CWD Program HSUS

I saw a "man on the street" deal on Fox a few weeks ago and half of the people out there don't have a clue. They were asked about the IRS scandal, Benghazi, the NSA snooping and half the people didn't have any idea. They are living in their own little bubble. I'm sure the same is true for our industry. A lot of people just are doing their thing and don't pay attention. At least something simple and direct outlining things from a credible source would help. Maybe NADeFA has to issue Alerts or something, just so it isn't overused. But I don't expect people to read through volumes to try and figure out what it all means - they aren't going to do it. That is when the rumor mill and half truths start and get blown out of proportion. People with a small amount of incorrect info make assumptions and judgments. Let's get people the facts from a credible source so they can make their own decisions about any actions to take.

Wild rivers you are exactly right.......everyone is NOT going to sit down and read line for line as to what is going down as far as the standards that are being forced upon our industry.......it is unrealistic to think everyone is going to do that.........NADefa should be sending out a watered down version to all of it's members and it has not happened to date.....what are paying them for......this is the most serious attack on our industry that I have ever seen since I have been involved in Deer Farming.........we need to be able to lean on the organizations that have been put into place for our protection.......I realize there has been a lot of work and hours going towards the fight.....but I don't feel our recources have been used in our best interest.....people just have no clue what's going on....and that's because they are uninformed! Maybe if someone would get the word out to the masses we just might have the support we need to fight this injustice!!

Wild Rivers Whitetails said:

I saw a "man on the street" deal on Fox a few weeks ago and half of the people out there don't have a clue. They were asked about the IRS scandal, Benghazi, the NSA snooping and half the people didn't have any idea. They are living in their own little bubble. I'm sure the same is true for our industry. A lot of people just are doing their thing and don't pay attention. At least something simple and direct outlining things from a credible source would help. Maybe NADeFA has to issue Alerts or something, just so it isn't overused. But I don't expect people to read through volumes to try and figure out what it all means - they aren't going to do it. That is when the rumor mill and half truths start and get blown out of proportion. People with a small amount of incorrect info make assumptions and judgments. Let's get people the facts from a credible source so they can make their own decisions about any actions to take.

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Yes maybe from one source as to not confuse things. I think your right and i also believe the statement that was made by Laurie...When someone gets hit that sells animals all across the country, Then people will catch up!

Guys, When Dr Bill Hartmann, our State Vet., who served on the working group to correct this, and someone I have personally known, worked with, and respected for over 20 years, tells me this a bad document, I guess I will listen to him. He told me, quote " this is designed to put us out of business", "these guidelines are impossible". Why aren't we listening? The only group supporting this is NADEFA leadership.

I have the current version if you want it sent to you, send me your email. Decide for yourself. This is version 21. Dated 6-6-13 I don't know how to download it on here.

Gary, the PDF version of Version 21 is downloadable on the American Cervid Alliance news page as well the North American Elk Breeders Association's.

Ok dont rem my *** to bad for this. I cant understand half the crap that is in the rules and regs and just as i start to figure it out they change crap My question is if this all goes before Congress why not rally together and take capital hill No offense to anyone but if Blacks,gays and other groups can do it we can to we need to stop relying on others and come together as a group of many to show those SOBs we mean business and that we are not going to take this crap anymore I for one cant afford to do all this testing crap and then when I find a pos. pay for my herd to be killed off I say when and not if because they will find a pos in every herd until they can shut state by state down enough is enough

daywoodwhitetails said:

Ok dont rem my *** to bad for this. I cant understand half the crap that is in the rules and regs and just as i start to figure it out they change crap My question is if this all goes before Congress why not rally together and take capital hill No offense to anyone but if Blacks,gays and other groups can do it we can to we need to stop relying on others and come together as a group of many to show those SOBs we mean business and that we are not going to take this crap anymore I for one cant afford to do all this testing crap and then when I find a pos. pay for my herd to be killed off I say when and not if because they will find a pos in every herd until they can shut state by state down enough is enough

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Perfect Nick!! We all need that attitude.......come on big boys its no secret who you are on here .....you can showcase your bucks but you can't come on and support the very industry that keeps you a float.....the very people who made you what you are!!.......this is not meant for all of you.......i know many of you with big voices in this industry have been working hard behind the scenes......but if what I just said, ticked you off...then.....yes it was meant for

you!!! I am so tired of all the chest beating on here about who did this and who did that for

our Industry.....Guess what...it don't matter anymore!! We are were we are RiGHT NOW! I DONT CARE WHAT YOU DID!! I CARE ABOUT WHAT YOUR GOING TO DO NOW! I am willing to

strike a very large check IF I know it's going towards litigation to fight for our rights as deer

farmers......for some reason NADefa has made it known they do not support that direction!!

well then I question who they are fighting for!! And if I am wrong..,then it is their fault for

NOT INFORMING US....of What exactly is going on! I am tired of all this crap....I know I may

not be the most popular guy on these forums nor do I care......what I do care about is

everyone on here that likes to deer farm and do what they love in their hearts.......guys we are losing right now......and we are losing big time!! If you think we can't be put out of business your sadly mistaken!...it is happening at this very moment and we are letting it!.....if we don't step up NOW we have no one tp blame but ourselves!! I only have these forums to reach out.....I will make some calls to NADefa.......but my lonely call certianly won't make a difference...WE ALL NEED TOO! Lets show them an industry united.....and NADefa....wake up and help us be united by contacting all the masses and get the ball rolling! That's what we all pay you for!.....I thank you for what you have done to date....but you need to DO MORE! This I not just a single state at stake here....ITS THE WHOLE INDUSTRY!

ddwhitetails said:

Perfect Nick!! We all need that attitude.......come on big boys its no secret who you are on here .....you can showcase your bucks but you can't come on and support the very industry that keeps you a float.....the very people who made you what you are!!.......this is not meant for all of you.......i know many of you with big voices in this industry have been working hard behind the scenes......but if what I just said, ticked you off...then.....yes it was meant for

you!!! I am so tired of all the chest beating on here about who did this and who did that for

our Industry.....Guess what...it don't matter anymore!! We are were we are RiGHT NOW! I DONT CARE WHAT YOU DID!! I CARE ABOUT WHAT YOUR GOING TO DO NOW! I am willing to

strike a very large check IF I know it's going towards litigation to fight for our rights as deer

farmers......for some reason NADefa has made it known they do not support that direction!!

well then I question who they are fighting for!! And if I am wrong..,then it is their fault for

NOT INFORMING US....of What exactly is going on! I am tired of all this crap....I know I may

not be the most popular guy on these forums nor do I care......what I do care about is

everyone on here that likes to deer farm and do what they love in their hearts.......guys we are losing right now......and we are losing big time!! If you think we can't be put out of business your sadly mistaken!...it is happening at this very moment and we are letting it!.....if we don't step up NOW we have no one tp blame but ourselves!! I only have these forums to reach out.....I will make some calls to NADefa.......but my lonely call certianly won't make a difference...WE ALL NEED TOO! Lets show them an industry united.....and NADefa....wake up and help us be united by contacting all the masses and get the ball rolling! That's what we all pay you for!.....I thank you for what you have done to date....but you need to DO MORE! This I not just a single state at stake here....ITS THE WHOLE INDUSTRY!

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You have to remember that NADEFA is not just some letters. I find it very hard to believe that guys like Shawn, Tim, Jim Moses and most the rest on that board are not doing whatever they feel is the best for us all in the long run! These people all have skin in this game and they all own millions in animals and property. Do you really think they are just going to drop the ball themselves and lose everything they have invested also. We pay them to do a job. Im sure they are doing it!

Yep.mike and that's why I said there are many doing LOTS.....to help us as an Industry.....but...I still think NADefa as a whole has dropped the ball....and I still think that....I am sorry but if they don't support a legal action on our behalf...that is bull crap!!...they exist because of us...we pay them to keep us in business.....I don't care anymore.....I love what I do.......I am sick and tired of all the bull crap......I write a check out to Nadefa and the Pa deer farmers every stinking year because I want them to fight for my rights to Deer Farm......Sorry......but I don't think their doing a very good job.....and guess what.....it's my right to say so...........get the word out to the masses.......again...this is what needs to be done....we are losing this battle and I am tired of hearing all the bull crap.....we need to put up or shut up...those that don't want to fight need to go out.....shoot your deer in the head ...bury them and move on!! Cause they will be worthless to anyone other than yourself very soon!......WAKE UP!!

Wild Rivers asked a question concerning EWA and NAEBA's position concerning the standards that the three National associations worked to change. I can tell you this, after 6 months of negotiating we accomplished very little in the big scheme of things. Regardless what some in this industry believe, most every bone pitched our way has been changed. I personally have worked with many government officials but never have I found anyone more difficult to work with than Dr. Patty Klein. Could not understand why until I read the post by Rhonda Braake concerning Klein's involvement with HSUS. Really does not surprise anyone because USDA has been infiltrated with HSUS former foot soldiers. Dr. Bill Hartman said it best back at the very beginning and that was the standards should have been scrapped. Several others felt the same way and we had an opportunity to do that but industry squandered that chance away. There were those that wanted to "let the process play itself out" and see what evolved from the Standards working group's effort. Well we did that and I can tell you this, as Dr. Hartman has said this is a document designed to put breeders out of business. But again what can we expect. It was authored by a HSUS and USFWS foot soldier. This document is going to public comment and the ACA will be sending out key talking points and also will be discussing these talking points on next weeks call. Industry's public comments need to be articulate and directed at those areas of the standards that are onerous and intrusive, which is most of the document. As I said in the beginning we had an opportunity and lost it. Now it's up to our industry whether we want to say enough is enough or keep following some off the proverbial cliff. The choice is really simple. Please let your ACA representative know how you want our industry to proceed.

Sarg6207 said:

Wild Rivers asked a question concerning EWA and NAEBA's position concerning the standards that the three National associations worked to change. I can tell you this, after 6 months of negotiating we accomplished very little in the big scheme of things. Regardless what some in this industry believe, most every bone pitched our way has been changed. I personally have worked with many government officials but never have I found anyone more difficult to work with than Dr. Patty Klein. Could not understand why until I read the post by Rhonda Braake concerning Klein's involvement with HSUS. Really does not surprise anyone because USDA has been infiltrated with HSUS former foot soldiers. Dr. Bill Hartman said it best back at the very beginning and that was the standards should have been scrapped. Several others felt the same way and we had an opportunity to do that but industry squandered that chance away. There were those that wanted to "let the process play itself out" and see what evolved from the Standards working group's effort. Well we did that and I can tell you this, as Dr. Hartman has said this is a document designed to put breeders out of business. But again what can we expect. It was authored by a HSUS and USFWS foot soldier. This document is going to public comment and the ACA will be sending out key talking points and also will be discussing these talking points on next weeks call. Industry's public comments need to be articulate and directed at those areas of the standards that are onerous and intrusive, which is most of the document. As I said in the beginning we had an opportunity and lost it. Now it's up to our industry whether we want to say enough is enough or keep following some off the proverbial cliff. The choice is really simple. Please let your ACA representative know how you want our industry to proceed.

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Charly,



Two Questions



Having been in the hospital most of the past eight months, I probably have missed some of what has transpired from the efforts of ACA. Based on your statement above, it appears that ACA has accomplished at least a little. To date, what has been accomplished by ACA?



If ACA is going to be the new coalition, maybe it's time for ACA to regroup and see how the industry can somehow pull together. Based on some other post on this forum, many industry members feel they were not kept informed of what the industry leaders were doing and that the issues were not explained well enough.



Moving forward, how can ACA and other groups to a better job protecting and promoting this industry?

David,

The most important thing I can say about the ACA is that it has brought the Elk, Exotic, and Deer industries together and are talking. No one, or group should feel threatened by the ACA. It is not trying to steal members from anyone. Isn't talking, and sharing information amongst the industries good? Shouldn't we ALL, as our various industries, pull together?

Gary

Well I guess I thought NADEFA represented not just deer farmers, but elk, red deer, sika, and fallow. There are people, or at least were, that raised all of these species on the board. In fact, back 10-12 years ago, NADEFA was PRIMARILY these other species and Whitetails were the minority. I remember when Dave Griffith got on the board and he was the first whitetail person on the board!! So I do believe they represent all of the above and I do believe that is why there is confusion as to another group that represents the same people, what the difference is and why it is necessary.



Folks are getting different messages from different groups and don't know which is credible and what is fact. It goes back to people are not going to take the time to read through all of the proposed regs and standards and need help. They need one reliable source of factual information presented in a format tht is easy to read and understand.

I was at the NADEFA conference this spring. I saw very LITTLE influence of other species. If I was an outsider walking around the hall, I would have thought it was a deer association show. The literature we handed out in Washington, said there are 20,000 cervid farmers in the U.S. The last directory from NADEFA I got this winter, shows 1368 members in the U.S. That's 6.8% of the farmers. Where do these other 93% belong?

Again, the purpose of the ACA is to bring everyone together to have industry speak with ONE voice.

Wild Rivers Whitetails said:

Well I guess I thought NADEFA represented not just deer farmers, but elk, red deer, sika, and fallow. There are people, or at least were, that raised all of these species on the board. In fact, back 10-12 years ago, NADEFA was PRIMARILY these other species and Whitetails were the minority. I remember when Dave Griffith got on the board and he was the first whitetail person on the board!! So I do believe they represent all of the above and I do believe that is why there is confusion as to another group that represents the same people, what the difference is and why it is necessary.



Folks are getting different messages from different groups and don't know which is credible and what is fact. It goes back to people are not going to take the time to read through all of the proposed regs and standards and need help. They need one reliable source of factual information presented in a format tht is easy to read and understand.

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What if the one source isn't reliable? What if the industry gets lead down the path that one or a few THINK is the right direction? What if they make decisions based on how it personally effects or doesn't effect them? What happens when the organization that represents US no longer listens to the people it serves? What happens when you can no longer elect members that represent your best interest? Those people that are nominated are pre screened and sorted through before they reach the ballot, based on personal preference by the active board . The questions i have talked about sound alot like the OBAMA administration! A dictatorship that will eventually lead to the END! This is America and we can still choose who to follow and who represents us. If at any point we think that we are not being represented by a person, organization or group we have the freedom and power to change that. That is what the democratic process is set up for. We should be able to elect our leaders, and make sure that process isn't flawed!



sincerely,

joe deerfarmer

kurthumphrey said:

What if the one source isn't reliable? What if the industry gets lead down the path that one or a few THINK is the right direction? What if they make decisions based on how it personally effects or doesn't effect them? What happens when the organization that represents US no longer listens to the people it serves? What happens when you can no longer elect members that represent your best interest? Those people that are nominated are pre screened and sorted through before they reach the ballot, based on personal preference by the active board . The questions i have talked about sound alot like the OBAMA administration! A dictatorship that will eventually lead to the END! This is America and we can still choose who to follow and who represents us. If at any point we think that we are not being represented by a person, organization or group we have the freedom and power to change that. That is what the democratic process is set up for. We should be able to elect our leaders, and make sure that process isn't flawed!



sincerely,

joe deerfarmer

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Yeah thats a good one. Im sure the board members that have twice as much money and animals than most of who they represent are going to do something that willlead to an end of THEMSELVES! Some like the think these people have nothing vested in their own decisions!





Again, the purpose of the ACA is to bring everyone together to have industry speak with ONE voice.(Quote)



I believe that would make what 2,3,4 different voices we were hearing things from! Most thought NADEFA was the voice!

G O Whitetails said:

David,

The most important thing I can say about the ACA is that it has brought the Elk, Exotic, and Deer industries together and are talking. No one, or group should feel threatened by the ACA. It is not trying to steal members from anyone. Isn't talking, and sharing information amongst the industries good? Shouldn't we ALL, as our various industries, pull together?

Gary

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Gary,



I agree. ACA has brought some people together to talk and no group should feel threatened from that especially when one of the main promoters of ACA admits ACA has accomplished very little but maybe this is a start. Maybe, in the future, ACA will be able to do something that will benefit all involved in this industry regardless of what species we raise.

G O Whitetails - yes NADEFA has been overtaken by the whitetail industry versus the others. There are simply more whitetail producers and it is where the money is vs. the others. Why more people aren't members is anyone's guess. That was always an issue and always will be. At one point in time there was a lot of talk about the "big farmers" vs the "little guys", and the big guys running the show. That is probably true, but it is also true that the big guys who make their living deer farming are the ones that will fight the hardest to preserve it. Regardless of size everyone is passionate about their deer, BUT if it means your livelihood, that adds another layer of urgency to do things right to preserve it. Losing your hobby or pastime is one thing, losing the way you earn a living is another. We earn our living raising and hunting deer. We employ 3 full time people that rely on us for their livelihood. We have several suppliers who probably wouldn't be around if we weren't buying what we do from them. It is the same for any other deerfarmer who earns their living this way and like others said, those are the people that will fight the hardest for you.

kurthumphrey said:

What if the one source isn't reliable? What if the industry gets lead down the path that one or a few THINK is the right direction? What if they make decisions based on how it personally effects or doesn't effect them? What happens when the organization that represents US no longer listens to the people it serves? What happens when you can no longer elect members that represent your best interest? Those people that are nominated are pre screened and sorted through before they reach the ballot, based on personal preference by the active board . The questions i have talked about sound alot like the OBAMA administration! A dictatorship that will eventually lead to the END! This is America and we can still choose who to follow and who represents us. If at any point we think that we are not being represented by a person, organization or group we have the freedom and power to change that. That is what the democratic process is set up for. We should be able to elect our leaders, and make sure that process isn't flawed!



sincerely,

joe deerfarmer

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NAEBA did exactly what you described above. They changed the bylaws whereas the President now appoints a Committee to seek out candidates of the President and the Board's choice in an attempt to control who comes onto the Board.

Every time I come here I just get PO'd. Guys that I consider friends saying things that seem to be repeating what they are told or heard. I am no longer on the NADeFA board and I got off for a couple of reasons. One was I was sick of working my butt off to keep deer farmers in business only to be attacked by those very people. I have read and re-read these standards and I do agree the optional language has got to be changed but other than being very repetitious and using some language I take offense to, I am not seeing the part that is putting us out of business. I never wanted a federal rule and still don't but it is not putting anyone out of business. Would I change it if I could? Yes I would but I would pre-empt the states and make it legal to deer farm in every state and every border would be open, even Alabama. Ha. Anyone that believes this document was written to put us out of business either has an agenda or is seeing something I can't see. The attacks on NADeFA are not only unwarranted but not logical. I am a deer farmer, that's what I do, its how I make my living. Not many can say that and almost none that I know done it the way I did. I borrowed every penny to buy my deer, property and every thing that it took to run this place. I will be paid out in a couple of years and it has been a tough road. I have been decimated by being the epicenter of one of the worst ice storms in US history, a tornado that went directly through my breed pens, lost a great herd of does that I purchased when the ice storm forced a late delivery, got destroyed by EHD and lost all of the shooter bucks I purchased to ticks in my hunting area. That was 2001. I am not a big dog but a broke dog. I have found every way to lose yet I have survived. I may be broke forever but consider myself one of the lucky few. I love what I do and the people I know. I have been accused of things and lied about in emails that people have sent me. Most of the people I see here bitchin I never see working or donating. I see my friends attacked only for working for the industry for no pay. I guess we were all just stupid and are trying to close down the deer industry and put ourselves out of business and lose everything we worked for. I have a truckload more to say but I have to walk ten acres of pens checking my fawns.