QDMA. Talkin smack about the deer farming Industry.

The Australian Deer Association has nothing to do with deer breeding or high fence.Its about hunting wild deer.I've never herd of "the National Conservation Award" ether.

The Deer Industry Association of Australia is the farming,breeding group & I'm not aware of any connection with Brian or QDMA.



Brian finished his PhD down here on fallow in Tassie.He did a great job & has many friends.The QDMA was started with a $5000 loan from the Australian Deer Reasearch Foundation,which it repayed in 12 months.



Everyone is watching this closely from various parts of the world,because no doubt this disease will show up elsewhere,so play this with a straight bat please.



The concern is that Brian is pushing ethics ahead of science.My thoughts are he should be concentrating on risk & abatement action,not sensationalising the issue with emotional retoric or vilifying an important stake holder.Both sides of this fence are going to have to take a co operative aproach to control this disease.If not the deer will be the loosers,then the hunters,only PETA will win.



Fight a good fight.

Sharkey

PRWhitetails said:

I believe "sharkey" said that the Australian Deer association did not deal with deer breeding. Also, In my opinion working in a deer research facility at a university is something most "deer biologists" due at some point in their collegiate career if their universities have a research facility. They are working there for research purposes, in most cases not for the breeding industry. I am equally as fustrated with the QDMA and my family has dropped all our support. However, we need to fight legitamate battles, stick to the facts and let all the good that we do as an industry be known. We have the facts and we are right! What the breeding industry and hunting ranch industry do are great, great things, and a lot of the QDMA membership (some now former members) don't have any issues with the deer behind the fence. However, their leaders have taken an ideological stance against a good thing...and I believe they're going to lose a lot of support. I mean this with all do respect, but lets not get caught up in misinformation.







Jarrid Barry,

Operations Manager

Powder Ridge Whitetails717-821-0669

[email protected]

Click to expand...

So let me get this right. If this guy was indeed the one to pull the trigger on this whole deal you in sorts want to protect him in some way. If this fella did research on captive whitetail deer while in school of something and now he wants to pull the plug on deer farms. Now do you think he is thinking of future students that will be coming up behind him??? Do you think he has a problem with deer farms and high fence hunting but he will be ok with deer behind a fence somewhere at a learning facility??? Im not sure on all this but i believe anyone that has anything to do with the demise of what we love and have the right to do should be in our sights and dealt with in any way needed. Do you think any of his backers or qdm members know that he got alot of his learning from high fence deer. I am with yas about not jumping to hard but i believe this guy might be playing the field at our expense.

I in no way want to protect or stick up for this guy.! I guess I'm playing devils advocate and believe there are better issues at hand to use in this fight. I honestly think he would not have a problem with deer behind fence at universities for research purposes. It is us the commercial deer breeder and hunting ranch industry he is after...I left you a message mike, feel free to call me anytime I agree with a lot of what you said...



Jarrid Barry

Powder Ridge Whitetails

717-821-0669

Four Seasons Whitetails said:

Do you think any of his backers or qdm members know that he got alot of his learning from high fence deer.

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Yes, they do. They have determined in their own little world that research facilties are different than "for-profit" deer farms. Add to that the fact that the research facilities generally do not transport deer, and you have a perfect fantasy world to live in. He is playing the field, it's just a question of how good a player he is.

That site is something else over there. If you go on there and look ,The mods will make a post that they want the members to see and then they lock it so someone cant go on and say the truth. One post says they lost no sponsors,purina,cargil, none of them. They also say their memberships have gone up. Then it gets locked!!!

As far as research facilities, and 'captive' deer, that is pretty much the source of CWD.



Watch how they carefully use the term captive wildlife to infer, deer farm.



A few important things to remember when it comes to CWD. It was first identified and possibly created at research facilities near Fort Collins Colorado (captive wildlife). I find it very interesting that there are only about 7 federal wildlife research facilities in the USA, and that later the next major epicenter of CWD was near one of the other federal wildlife research centers. That being near Mount Horeb, Wisconsin, but according to the 'experts' this is just a coincidence.



Yes live animal movement was responsible for the movement of CWD to western Colorado. Animal movements of 'captive wildlife', namely elk from the 'pens' at Fort Collins to three smaller research facilities in western Colorado, did introduce the disease to that area. Some of the animals from the Fort Collins were even released into the wild for short term grazing studies. These same animals were also comingled with 'penned' wild elk, which were later released to the wild. Some of the elk that came from the Fort Collins facility later died and were supected to have had CWD. At another location in western Colorado, an elk farm was created and manned by federal agents as part of a sting operation. Records are not available as to the source of the elk for that farm, and given the price of elk at thast time, some may have come from the Fort Collins facility. CWD was later identified within a couple of miles of that 'captive wildlife facility. Escapes from that facility can be documented by conversations between the frederal agents and Colorado elk breeder. So yes, the movement of live cervids has contributed to the spread of CWD.



If we look at CWD in NY and MI, movement of dead animal parts from CWD endemic areas is the most likely culprit. But little or no effort is put into education of hunters or taxidermists of this possible risk.



There is so much more to say in this story, but personally I believe that centering the blame for CWD on deer and elk farmers, was focused attempt to remove attention from the errors of the state and federal agencies.



There is so much more to say, but it is getting rather later.





Ray Favero, PhD

Jeff23 said:

we only make ourselves look like idiots if we act like idiots.

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Precisely. And, if there is hypocrisy or ulterior motive that can be proven then that needs to come to light, just be sure it's backed up, no false accusations, let that be their forte. True to that this won't be a flash in the pan, it never was- what is needed is huge, constant education and disproof of the false claims.

I found this to be kinda funny.. Seems they play on both sides of the fence for some.





We are proud to announce the Spring 2012 Educational Seminar!!



Our feature speaker this year will be Don Higgins. He is an expert in developing properties to hold mature bucks and developing hunting strategies to harvest them. You wont want to miss his presentation about sanctuary creation and how to read the deer for proper stand locations and how to access them properly.



Who: Don Higgins

Where: Crowne Plaza Airport Hotel

When: March 10th 9am-12pm



Subjects that Don will cover:

• Treestand placement with detailed notes on approach routes, time of season to hunt, etc

• Elevated Hunting Blind placement

• Foodplot placement, creation and planting

• Warm Season Native Grass plantings (specifically designed for whitetails)

• Tree plantings

• Shrub plantings

• Timber Stand Improvement

• Water Hole construction

• Sanctuary designation and creation

I want to personally thank Shawn Schafer of NaDEFA. He has agreed to be interviewed for a webcast for the Alabama Land Owners Association to be aired on March 28th. They will also interview QDMA on their stance. From land owners this is a property rights issue.



Thank You Shawn Schafer!

It seems now there is some info on their site thay shows where the ceo of qdm hunts behind fences and even sold a high fence hunt at an auction to raise mony for qdm. Now they have a deer farmer as a speaker??? Talk about playing both sides of the fence!!!

Yeah if they respect Don and aparently they do as they have asked him to speak.....I respect Don myself.......but again if they respect him maybe they should have asked him his opinion about deer farming and the negative effects it has on the wild deer. Obviously if Don thought it was a threat he wouldn't raise deer.........maybe he will have a chance to explain this when he speaks!!

Post found on QDMA forum

Now that we have beaten this deer farm issue to death..

and really came down hard on some of the deer farms, have we really looked in the mirror?



Are we doing what is best for the health of the herd?



Are we keeping deer numbers well below the numbers that the habitat can support?



Are we concentrating deer to a small location by the use of feeders, minerals, tiny foodplots, a small patch of apple trees, or a single water hole?



Are we sure of the safety of the deer feed that is used in our feeders-are there animal source proteins or fats in it that we should worry about?



Do we hunt in CWD or TB areas and properly dispose of bones/waste?



Do we encourage other hunters in our party that hunt infected areas to do the same?



Is disease getting close enough that we should change our management?



Could our buck/doe ratios be a risk factor? Could the age of the deer in the herd be a risk factor?



Here is one I have been thinking about. What if you eat some sausage from an infected deer within 24 or 36 hours of hunting within a disease free area. Cooking does not stop CWD prions from acting. Could the prions pass through us and infect a new area?



Just some things to think about. It is not all the deer farms, it is what we have tried to do in the name of management and we all need to consider what is really necessary and truly for the health of the herd.



It took me about twenty years to realize that Bigger antlers does not always mean healthier deer!

__________________

Healthy Habitat, Healthy Deer, Less Antler Obsession-All for the Sake of our Hunting Tradition!



This post was by a Qdma person on there forum, it is one of the few that acknowledges the responsibility may at least be shared by all.

__________________

http://www.qdma.com/who-we-are/staffboard/



Above is a list of senior advisors. Please note that Chris Asplundh is also on the members list of the Pennsylvania Deer Farmers. See below. I guess we have a fox in the hen house. LMAO



http://www.padfa.com/MEMBERS_name.htm

Mike Kerry,

Now that you have called me out on at least 2 different websites, I will respond here on this one where you are likely to have the most support.



To begin, you have absolutely no idea what I personally may have done or are doing to address this issue. You dont even know where I stand on it. You also have no idea of the doors I have open for me with numerous folks within the hunting industry to make my concerns known on a number of issues which I feel strongly about. As you have found, acting like a total idiot on an organizations website message board doesnt open too many doors. Apparently you are upset with me for not joining you in your childish tirades. I'll tell you what Mike, if you dont like the way I personally represent deer farmers (and there is no way that you can even know how I represent deer farmers), then why dont you buy out my entire herd and I will leave this industry in your capable hands?



One more thing Mike; where were you and where were your internet posts when fellow deer farmers worked to close the state borders in their home states to secure markets for themselves while eliminating those potential markets for their bretheren? Thats right Mike, you are all over the internet making ignorant posts because QDMA wants to do something that some deer farmers themselves have already done. Can you say "hypocrite" Mike? Thats right Mike, since you are so concerned about this industry and what other deer farmers (me) are doing, why dont you reach deep down in your panties and see if you got what it takes to call out those within this industry who have already been successful at getting state borders closed? Why dont you start a new thread here on this site and call out NADEFA for not sending out an email alert when a deer farmer worked to close a state border? If you want to fight the good fight for this industry Mike, why dont you start by taking on the internal issues and leave the external ones to those that have more than internet message board cheap shots to work with.



Don Higgins



PS- this will be my only post on this thread. I dont have the time nor desire to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

By all means don,Dont leave the table. First of all there was never one word on any of my post that degraded you in any way. Second of all any post i put anywhere was to get some kind of explanation of how a program like qdma would want to shut down deer farms. Including yourself don!!! Do you really think this crap is about cwd?? I highly doubt it and it has been proven over and over to them. First they say they have no problem with deer taken behind high fence and then their next words are its unacceptable when its not fair chase. They are trying to get deer farmers out of the picture because we have a product that is looking much better to the general hunting public every year and the top qdma boys are losing a little more cash in there pockets every year. If you want to support something that is trying to take away something that we love to do thats totally up to you. I really dont care and i know many more that will tell you the same thing. If you want to call m out on something i stand for and believe in then have at it. I have not had deer for long but i plan on hving them for awhile.If i was around when all the border stuff was going on then i would have gave my opinion.I am only one and the strength are in numbers. Don you have had deer for probably longer than i have been alive so mabey you are ready to take your fence down and do something else with your time but there are many young guys like myself that plan on being here for awhile. If it takes a fight with a group like qdma then im sure nadefa and every other state organization will put the gloves on. Those people on qdma do not like to hear the truth when it comes to the deer farmers side of the story so they put false posts on their site and then lock them up so they get no replies from anyone that might be in the know. They have board members that hunt behind high fence and then they say its unacceptable.They go as far as have high fence hunts donated to their fundraisers and then turn around and dis the high fence ranch owners. From what i understand they even have higher ups that own high fence operations. So i ask you don how does that work?? If i made a total idiot of myself on any post by telling the truth that some dont want to hear by all means bring them out.I dont believe anyone has seen where you stand on this issue because you have never been asked to. From what i posted and read people deer farmers thought it was a good thing that you were speaking for them. I wont go as far as replies on your panty coment as that is not what im about. But by all means dont leave the table and please fill us all in on the qdma double standards and their ploy to put a stop of any growth of the deer farming industry that a few of us still love and there ploy to stop deer farming for all states forever!!

Four Seasons Whitetails said:

I found this to be kinda funny.. Seems they play on both sides of the fence for some.





We are proud to announce the Spring 2012 Educational Seminar!!



Our feature speaker this year will be Don Higgins. He is an expert in developing properties to hold mature bucks and developing hunting strategies to harvest them. You wont want to miss his presentation about sanctuary creation and how to read the deer for proper stand locations and how to access them properly.



Who: Don Higgins

Where: Crowne Plaza Airport Hotel

When: March 10th 9am-12pm



Subjects that Don will cover:

• Treestand placement with detailed notes on approach routes, time of season to hunt, etc

• Elevated Hunting Blind placement

• Foodplot placement, creation and planting

• Warm Season Native Grass plantings (specifically designed for whitetails)

• Tree plantings

• Shrub plantings

• Timber Stand Improvement

• Water Hole construction

• Sanctuary designation and creation

Click to expand...

Does this look like I am calling someone out coping a post that came off from QDMA website? Looks like public knowledge to me.

Mike it was your post under the thread titled "the QDMA issue" . I can see where that post made Don Angry. Not taking sides but I think we need to watch what we post...and not let are emotions speak.....never a good thing.......

mike I went back and reread your post.....I can see where you may have wrote what you did not meaning to slam Don......but unfortunately I can see where it sounds like you were trying to slam him.......sometimes things can be read the wrong way and this might just be one of those times. hope you guys can work this out.

Den there is nothing to work out. I no way meant to slam him in any way,shape or form. As he said i dont know where he stands on this because it was never asked of him.My post was aimed at qdma alone on their double standard tatics.If it was taken in the wrong way,well im sorry for that but i am not sorry for standing up to qdma for the lies and bull they are splewing about what we as deer farmers are and what we stand for. A few on here know the deal and the ones that dont might want to take a peek into the doings of qdma because every one of us and our deer have something to lose in this!!!!

Don H said:

To begin, you have absolutely no idea what I personally may have done or are doing to address this issue. You dont even know where I stand on it. You also have no idea of the doors I have open for me with numerous folks within the hunting industry to make my concerns known on a number of issues which I feel strongly about. As you have found, acting like a total idiot on an organizations website message board doesnt open too many doors. Apparently you are upset with me for not joining you in your childish tirades. I'll tell you what , if you dont like the way I personally represent deer farmers (and there is no way that you can even know how I represent deer farmers), then why dont you buy out my entire herd and I will leave this industry in your capable hands?

Click to expand...

Don H



Well said.

Cool heads,balance & compromise will be needed.



Seems you are well placed to focus back on the disease & effective measures & not the ethical argument which seems to prevail currently.



Would stating your own position publicly on these issues damage or help your ability to negotiate/mediate with both sides?



Sorry to make you the meat in the sandwich,but as I've been watching this unfold on these forums,your the only "leader" with respect from both sides I see displaying some balance.



Stay staunch

Sharkey