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Predator3 said:
Paul, the 3% rule no longer applys there was a rule change.
Help Support Deer Farmer Forum:
Paul, the 3% rule no longer applys there was a rule change.
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Sam,
go to the B&C web site and print off a B&C typical score sheet. It has a place where you enter the abnormal points but you niether add them in or subtract them.
You have 4 columns. Column 1 is spread credit. Column 2 right antler. Column 3 left antler and column 4 difference
you add columns 1-3 and subtract column 4
never do you add or subtract the abnormal points.
If anyone can find other wise please post a link.
go to the B&C web site and print off a B&C typical score sheet. It has a place where you enter the abnormal points but you niether add them in or subtract them.
You have 4 columns. Column 1 is spread credit. Column 2 right antler. Column 3 left antler and column 4 difference
you add columns 1-3 and subtract column 4
never do you add or subtract the abnormal points.
If anyone can find other wise please post a link.
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SJames said:
B&C Net typical sould be. 295 2/8 minus 32 4/8 (side to side differences) = 262 6/8
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Its E. The total length of all abnormal points. They don't give you room for very many on the typical sheet. You are suppose to total them in the upper right and then subtract them as a "difference".
I did make a mistake on the math. Hardcore should have netted out at 196 5/8
Sorry
I did make a mistake on the math. Hardcore should have netted out at 196 5/8
Sorry
Predator3 said:One more thing on the scoring systems. Buckmasters, Pope&Young and B&C all score exactly the same way with the exception that Buckmasters does not count inside spread. The only thing with SCI is that on a non typical there is a lot more room for judgement call. The rest of them are cut and dry. Recently at our SCI class we scored some non typical antlers about four different sets. Each time we broke into groups we never had two groups which came up with the same scores. (Sam and Darren just to let you know our group was right).
and therein lies the problem.
By the way, I do believe that SCI is the only system to use on captive deer.
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Everyone just needs to believe that the Net Typical Boone and Crocket SHOULD NOT be used for a measring stick for our deer (Unless you are breeding for it). It can be used to measure how clean and even a big typical is (A discussion that we had a while back). When talking about OUR deer, the SCI Non-Typical and SCI Typical are fairly good measurements.
To say Hardcore is 361 3/8 Gross and 295 2/8 Typical is enough to impress me! It also gives me an idea of what he has on his head. If you throw in the Inside Spread of 26 and the beam length of 32,32 and tines over 14 and I'M ALL IN!
Maybe I should go another direction and say, "If the Hansen buck was measured using SCI, we have him smoked by many, many deer"
To say Hardcore is 361 3/8 Gross and 295 2/8 Typical is enough to impress me! It also gives me an idea of what he has on his head. If you throw in the Inside Spread of 26 and the beam length of 32,32 and tines over 14 and I'M ALL IN!
Maybe I should go another direction and say, "If the Hansen buck was measured using SCI, we have him smoked by many, many deer"
Sam- Thanks for all your work on that! I still don't understand it to be honest.... I come up with the same as roughcountry 262. Even with your figures, I guess it isn't so bad when you can deduct THAT MANY inches and still be left with 196 5/8 Net Typical B&C.
I've been at meetings where B&C reps have degraded our industry and wanted us 'out of business' and went on and on about how ashamed they were of what we do. Sorry, that is off topic here.
Nonetheless.... we advertise SCI so he is 361 3/8 GROSS SCI and 295 2/8 TYPICAL SCI. I hope that a lot of you are able to stop at the Cougar Ridge booth at upcoming events to see his antlers in person! I watched him all year and thought he was pretty big, but I was totally shocked when he was on the table to draw semen.... never saw anything like it!
So, I am off to bed with the swine flu in hopes that I have enough strength to help with AIing tonight :-(
I've been at meetings where B&C reps have degraded our industry and wanted us 'out of business' and went on and on about how ashamed they were of what we do. Sorry, that is off topic here.
Nonetheless.... we advertise SCI so he is 361 3/8 GROSS SCI and 295 2/8 TYPICAL SCI. I hope that a lot of you are able to stop at the Cougar Ridge booth at upcoming events to see his antlers in person! I watched him all year and thought he was pretty big, but I was totally shocked when he was on the table to draw semen.... never saw anything like it!
So, I am off to bed with the swine flu in hopes that I have enough strength to help with AIing tonight :-(
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Holly - The way I understand B/C, is that the 262'' you are referring to would be the net typical score if there were no non-typical points to deduct, which in Hardcore's case there are 66 1/8 that would have to be deducted. Taking the 66'' away from the 262'' is where the 196'' net B/C comes into play. Hope that helps explain where the 196'' comes from. There is no better example than Hardcore as to why we don't use the B/C scoring system for our deer. This, and the way they view our industry.
In my opinion you are 100% correct in the way you are advertising Hardcore's scores. I'm with Sam in that, when I look at a deer and his score, I want to know the total gross score and what he has for a Typical frame, along with the spread and the mainbeam measurements. When it comes to Hardcore, I'm also ALL IN!
In my opinion you are 100% correct in the way you are advertising Hardcore's scores. I'm with Sam in that, when I look at a deer and his score, I want to know the total gross score and what he has for a Typical frame, along with the spread and the mainbeam measurements. When it comes to Hardcore, I'm also ALL IN!
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Dave and Holly, great job with Hardcore, we just AI'ed on Tuesday and Hardcore was one of our sires, all does looked good and are still looking good a couple days later..... Looking forward to these hardcore fawns.
A side note one of the does we bred Hardcore to was a Maxbo Ranger daughter out of a Maxbo/Maverick-Bucky doe, what do you think of this breeding, too tight, I hope not and personally i dont think so, but nice to get input, she was also womb sister to his largest and prettiest yearling this year. Thanks
A side note one of the does we bred Hardcore to was a Maxbo Ranger daughter out of a Maxbo/Maverick-Bucky doe, what do you think of this breeding, too tight, I hope not and personally i dont think so, but nice to get input, she was also womb sister to his largest and prettiest yearling this year. Thanks
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Steve, I think what you may be doing is simply deducting the side to side differences and the nontypical points from Hardcore's 361 3/8 Sci non-typical score. If that is the case you can't do it that way because you would be adding the non-typical points to the score and then deducting them later. In essence making the non-typical points a wash rather than a deduction.
Does the way I explained that make any sense to anyone but me? I'm certainly no official B/C scorer but I have been around that scoring system for a few years now.
Does the way I explained that make any sense to anyone but me? I'm certainly no official B/C scorer but I have been around that scoring system for a few years now.
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I really hope that anyone reading just these last few post will go back and read this entire discussion. It may appear that we are arguing about Hardcore's score but that is not the case at all (for me at least). We have been discussing what Hardcore would score as a net Boone and Crocket Typical and how that scoring system does not work for the Deer Breeding industry. I don't want my last few post misinterpreted by anyone.
That doeny sound right. So they Penalize a deer for non typical? So some of these hugh non typical deer could end up with a negative typical score?
Let's say a deer scores 415". Its got 215 typical frame. With 175" of non typical and 40" of side to side difference. Does that make him -5" typical
215gross typical - 175non typical - 40side to side difference = -5net typical.
Did I do something wrong?
Let's say a deer scores 415". Its got 215 typical frame. With 175" of non typical and 40" of side to side difference. Does that make him -5" typical
215gross typical - 175non typical - 40side to side difference = -5net typical.
Did I do something wrong?
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I decided to go to the B&S website to see if I could find some clarification on scoring and look what I found.
Anyone in the deer biz that would even udder the words B&S (b&c) should be ashamed of themselves.
Read what those arrogant cracker heads say on their site.
This isn't about what scoring system we think is best, this is about the industries very survival. Just talking about B&S gives them more recognition and power. I now will go out of my way to talk about SCI more with hunters and show them the benefits of a quality org that supports everyone and not just those high and mighty elitists at B&S. For God's sake people support those who support you. SCI. The end.
http://www.boone-crockett.com/huntingEthics/ethics_cannedshoot.asp?area=huntingEthics
Anyone in the deer biz that would even udder the words B&S (b&c) should be ashamed of themselves.
Read what those arrogant cracker heads say on their site.
This isn't about what scoring system we think is best, this is about the industries very survival. Just talking about B&S gives them more recognition and power. I now will go out of my way to talk about SCI more with hunters and show them the benefits of a quality org that supports everyone and not just those high and mighty elitists at B&S. For God's sake people support those who support you. SCI. The end.
http://www.boone-crockett.com/huntingEthics/ethics_cannedshoot.asp?area=huntingEthics
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Everybody, this thread was not to bash or support any particular scoring system, but to see if we have raised a typical that will beat Milo Hanson's world record nothing more. We all know that SCI is the only system that supports us! There is no question that Harcore's SCI typical score blows away the Hanson buck, and in my opinion is the best looking whitetail I have ever seen. This thread has also shown me that considering were in the antler growing business. We owe it to our clients, fellow deer farmers and your self to know how to correctly score our deer. Please if you are not sure take an SCI class.
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