letemgrow
Sent you a private message please feel free to give me a call any time if you have any questions
Sent you a private message please feel free to give me a call any time if you have any questions
C'mon Missouri!!!
- Thread starter rocky cedar whitetails
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Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
letemgrow said:My big concern is contact between wild/game farm deer. Is that being solved now where they cannot come in contact with each other?
Hear lots of stories (you know how stories go) about game farms where deer walk in and out through bad fences. I think those are most the concerns hunters have with penned deer.
Would stand to reason no deer farm would want CWD or any other type disease in there...especially contracting a disease from wild deer to hurt their bottom line. I know the pens I saw while driving to college had a single fence and wild deer could go right up to the tame ones. This pen for instance, was very little for the # of deer, sure was neat seeing giant bucks tho next to the road.
You keep talking with an open mind over here on this site and your buddies over on the QDMA site may throw you to the buzzards. I have to give you credit...To bad you cant get guys like Singleterry to use an open mind and accept CWD for what it is and what its shown and not go by just what a bunch of white coats say that were not even close to the truth.
It will come to light someday soon!
letemgrow, "deer going in and out of fences", I have breeding does I have paid $7,000 for and more, and breeding bucks I have paid over $30,000 for, do think I want them leaving my property? I don't want my deer in contact with the wild deer. I know what I have, they don't !!
Four Seasons Whitetails said:
Working together really is the only way to get this done taking a common sense approach and studying the who, what, when, where and how. Its already here so blaming one side is not going to address the issue. Maybe it will never be a real issue, maybe it will be a big one in the future. No one has the golden egg on this from what I can tell.
Stats can be skewed to help one side or the other.
What are all the infection routes that are known at this point? I mean is it futile to try to keep game farm deer away from wild deer?
Least it seems that was the case in MO involving the game farm. Whether a wild deer had it and gave it to the game farm or vice versa is not really the issue IMO. It is there now for both sides and they only found it in wild deer 2 miles from the ranch. I'd just like to know possible routes on how the prions could have got there to begin with and likely avenues for future infections.
A 1.5 year old buck gets out and then goes into dispersal mode 8-30 miles from there and its out of the quarantine area that fast so once its there, there is no getting it back looks like.
G O Whitetails said:
There are great deer farmers and some bad ones I am sure just like anything. The bad ones give everyone else a bad name.
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
letemgrow said:
If you read Terrys post you can see where they have shown it can be in bird crap and in yote crap so there are many ways, so they say!
I like how some in Mo say it could not have came in from the bordering states. How can Ill have it in the wild and not in pens? How did it get there? How is it in Iowa in a 10 year closed tested herd? How can anyone that knows anything about this stuff say it could not have walked, flew or was carried in by a hunter into that state? They Cant? Just as it was 99.9% shown how it was brought into a taxidermist in our state 8 years ago by a hunter killed animal from out west. And never has another case shown up.
Pen or wild!
Something you don't understand about prion diseases. It has been proven in both cattle and sheep to occur spontaneously. Most researchers I have talked to, feel it will also happen in deer. Dr. Prusnier [won the nobel prize on prions research in 1997], predicted that 1 animal/1 million would get it. The prion is a mutated protein, so it makes sense.
That number I saw was proven to hold true in England, where 10 cattle showed up positive out of 10 million slaughtered in 2010.
If Missouri has 1.4 million deer in the wild, then there would be 1.4 cases popping up in the wild herd every year. Whether there is deer farms or not, this will continue.
That number I saw was proven to hold true in England, where 10 cattle showed up positive out of 10 million slaughtered in 2010.
If Missouri has 1.4 million deer in the wild, then there would be 1.4 cases popping up in the wild herd every year. Whether there is deer farms or not, this will continue.
G O Whitetails said:
Very interesting, makes sense on how it showed up out of nowhere and they just happened to catch it that one time in CO.
Guess the question is...are we doing anything to increase the %'s outside what the natural mutations are doing? Like feeding animal proteins, high densities in the wild and pen, ag practices? etc etc.
Joined Aug 2012
303 Posts | 0+
Billings, MO
Here is a question? I have read and heard that cwd takes 36 months to affect a deer. Is this truth? If so, will the cwd test read as a positive before this time frame? The reason I ask is our conservation agent told me he did a study on the deer checked in at a check station years ago. Over 95% of the deer where under 18 months of age. If the test does not show as a positive for 36 months and 95% of the deer tested from the wild are under 18 months, it would be rare that a positive case would show in the wild. Just curious.
Show Me Racks said:
Almost impossible to detect under that given scenario sounds like. They are testing/wanting mature bucks now to test since they contract at higher rates, or at least show CWD more often than an 18 month old buck per say.
I guess that is not entirely correct, a 18 month old deer can test positive, but not show any symptoms of CWD...per a MDC contact I spoke with.
"They can have CWD for years without showing symptoms and don't need to show symptoms to test positive. they can appear healthy but have the disease. To my knowlege the positives from MO have all seemed healthy."
A researcher told me that a deer would be dead at 33 months [+ or - 2 months], once it contracts the disease. At our restrictions of not moving deer over state lines if you weren't from a certified herd [60 month of testing] provides the necessary protection.
Brad, Yes the CWD test will read positive before the 36 months. Especially if they test the lymph nodes, which shows the, infection, not the disease. in Minnesota I believe I read that 79% of yearling bucks die the first year from hunting. You are correct about the ages, most deer are dead before they ever get to the age of being a carrier or even a shedder.
USDA doesn't even know that if the lymph node positive animals can shed prions.
On page 47 of the new "standards document" , it states "it is assumed that animals may shed prions into the environment before the onset of clinical disease".
Your correct that most wild deer don't live long enough, that's the difference in our farmed deer. We have breeding does and bucks that easily live to 10 years and beyond.
Brad, Yes the CWD test will read positive before the 36 months. Especially if they test the lymph nodes, which shows the, infection, not the disease. in Minnesota I believe I read that 79% of yearling bucks die the first year from hunting. You are correct about the ages, most deer are dead before they ever get to the age of being a carrier or even a shedder.
USDA doesn't even know that if the lymph node positive animals can shed prions.
On page 47 of the new "standards document" , it states "it is assumed that animals may shed prions into the environment before the onset of clinical disease".
Your correct that most wild deer don't live long enough, that's the difference in our farmed deer. We have breeding does and bucks that easily live to 10 years and beyond.
Joined Jan 2011
508 Posts | 0+
Lentner, MO
Just my opinion: I thought the meeting went OK for our industry. MDC continued their message that CWD was 100% fatal to deer and that unless their plan to control the spread of the disease was followed that all free ranging deer in the state were at risk.
Basically the same old "let's scare the crap out of landowners and deer hunters approach".
Several deer farmers spoke and did a good job representing us all.
My opinion again: MDC is pushing hard because they feel the pressure of the pending outcome of the Brakke case and the pending legislation introduced here in Missouri to move the regulation of captive cervids 100% to the Dept. Of Ag. When Brakke's win their case MDC's position is weakened. When our legislation passes they are done.
They are doing as much damage as they can as fast as they can do it before either one of these come to pass.
Thanks.
Basically the same old "let's scare the crap out of landowners and deer hunters approach".
Several deer farmers spoke and did a good job representing us all.
My opinion again: MDC is pushing hard because they feel the pressure of the pending outcome of the Brakke case and the pending legislation introduced here in Missouri to move the regulation of captive cervids 100% to the Dept. Of Ag. When Brakke's win their case MDC's position is weakened. When our legislation passes they are done.
They are doing as much damage as they can as fast as they can do it before either one of these come to pass.
Thanks.
Thanks to Sam James, Wayne Scott, and everyone else (I'm not much of a name guy) for standing up and helping for our cause. I thought it was brutal for farmers.
BMAYES said:
Excellent, the next is tomorrow the 5th in Kirkwood, Missouri....What we can hope for is the chance that some people who came to the meeting left with a different perspective...
Joined Apr 2009
1,130 Posts | 0+
Columbia, MO
The next meeting is in Kirkwood not Kirksville
As I attend these meetings it becomes more apparent how little the public knows about what the current regulations are and how much we have worked extensively with the Department of Agriculture in the last 10 years to minimize risk and ensure the health of our herds.
The Conservation Departments main strategy seems to be to hide that fact and convince the public that we are a threat.
If you are a deer farmer or just a deer hunter who is interested in whats right and tired of watching the government trample over all our rights you should come to one of these meetings and give your opinion.
Here is the remaining schedule. We also have a CWD legislative committee meeting next Monday on the 10th at the Capital at 1:00 pm.
. Sept. 5, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Powder Valley Nature Center, 11715 Cragwold Road, Kirkwood
· Sept. 16, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., West Plains Civic Center, 110 St. Louis St., West Plains
· Sept. 18, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Cape Girardeau Nature Center, 2289 County Park Drive.
· Sept. 23, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Runge Nature Center, HWY 179, Jefferson City
· Sept. 30, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., Missouri Western University Kemper Recital Hall in Leah Spratt Hall, 4525 Downs Drive, St. Joseph
· Oct. 1, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Burr Oak Woods Nature Center, 1401 NW Park Road, Blue Springs
· Oct. 9, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Springfield Nature Center, 4601 S Nature Center Way
As I attend these meetings it becomes more apparent how little the public knows about what the current regulations are and how much we have worked extensively with the Department of Agriculture in the last 10 years to minimize risk and ensure the health of our herds.
The Conservation Departments main strategy seems to be to hide that fact and convince the public that we are a threat.
If you are a deer farmer or just a deer hunter who is interested in whats right and tired of watching the government trample over all our rights you should come to one of these meetings and give your opinion.
Here is the remaining schedule. We also have a CWD legislative committee meeting next Monday on the 10th at the Capital at 1:00 pm.
. Sept. 5, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Powder Valley Nature Center, 11715 Cragwold Road, Kirkwood
· Sept. 16, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., West Plains Civic Center, 110 St. Louis St., West Plains
· Sept. 18, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Cape Girardeau Nature Center, 2289 County Park Drive.
· Sept. 23, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Runge Nature Center, HWY 179, Jefferson City
· Sept. 30, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., Missouri Western University Kemper Recital Hall in Leah Spratt Hall, 4525 Downs Drive, St. Joseph
· Oct. 1, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Burr Oak Woods Nature Center, 1401 NW Park Road, Blue Springs
· Oct. 9, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Springfield Nature Center, 4601 S Nature Center Way
Sam,
I see that everyone I come across knows very little about what we have for regulations and can't beleive what we go through to be able to raise deer. After talking with them and educating them they see the stress and abuse we put on our animals and us they sympathize with us. I would like to get our imformation out more to the general public, there has to be some way to get good publicity out on our part. I talk to as many people as I can and have put things in papers but is there a better way?
I see that everyone I come across knows very little about what we have for regulations and can't beleive what we go through to be able to raise deer. After talking with them and educating them they see the stress and abuse we put on our animals and us they sympathize with us. I would like to get our imformation out more to the general public, there has to be some way to get good publicity out on our part. I talk to as many people as I can and have put things in papers but is there a better way?
SJames said:The next meeting is in Kirkwood not Kirksville
As I attend these meetings it becomes more apparent how little the public knows about what the current regulations are and how much we have worked extensively with the Department of Agriculture in the last 10 years to minimize risk and ensure the health of our herds.
The Conservation Departments main strategy seems to be to hide that fact and convince the public that we are a threat.
If you are a deer farmer or just a deer hunter who is interested in whats right and tired of watching the government trample over all our rights you should come to one of these meetings and give your opinion.
Here is the remaining schedule. We also have a CWD legislative committee meeting next Monday on the 10th at the Capital at 1:00 pm.
. Sept. 5, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Powder Valley Nature Center, 11715 Cragwold Road, Kirkwood
· Sept. 16, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., West Plains Civic Center, 110 St. Louis St., West Plains
· Sept. 18, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Cape Girardeau Nature Center, 2289 County Park Drive.
· Sept. 23, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Runge Nature Center, HWY 179, Jefferson City
· Sept. 30, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., Missouri Western University Kemper Recital Hall in Leah Spratt Hall, 4525 Downs Drive, St. Joseph
· Oct. 1, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Burr Oak Woods Nature Center, 1401 NW Park Road, Blue Springs
· Oct. 9, 6:30 – 8:30 p.m., MDC Springfield Nature Center, 4601 S Nature Center Way
OOPS, My Bad, I changed it from Kirksville to Kirkwood....Thanks for fixing that Sam...
Found this article that a nature writer wrote in our local newspaper.
This won't help the DNR's position.
This won't help the DNR's position.
