has been around for 40 some plus years now and I think we would have had some major issues with it by now....but I could be wrong....Sharkey certainly has a lot of knowledge with the prion diseases and I do respect his opinion.....my hope is that CWD is a different disease and will never be a threat to humans.......as is Mad Cow disease.......but the beef industry has dealt with it so I am certain we will be able to God forbid this would ever be the case. We do need to try and figure out a method of eliminating it ....and hopefully with all of the millions of dollars put towards CWD they will be able to do just that in the very near future......life without CWD would be awesome to me!!!
 

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