Not good news from Ohio

jerrilee cave1003961420403778



Gary,


If they cant find it in the soil, is all this crap MADE UP about it living in the soil for eons????.........to me if they cant find prions in the soil it makes their theory all the much shakier.  I my mind it makes a virus much more likely causing the prion to misfold.




If not in soil then how is it showing up in Hay and Grains?

Jerrilee,  I have heard several wildlife people keep talking about the study done in Colorado as the reasoning behind the soil contamination theory.  They state that the pen was depopulated, cleaned and bleached.  Then they state that they reintroduced elk back in the pens and they came down with positive animals.  Well, my first question would be, where would you find elk that are guaranteed negative?  They say they brought in animals from areas with no incidents of CWD.  Well we all know the % of testing they are doing, and where is there no CWD in the wild elk herds?  Since there is no live test for CWD, and the rectal test shows to be about 68% accurate, I think that blows holes in that.  Also, now that we know it can be transmitted in food sources, did they change feed suppliers, or even the source where they buy feed?  Being a government agency, I doubt it.  I am sure they used the least cost source.  Also, were the pens netted for crows or other birds?    


When you question them on this, they don't know or avoid the questions.  Our District Vet. says the test they keep quoting was unscientific and wouldn't pass any standards of any legitimate protocols.   


Jerilee, as a Vet., aren't these questions to them justified?  Do you see holes in their testing protocols?

Four Seasons Whitetails1003971420405473



If not in soil then how is it showing up in Hay and Grains?




Mike,      if I had the answer to that, I would win the Nobel prize.   One research paper I read, the researcher thought it could be transmitted by mites and other insects, such as mosquitos, and ticks.  If that is the case, it may be viral, as Jerrille said.    The problem I see is,  everyone is making rules on us with guesses.   I don't mind rules on us if science can justify it, but all these theories and guesses, along with bad science, is a joke.

G O Whitetails1003981420410390



Jerrilee,  I have heard several wildlife people keep talking about the study done in Colorado as the reasoning behind the soil contamination theory.  They state that the pen was depopulated, cleaned and bleached.  Then they state that they reintroduced elk back in the pens and they came down with positive animals.  Well, my first question would be, where would you find elk that are guaranteed negative?  They say they brought in animals from areas with no incidents of CWD.  Well we all know the % of testing they are doing, and where is there no CWD in the wild elk herds?  Since there is no live test for CWD, and the rectal test shows to be about 68% accurate, I think that blows holes in that.  Also, now that we know it can be transmitted in food sources, did they change feed suppliers, or even the source where they buy feed?  Being a government agency, I doubt it.  I am sure they used the least cost source.  Also, were the pens netted for crows or other birds?    


When you question them on this, they don't know or avoid the questions.  Our District Vet. says the test they keep quoting was unscientific and wouldn't pass any standards of any legitimate protocols.   


Jerilee, as a Vet., aren't these questions to them justified?  Do you see holes in their testing protocols?




Gary, 


   I asked these very question at one of our state meeting on the new cwd programs. How this was known since they told me there was no soil test, and no live animal test. The answer was "this is just the accepted research".

If the infection was coming in through the feed or hay it would be in the soil of the enclosure if this theory were correct. The prion would pass through the digestive system and be on the ground especially in a confined area with a high CWD infection %.

Gary,


looks like swiss cheese!!!!


 


I really do not see how anyone established can justify buying a new animal and putting in their herd.  Does that have been put in sales year after year changing farms yearly have really put this industry in a mess.  The buck fawn in PA that was positive changed hands 3-4 times!!! some things like this dont even make sense to me  

jerrilee cave1004031420418493



Gary,


looks like swiss cheese!!!!


 


I really do not see how anyone established can justify buying a new animal and putting in their herd.  Does that have been put in sales year after year changing farms yearly have really put this industry in a mess.  The buck fawn in PA that was positive changed hands 3-4 times!!! some things like this dont even make sense to me  




Well yes thats one thing but for states to only lock down one animal that may be positive and be allowed to mingle with pen mates that can be sold is asking for trouble. Auction companies should not accept consignments from any farms with locked down animals unless it is addressed at the time of sale that there could be issues in the future. 

and yet there is silence, I couldn't consciously do it  to someone else but yet sales are taking lots from these farms.  Where is our industry's accountability???? guess the bank account is all that matters to some.

zmcgill1004001420412451



Gary, 


   I asked these very question at one of our state meeting on the new cwd programs. How this was known since they told me there was no soil test, and no live animal test. The answer was "this is just the accepted research".




This "accepted research" would be laughed at if used at the CDC for human diseases.  There are to many holes in the research.

Deer MGR 200 is putting together an organization that will deal with many of these concerns legislatively, educationally, and in the courts. An announcement will be coming later this week.

Bell1004091420421065



Deer MGR 200 is putting together an organization that will deal with many of these concerns legislatively, educationally, and in the courts. An announcement will be coming later this week.




And i so cant wait..When states can have this one their websites.  How can a lawyer not eat this up and force any judge to see?


 


(40,40,40); ;margin:0pxCould reintroduced elk transmit diseases to domestic livestock and native wildlife?
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)Livestock and wildlife health is critically important to us. We are working very closely with the Missouri Department of Agriculture and State Veterinarian on stringent animal-health protocols to prevent the importation of diseased elk. Our disease protocols for elk restoration are more stringent than any existing disease protocols for livestock or privately imported elk and deer.
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)We are also working with other states that have successfully restored elk and have used what they have learned to develop our elk restoration plan that is based on research and sound science by wildlife experts.
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)According the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, no elk reintroduction program in which the RMEF has participated has resulted in spreading disease. We will be working with the RMEF on our elk restoration to southeast Missouri.
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)As is the case with all wild and domestic animals, elk can serve as hosts for a variety of diseases and parasites. The potential for disease has been minimized in other states where elk restoration has occurred by following strict health protocols and guidelines. As a result, no disease transmission from reintroduced elk to livestock or wildlife has been reported or documented.
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)Since 2000, there has been significant progress made in our understanding of chronic wasting disease (CWD), including a live-animal test for elk. Our extensive animal health protocols include testing all elk for chronic wasting disease.
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)Elk relocated into Missouri for the purposes of the elk restoration originate from a CWD-free state and from herds with a history of health surveillance and no evidence of health issues. Imported elk are tested for CWD, brucellosis, blue tongue, anaplasmosis, epizootic hemorrhagic disease, vesicular stomatitis, Johne's disease and bovine tuberculosis prior to shipment to Missouri.
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)The Missouri Department of Health and Senior Services states that there is no evidence that CWD can infect people. The Missouri Department of Agriculture states that current research shows there is no evidence that CWD can spread from infected deer or elk to livestock, such as sheep or cattle
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231) 
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231) 


(40,40,40); ;margin:0pxBe informed and get involved
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)MDC has finished its eight public meetings held around the state on Protecting Missouri’s White-tailed Deer. The Department continues to welcome comments on this issue. All comments will be considered as MDC formulates possible regulation changes related to this topic. These regulation changes will be presented to the Missouri Conservation Commission for its consideration in the near future.
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)Learn more about CWD below and then share your comments on limiting the spread of CWD and other infectious diseases at Protecting Missouri’s White-Tailed Deer below.


(40,40,40); ;margin:0pxCWD kills deer
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)Chronic wasting disease infects deer and other members of the deer family, called cervids. CWD belongs to a group of diseases known as transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) which cause degeneration of the brain in cervids. CWD is transmitted through prions, which are abnormal proteins that attack the nervous systems of these species. These prions accumulate in the brain, spinal cord, eyes, spleen, and lymph nodes of infected animals.
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)CWD is spread both directly from deer to deer and indirectly to deer from infected soil and other surfaces. Animals with signs of CWD show changes in natural behavior and can exhibit extreme weight loss, excessive salivation, stumbling, and tremors. CWD in deer can only be confirmed by laboratory tests of brain stem or lymph tissue from harvested animals.
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)The disease has no vaccine or cure. CWD is 100-percent fatal. Deer and other cervids can have CWD for several years without showing any symptoms. Once symptoms are visible, infected animals typically die within one or two months.
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)There is no scientific evidence that white-tailed deer have a genetic immunity to CWD that could be passed on to future generations.
(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)Once well established in an area, CWD is impossible to eradicate. States with CWD must focus on limiting the spread of the disease and preventing its introduction to new areas.

we have got to get the 100%  fatal thing out of people's minds.  Show me the studies that it is 100% fatal!!!!

(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)"Elk relocated into Missouri for the purposes of the elk restoration originate from a CWD-free state"


 


(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)Mike, google Kentucky elk restoration program.  They say Kentucky is a free-state, but look where their elk came from.  Look how late they have brought elk into Kentucky fro out west.  

how do we know it is 100%fatal when we kill them all??????  maybe most would live out their lives without showing any clinical signs of disease.  Look at the Brakke pic of their bucks.  80% LN positive. if an animal is sick the first thing that will fail is antler growth.  They look to me that there is no way they had lost any antler growth.  Some of the most beautiful bucks you will ever see.

Jerrilee

I agree. We will never be able to study resistance or research immunity if every positive herd is destroyed. I hope that the researchers at the NYU will consider that the buck showing resistance may have antibodies if CWD is viral.

as YOU say maybe they are STUCK ON STUPID.  If you always do your research on a "THEORY" as they have in the past,  which is not really proven, where will it get you??? How much more effective would a vaccine be if it was a virus??? TREMENDOUSLY MORE  


This whole CWD is stuck on stupid from beginning to end!!!!!  I just do not understand how something, that I would liken to a GHOST, can have so much traction.  We know no more today than we did 30 years ago about CWD.  Why??? because we KILL them all.  Its hard to do research on the dead.

G O Whitetails1004161420429023



(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)"Elk relocated into Missouri for the purposes of the elk restoration originate from a CWD-free state"


 


(56,56,54); ;15px;background-(243,240,231)Mike, google Kentucky elk restoration program.  They say Kentucky is a free-state, but look where their elk came from.  Look how late they have brought elk into Kentucky fro out west.  




Yes they dont make that public.What they do make public is that THEY have a test that the state says is good enough for THEIR animals but the states farmers animals have to be DEAD. Now if a lawyer cant run with that????