Nadefa member or not ?

I think orgs like nadefa are great and do many many many good things however i feel that they need to focus more on the biggest part of the industry that is the shooter end and hunting end.This might even bring the member ship up.I know Kieth Warren is trying but that focus seems to be more on breeding end and i feel this is not were focus needs to be.We can keep bringing in new farmers to get money coming into the industry but if we care about these new guys like some say they do something has to be done with the end market or very few new farmers will make it for long.The way it is now the ones with success could give a crap less what happens to the new guys they may say different and not all are like that but from what i am seeing most are or they would be trying to support this effort.

If a guy owns a preserve a flooded market means he can buy bucks cheaper and take advantage of situation making a bigger profit.Maybe just maybe this is why most don't want to support this idea. The little guys will eventually die off shooter prices go back up we will find some new suckers to spend there money till market floods again then same thing all over again.A man who doesn't care for others does nothing about it but a man who cares for the well being of others will at least try to do something for others and to tare him apart or try to tear him apart is just wrong.

Willows & Whitetails said:

Roger, some people handle success better than others. You are not one of them!! That was uncalled for. Your post reminds me of how I feel having to read all your pebbles comments. After reading your posts for the last several years, I'm pretty sure that you know every cent you have given. And I bet the free advertising you got never entered your mind.

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Willows, Sorry to hear you feel that way. I think those who actually know me, know the luck I have been able to have so far in this industry has NOT changed me in any way. I have always called it like I see it, and that is certainly nothing new. Just the simple truth. And the truth is Wisdom has posted numerous times about how much he has given including the apparent actual dollar amounts. And as I stated I am sick of hearing that. Giving is supposed to be about the giving and not the return you hope to get from it.

And no, I in fact have NO IDEA how much we have given over the years. And I am not sure what "free advertising" you think a person gets by donating. I give because I give in hope that it will strengthen the deer industry and protect our freedoms. Nothing more.

As to my Pebbles comments, well ya got me there I am a Pebbles fan. Shame on me for sharing my thoughts and opinions on that line of deer. I didn't know that my sharing my thoughts about a line of deer was hurting you in some way. Consider it stopped. Sorry.



As to the efforts of Wisdom to create a stronger hunting market. I am in favor of any efforts that anyone makes to strengthen the deer industry as a whole. My comments about not wanting to hear how much money he has given to NADEFA has nothing to do with that. And when I see a viable plan being organized by a viable entity I will gladly donate to the cause.



However I think the intent of the thread was to determine why so many are not members of the the very orgs that protect your deer growing rights. And the fact is that NADEFA right now has a hard time standing in front of the lawmakers and saying they speak for the industry when so few are even members. The greatest thing anyone can do to give to the industry is join your national and state orgs. Give them the ability to speak with power and therefore be heard.

Roger,What do you consider a viable entity and were are they at and why aren't they saying any thing. Evidentaly they are very busy with other needs so some one needs to speak up or we can just sit around and do nothing at all. All you small guys(97%) out there need to get behind this plan cause it is for your benifit.Don't expect all in that (3%)to back this idea as some say they will.

I think this is a very good idea but do think we need NADeFA to help with this idea. This is such a big project it will take more than one person pushing it for all the States to benefit. Like many of you sitting in the background I will give whatever I can in deer to help the program. It is easy to see if we can get new people involved in the hunting part of the industry it will benefit all of the deer breeders down the road. Without growth in our hunting industry we will not need many more deer. Just imagine a new person hunting and all the positive things that person could tell all his friends and family. It would snowball and we could help turn our negative image into a positive one when this information is put to the public. We have lost a positive image from not trying to change it for all these years. It's about time we try to change our image to the public. Good job Wisdom and all that want to get behind this idea.

Virgil I will answer your question to me.

A viable entity in this case would be someone or some group capable of working, functioning, and developing a plan that has a reasonable chance of succeeding to achieve the end goal. In this case promotion of high fence hunting.

Key elements for me when giving to any org, group, person, or charity, is:

Do they have a cost structure that I feel is reasonable. (Money in vs money out)

Do they have a track record of success.

Do they have a dependable system in place to deal with the issues.

Are their goals reasonable and well thought out.

Could I in good conscious recommend to another person they participate in the effort.

I don't care if we are talking about relief efforts for a family who lost their home to a fire, if were talking an earthquake relief effort, or whatever kind of charity or org you choose to pick. When I give, I give to help. When I give I want to give with confidence that help will be gained by those who need it most.



So far the only thing I know about this "plan" is to give away free hunts. Well that is not a new idea. We have done it for years. I want to hear how giving away the hunt will produce results.



For instance I have a plan that I have been kicking around for a while now that I wanted to do here in our state with Whitetails Of Wisconsin. Just the other day I got a call from another member who had a similar idea or sorts and while talking with him we kinda blended the 2 ideas together.

His idea was to do things that socially give our industry a good image. Things like donating to public TV and to food pantries and the like. My idea was to sell raffle tickets for a hunt to raise money for W.O.W. I wanted to do it using the local fire departments and schools and churches. If someone from say the Edgar fire department wants to sell tickets they get a percentage of the sales to give to their department. The other percentage of the sales would go to W.O.W. But what if we expanded that idea to being the fire department gets a major percentage like say 80% of the sales. What an image boost to the industry this would be. Say each volunteer fire department sells 1000 tickets at $20 each. They get $16,000 to go for a new fire truck or whatever they need. W.O.W. gets $4,000. But what did the industry gain in image with the voters who some day might be asked to vote for or against allowing game farms to operate? Now what if this was done across the whole state in any fire department, church, school that wanted to take part. What could your local church do with an extra $16,000 or an extra $20,000? Would this kind of social effort make a difference in the minds of those not sure who we are and what we do? Then when PETA comes along talking about the money hungry sadists who exploit whitetail deer for their own greedy pocketbooks the lady who was able to use the new elevator in her church that was paid for by monies from a sale of tickets might tell PETA to shove it.

That (I think) is a plan that could give some reasonable results. More so than just giving away a free hunt to someone.

Roger I like your idea also as it will make many more people aware of this industry. We do need to improve our public image. Your idea would make more people aware of our industry that is for sure.



What I see from Wisdoms/Walks idea is if worked right it would help our hunting preserves right away. It should gain more support for our type of hunting. It would also help remove the excess bucks we have at this time. I think if we were to use the hunting community with this give away we would help unite this group with ours.



I know in the past we have all given away animals for ill children and our Vets. But that didn't really get to the hunting community or help our hunting facilities. By using sporting goods stores to promote this project we would expose our industry to the hunter. I for one want him in my camp and not at PETAs door helping them.



These are all good ideas, lets stop just talking about it and get walking it. Someone push this on NADeFA as a priority for public image for this industry and lets get the ball rolling.

Roger i agree that there needs to be a plan put in place in order for this to be a success...... The donations are just a part of the puzzle. We need to start somewhere though. Just like your plan it sounds great but we don't know for certian if it will work until it is put into place and you try it. I think it is a good idea to give away a hunt and give most of the proceeds to the organizations selling the tickets....hopefully they would be able to sell the tickets. I think these are all great ideas.....but the problem is we talk about them and talk aboiut them and then when someone tries to push a little to carry it to the next step everyone says hooold on we need to research this more....if we keep putting it off and putting it off it's going to be too late for alot of the farmers in this industry........we need to push HARD to get these ideas to the next step....as they say ......talk is cheap.......and we are all doing a lot of talking........Lets get this rolling......and i really do feel Wisdom is trying to get this to the next step and he should be commended for that........

Roger that was a great idea thats what Wisdom and the others were looking for ideas and proposed donations to see what resorces they will have to get this ball rolling. Now if everyone would stay focused and put something on the list of ideas and list of donations we could then take this to the next level.Nadefa is already very busy and is going to need help getting this going so why not get behind these guys and let them help Nadefa get this going.Just like you said the more support you have when you go to washington the easier it is to get point across same thing here.

Ha

Guys Diane (my bride of 36 years) and I are headed to Toledo tonight to support NADEFA. The PLAN this week is see every one of you there. Blessings and safe traveling

DD, I have been thinking about my idea for a while now. The only reason anyone now knows about it is the other day I and another guy were talking and during that talk I moved my idea from more of a fund raising/social idea to a mostly social program of sorts.

Then due to this discussion I blabbed my idea on here.

Now that I have posted on here what I have been thinking about, I guess I need to do what I was intending to do at some point. Draw up a plan on paper and submit it to my WOW board here in WI for consideration. Because I feel it is important for the effort to be well organized and well thought out by several parties before trying to implement it. It is my hope that through WOW I can secure the support to follow through with this effort. WOW has the treasurer in place to handle the funds coming in and going out. WOW has the established name to work from. They have the legal counsel to help put everything in place.

Could I do this on my own? Maybe, we have the hunting area, we have the bucks, we can contact people to get tickets printed, and we can try and start finding groups who want to participate. But like some of the reasons I said above I feel it is better to formally submit the idea to my state org for consideration. Which now I guess I have to do next.

Roger

This is good info. I had a similar thought but you have taken it to another level. Good job. We need you and your positive input. You as others have so much to offer.

IndependenceRanch said:

For instance I have a plan that I have been kicking around for a while now that I wanted to do here in our state with Whitetails Of Wisconsin. Just the other day I got a call from another member who had a similar idea or sorts and while talking with him we kinda blended the 2 ideas together.

His idea was to do things that socially give our industry a good image. Things like donating to public TV and to food pantries and the like. My idea was to sell raffle tickets for a hunt to raise money for W.O.W. I wanted to do it using the local fire departments and schools and churches. If someone from say the Edgar fire department wants to sell tickets they get a percentage of the sales to give to their department. The other percentage of the sales would go to W.O.W. But what if we expanded that idea to being the fire department gets a major percentage like say 80% of the sales. What an image boost to the industry this would be. Say each volunteer fire department sells 1000 tickets at $20 each. They get $16,000 to go for a new fire truck or whatever they need. W.O.W. gets $4,000. But what did the industry gain in image with the voters who some day might be asked to vote for or against allowing game farms to operate? Now what if this was done across the whole state in any fire department, church, school that wanted to take part. What could your local church do with an extra $16,000 or an extra $20,000? Would this kind of social effort make a difference in the minds of those not sure who we are and what we do? Then when PETA comes along talking about the money hungry sadists who exploit whitetail deer for their own greedy pocketbooks the lady who was able to use the new elevator in her church that was paid for by monies from a sale of tickets might tell PETA to shove it.

That (I think) is a plan that could give some reasonable results. More so than just giving away a free hunt to someone.

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My point exactly..............It seems to me that it would easier to stand before any local,state or federal entity and say "WE" represent the majority of our industry as we stand here before you today................THE NUMBERS do not lie............"WE" are a united "VOICE OF ONE".....................THAT IS MY POINT OF THIS POST!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT to bicker but to try and hammer home the fact "WE" All must unite and stand as ONE to be heard for the BENIFIT of us ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Am presenting a plan to the Nadefa Board for Keith Warren to do a hunting show promoting the hunting industry. I think the show is great that he does now, but i think we need a show to educate, promote , and tell our hunting story to the public.



This will require linking together all the state association as well as Nadefa, SCi, NRA, and other progressive organizations and business. Harry Strawser actually came up with the idea and told me and I'm, trying to give it the feet to be successful.



The way we change the industry is through marketing and perception. We need professionals in all areas running this and Keith Warren will do a great job.

That sounds great as long as the focus is on the hunting end and not the breeding end.Seems we have enuff breeding interests we need more hunting iterests to level things out.

The only focus is the hunting preserves.

Wayne and,Roger if numbers are that important then maybe Nadefa should offer a free membership for those that would be willing to have their name put on list. If they want on mailing list they would have to pay a fee. Just a thought but if it would help get numbers up why not. It would be another way for some to show their support that may not be able to in other ways for one reason or another.

Virgil, I know not everyone can afford to pay/contribute tons of money to every little thing that comes along. But I also think that if they can afford to feed their deer, they can then afford to join their state and national orgs who actually fight to improve the markets they hope to sell in, not to mention their right to even own the deer.



I actually feel the question should be can deer growers afford NOT to join their state and national orgs?



Also I present this fact that recently happened.

Recently a paid 1 year membership to W.O.W. was provided to John Yoder for a giveaway at his auction. The winner gave it back saying they had no use for that. So there is a FREE membership that was turned down. I think some people just can't be helped no matter how hard you try to help them.

You said more names on a membership would look better and have more power when taken to congress. Would this not be worth a shot to try and get more names.All have different opinions on why they do or do not join their state or national orgs that doesn't make them a bad person.

I've got my own idea on why someone should be a member of what they believe in or what benefits themselves. I'm a NRA member because I believe in the second amendment and feel it is my fair share to give them some money to fight for something I believe in. I don't have the time to give my personal time away. I commend those who take their time to fight for our industry. Do I believe they are right all the time, hell no but they are doing what I'm to far away and to busy to do for myself.



Same with NADeFA I'm a member for the same reason. Will it really help Montana now, I don't think so. I'm a member to help other States keep their business.



When Montana had an association the same 15 people did the work for the 100 other people in the association. Many of these same 100 people never did help or contribute to the agenda of the association. But many of them thought they could have done it better but never did. They did do a good job of bitching. Your either part of the solution or you are the problem. Join NADeFA and contribute at least something to your industry. Maybe they will help you from being the only deer farmer in your State.

Jack

You made some good points.

At the NADeFA conference there were good intentioned people asking others to join others state associations. Their main reason for asking was to up the numbers and as we all know more numbers have more influence. I personally was ask to join two different state ass. Both I said I would donate something. In both instances the donation will be worth allot more than the state dues would be to join. But in both cases that is not helping the membership.



I over heard one person commenting is it about numbers or money. If it is truly about members and numbers, if an out of state person makes a donation. Make them a life member with no benefits.



What if all state associations thought this way, their numbers would double in the next year.