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Rompam without reversal?????? sound nuts?

L

Lanasvet

Joined Aug 2010
517 Posts | 0+
Illinois
Hi all,

Please, would you guys chime in (freely) on what your opinion is on sedating a Yearling Buck with only Rompam (I know I know this is not smart), for purposes of jaw surgery, and then NOT reversing him after the entire ordeal. He has been down (on his side! not recumbant) for over 6 hrs now... He is covered with a blanket (it is about 40F in IL right now).

WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE PROPER PROCESS OF DOING THIS?

I know already that this could be a controversial topic- please don't argue with one another, ok? I already know that the ideal way to sedate a deer is by using a cocktail of Telazol and Xylezene (sp?) right?

WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE/DISADVANTAGE TO NOT REVERSING AN ANIMAL?
 
Dig a hole, I think you will be needing it. Having said that, there are countless threads discussing the pros and cons of using straight xylazine and the risks associated with not using an antagonist. To discuss the "proper process" now is non-productive. Give the buck several warm water (105 deg F) inemas to help maintain his core temperature and administer IV 1cc of Tolazine/55lbs weight immediately.
 
I will convey your professional advice to the geniuses... Thank you very much, Scott.
 
Scott tell me if I'm close.... the people with the most correct answers have learned the most from their mistakes.
 
The only thing I would have done different is I would have gave him some reverser. The reason I say this is not all deer need telazol some go completely out with out it but you do need to reverse them to get them up and goin as fast as you can. I know many who use straight xylozine some vets included all depends on the deer.
 
Why do you need to get them up again as soon as possible?

So they don't aspirate their rumen/stomach acids? saliva?

So their body temperature goes back to normal as soon as possible?

So their pulse doesn't fall too low?



Can someone tell me why please?

btw/ I have conveyed what Scott advised and these guys just seem to only follow the directions of their dog/cat DVMs... I will reserve my comments about their ineptitude from this forum.
 
Thats to bad....For the deer....as sooner or later they are going to start killing deer. They might...they might not but sooner or later i think they will either while they are under or later from pneumonia!!! Show them these posts from some of the guys that have been treating deer for years... It might sway them to listen!!!! Mabey!!
 
Lanasvet,

The best thing they can do if they dont want to take anyone's advice is take a safe capture course.....this will save them a lot of dead deer in their future.
 
Why wouild anyone use straight xylazine when performing surgery, especially surgery on the mouth or jaw? Surgery is both painful and very stressful on deer. You have to use a plane of anestesia deeper than can be produced by xylazine alone. Telazol will deepen the plane satisfactorily, but a topping with ketamine is preferred for this type of surgery. If your geniuses didn't know enough to ask a vet with experience for his/her advise, then they probably do not possess the skills or credentials to use the telazol and ketamine. And yes Curtis...........the people with the most correct answers have learned the most from their mistakes.



Lana, did the deer survive the anesthetic? If so it needs to be monitoried closley for myopathy for a week or so.
 
The sad thing is, that the geniuses were taking instruction from their vet friend when they knocked the buck down. They then transported him to the surgery site where the vets administered more of the xylazine, and apparently some other drug (the name of which remains unknown to me and them), then they allowed the buck to come out of it on his own. He did so about 9-10 hrs later and was wobbling around at around 9:30 p.m. I didn't have the heart to watch the entire ordeal so I left immediately after the buck was returned from surgery (at around 1 p.m.).



Yes, the buck is alive, and apparently doing OK, but who knows what his underlying condition is. I will go see him this afternoon and will let the geniuses know to watch for the CM or myopathy. I am not sure what his breathing is like or his stool, but I'm guessing he will be affected by the stress of everything he has been through. He is otherwise a very tame, bottle-fed buck (yes, you heard me right).



I will research the signs of myopathy now so as not to trouble you further.

Thank you Mr. Heinrich.
 
Here are a few good articles on Capture Myopathy for anyone who might be interested:



http://www.fourthcrossingwildlife.com/CaptureMyopathy-AnneFowler.pdf



http://www.diaa.org/FACTSHEETS/Health/13-Capture_Myopathy.pdf



http://www.larounds.ca/crus/lavcdne_10_01.pdf



and this one is a published white paper on the topic of: Treatment of hypoxemia during xylazine-tiletaminezolazepam immobilization of wapiti

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1476651/pdf/canvetj00011-0035.pdf

(I am sure that there are many more relevant articles, but I seem to recall a deer farmer from Australia, Sharkey, mentioning the difficulty of treating Wapiti deer).



Here's another one that might be of interest re methods of immobilization of WTD: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1189583/?tool=pmcentrez
 
the bad thing is a lot of the vet's out there will tell you that straight xylazine is all that you need, and they are wrong. Or at least that is what my local vet's kept telling me. Xylazine is easy for anyone to buy and a lot of people out there think that's just all that you need to use. The other drug's can be a bit tough to buy at time's for some farm's even though they need to use them with the Xylazine they just dont do it. I know I will never put another animal down with straight Xylazine, I do not like to use the heavy dose that it take's to put some animal's down.



And then to do it without reverser, no way.
 
I would vote for Scott even if he were a Republican, let's just put it in real terms... I read that the only known real treatment for Capture Myopathy is the "A" drug in BAM. THat A drug apparently has some nice affects on stressed out and aggressive deer . . .
 
I had to, he's from my neck of the woods Dennis, ol' deer buddy, ol' deer pal... He's a good man, smart man, has a healthy, happy family, and was a well-liked professor of law at my university. I respect him, and the tough choices he's had to make. He also doesn't play into the blame game on a constant basis, and accepts responsibility for his actions. Oh and by the way, did I mention that his wife grew up in my old neighborhood, and still made it to Harvard based on her merits, not her daddy's?!?!
 

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