E.H.D.???

I think its to the point on some farms that they hope(Sounds Crazy) That their deer get ehd and survive. I sure dont know much about it but if they made it through the madness and survived then they will pass that on to offspring.

Four Seasons Whitetails said:

I think its to the point on some farms that they hope(Sounds Crazy) That their deer get ehd and survive. I sure dont know much about it but if they made it through the madness and survived then they will pass that on to offspring.

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I dont agree with that all. I do not want my deer to get EHD and I sure don,t want there offspring to get it. I don't honestly think they pass on EHD either.

I am not a scientist by no means. Just my opinion. Dont take it the wrong way

Deer can get a sub clinical dose which may not kill them the first time.It does not stop them contracting it again & its worse the next time (presents fully clinical), not better.

If a deer survives it can then pass the virus on to others.



The point needs to be made,if your deer have contracted any of the hemorragic viruses its because there is a carrier or reservior animal within a relatively short distance(how far do midges travel ?). Removing the sources of infection should be as, if not more important than killing the vectors & treating the symptoms.



Sharkey

sharkey said:

Deer can get a sub clinical dose which may not kill them the first time.It does not stop them contracting it again & its worse the next time , not better.

If a deer survives it can then pass the virus on to others.



The point needs to be made,if your deer have contracted any of the hemorragic viruses its because there is a carrier or reservior animal within a relatively short distance. Removing the sources of infection should be as, if not more important than killing the vectors & treating the symptoms.



Sharkey

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Where did you find this info at? Just curious.

Yeah Sharkey, where is this info coming from......you have more knowledge of this EHD than we do over here that is for sure.........they refuse to address the EHD disease as a problem.........they would rather keep focusing on CWD more than anything else.....

ddwhitetails said:

Yeah Sharkey, where is this info coming from......you have more knowledge of this EHD than we do over here that is for sure.........they refuse to address the EHD disease as a problem.........they would rather keep focusing on CWD more than anything else.....

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Thanks, I agree.

chris patton said:

I dont agree with that all. I do not want my deer to get EHD and I sure don,t want there offspring to get it. I don't honestly think they pass on EHD either.

I am not a scientist by no means. Just my opinion. Dont take it the wrong way

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Nope nothin taken here. My question is how is it that when guys down south sell deer they say they are ehd resistant? If its brought in by a bug can an infected deer really give it to a pen mate? I thought it was bug bites deer and deer either lives or dies!

chris patton said:

Where did you find this info at? Just curious.

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I would have thought managing hemorragic viruses would have been better understood by more deer farmers given that we have a few to contend with.You've had EHD in your deer since the mid 90's & it becomming worse each year I believe.



I don't get hit by EHD but MCF which is simmilar except it is much worse.

Its also carried by sheep which don't go clinical & as "Australia rides on the sheeps back", its not spoken of, even though its a notifiable disease,so I need to be aware , & all over this stuff.We do have EHD in some herds of deer here in the tropics but they are chital & rusa & we haven't seen a clinical or sub clinical case yet.(but they get smashed by MCF)



Try searching the interweb under Epizootic hemorragic disease,it might also be worth a look at bluetounge,malignant catharrl fever & hemorragic viruses.

A library is a good scource of info,as would be a good vet.



Cheers Sharkey

Sharkey,

So if what you are saying is correct....or if I am understanding you correctly....once an animal has the EHD Disease it is best to eliminate it because it will be a carrier forever and therefore be a threat to the rest of your deer should a midge bite it and then go bite another one of your deer...is this correct? Here is where I am having a problem with that theory and this is my opinion only ....not trying to say anyone is right or wrong here....just trying to make some points.....if it was the case that once an animal has the EHD it always has the EHD.......I live in the Northern part of the States and once in a while we may see some cases of EHD here and then it may be a few years or more before we see any cases again......now down in the Southern States they deal with it every year.......so I guess what I am saying is if it were the case that once a deer contrast the EHD it always is a carrier ...I would think we would be seeing it here every year just as they do in the Southern states....but that is not the case......thank God....

ddwhitetails said:

Sharkey,

So if what you are saying is correct....or if I am understanding you correctly....once an animal has the EHD Disease it is best to eliminate it because it will be a carrier forever and therefore be a threat to the rest of your deer should a midge bite it and then go bite another one of your deer...is this correct? Here is where I am having a problem with that theory and this is my opinion only ....not trying to say anyone is right or wrong here....just trying to make some points.....if it was the case that once an animal has the EHD it always has the EHD.......I live in the Northern part of the States and once in a while we may see some cases of EHD here and then it may be a few years or more before we see any cases again......now down in the Southern States they deal with it every year.......so I guess what I am saying is if it were the case that once a deer contrast the EHD it always is a carrier ...I would think we would be seeing it here every year just as they do in the Southern states....but that is not the case......thank God....

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Good questions, and I agree again. But I still dont have the answer I am looking for where is the back up info coming from. And do yall have a cure for EHD over there??

You can search the web over and over til you get tired of looking. Nobody can give you a cure for EHD if they could we would not be having this post. How do yall deal with MCF or EHD in austraila? Do yall have a cure? Best I can see is it hits the weakest deer and the strong survive. But Larry's product has helped my deer to be stronger and healthy.

What I am saying is for EHD to spread, or for your deer to contract it a midge or blood sucking insect "must" feed upon an infected animal first.That insect then feeds on another which then also contracts the disease.There must be a carrier/reservior animal within the insects flight distance of your animals for them to contract the disease.



I cant answer the question about if or how long a deer will be a reservior for EHD because in my own experience no deer survive MCF & are dead end hosts.Personally I would be cautious about keeping an animal which survived a bout with this disease.Some animals could alsoo be carriers & never present clinical signs.Remember this is a virus not a bug or bacteria.



I manage for MCF by keeping my tropical species a couple of klm's inside my boundary & away from maggot taxi's.Understanding the different species of insects & their prefered food animal can help with management in some instances too.



Keeping my animals away from potential carriers (insects flight range) is my main way of managing for hemorragic viruses.I dont purchase deer which have recently shared range with sheep .In short good biosecurity in many different aspects.



Cheers Sharkey

You have some very interesting info to add to what we need. But you will have explain yourself in REDNECK terms for us to understand. Thanks for your input. We will Take all we can get!!

No worries mate.

I'm also a redneck ,& I work with my hands too.lol



There is no cure.

Only prevention.

Misting makes sense for small farms but good biosecurity ,understanding this disease & stopping the carriers before the insects bite them would be best.



Cheers Sharkey

I have found that good herdmanship will solve a lot of your problems with deer. If you raising deer or own your own business. If you dont take care of things, no body else will either.

Thanks for saying there is not a cure only a prevention. Hopefully one day we can find a cure. But I think it's Gods way of handling life. Just to be honest. Whether we like it or not he is te master!!,

So if a deer gets ehd, Survives to live another day and is now a host how could another deer contact it unless that deer bites another deer? I dont know if its like cwd and hangs around in the animal and then saliva contact passes it in the feed trough or something. If it takes a bug to bite a deer to get it...ie Blood. It might take a deer to draw blood on another to pass it, if that was the case then you would want deer in your herd thgat had it and survived and are now resistant. Did anything i just wrote make sence. lol...Im not sure now that i wrote it.

sharkey said:

What I am saying is for EHD to spread, or for your deer to contract it a midge or blood sucking insect "must" feed upon an infected animal first.That insect then feeds on another which then also contracts the disease.There must be a carrier/reservior animal within the insects flight distance of your animals for them to contract the disease.



I cant answer the question about if or how long a deer will be a reservior for EHD because in my own experience no deer survive MCF & are dead end hosts.Personally I would be cautious about keeping an animal which survived a bout with this disease.Some animals could alsoo be carriers & never present clinical signs.Remember this is a virus not a bug or bacteria.



I manage for MCF by keeping my tropical species a couple of klm's inside my boundary & away from maggot taxi's.Understanding the different species of insects & their prefered food animal can help with management in some instances too.



Keeping my animals away from potential carriers (insects flight range) is my main way of managing for hemorragic viruses.I dont purchase deer which have recently shared range with sheep .In short good biosecurity in many different aspects.



Cheers Sharkey

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To answer one of your questions: I bet many of the guys here can't do anything about some of the potential vectors. There are cattle around us (within a short distance) that we could do nothing about whether we want to or not. Many of us have relatively small farms in farm country where a variety of types of livestock are all within a short distance from each other.



A question: couldn't there be something to the concept of genetic/acquired resistance to the symptoms which are ultimately the killer-and are you saying that you don't believe there is anything to that? I don't want to find out if our deer are resistant, but the fact that it is a virus does raise the at least the possibility of transferred resistance from mother to offspring through colostrum, doesn't it? (I'm not as sure how genetic resistance would manifest itself.)



In our situation, we have a stream that runs through two of our pens. When it gets dry in the summer, and the stream starts to dry up and pool up, I am one nervous guy (and I'm not even a worry-wart by nature!). I personally have no interest in fogging our pens, and I'm not sure how well we could do it relative to our set-up. Pumping that much permethrin (or other) into the air/water at those intervals makes me nervous (and I spray chemicals regularly for my work). A little bit of that stuff goes a long way, and if it's very concentrated it's not even safe to get on your skin.



I really appreciate your approach to these types of issues: very analytical and from a good animal husbandry and business perspective.

G'day Jeff23.

You dont need to worry about the stream pooling up if there are no carrier/reservior animals in your area.The midges are just the vector between infected & non infected animals.Are the midges around these pools likely to travel off your farm to feed on infected animals & then return to your deer? Or might you have a carrier your not aware of ? Are the midges which feed on cattle next door the same species which prefers to feed on deer? Always remember these insects must feed on a carrier before they can pass on EHD to another animal.The distances are not great.



"Genetic resistence" is starting to go down the road of evolutionary principle , viruses can also follow this principle & I feel they might win that race.What would be left the whitetail or the virus when its all over? The virus dosen't need whitetail, as it appears its the dead end host, as most die, so it's not parasitic, in that it wants its host to live any longer than to spread the virus to the next.



I jumped in on this EHD topic because,there seems to be a bit of confusion around these hemorragic viruses.My concern was spruked when folks seemed happy to keep potential carriers within their herds thinking this was wise.It could well be, but I wouldn't be doing it myself,I think they are too high a risk. I prefer to work on absolutes such as removing carriers (any infected animals),then maybe controling the vectors ,with no attempt other than a bullet to treat the infected ,rather than thinking my deer will develop resistence. As I have said I do not believe there is a cure for EHD. As for healthy animals surviving a sub clinical dose & being kept with the herd ,who's to say they are not the way this disease winters to infect others next summer.It has to winter in an animal.



I have found hemorragic disease (MCF in my case) to be managable when you focus on the source/carriers, understand the vectors or route of infection (insects) & identify & deal with any animals presenting clinical.



Four Seasons, the only way EHD is transfered is by insects feeding on blood on an infected animal & then passing it on to the next it feeds on.



Its very different too & a great deal less of a threat than CWD on so many levels.



Cheers Sharkey

In short, and im no expert on the scientific terminology...........................

#1) if the animal is fighting the fever and immune systems in overdrive he is contagious as he can be/reservoir for ehd. , agree?

#2) if an animal is completely over the sickness , say back to 100%, isnt the

disease considered a killed virus that cannot be transferred from itself?

#3) if we killed every deer that ever contracted ehd/bluetongue we would not have a deer population, if im lying im dying!

#4) i hate ehd, however its not ever going away, its part of nature's way of ridding itself of the weak !

#5) i have compiled enough info over the last 12 yrs. To know you cant do anything to completely keep it out.

#6) our southern animals are stronger than northern

#7) if you think you can raise animals below canada and never see it your all fools,sooner or later it will strike like a thief in the night!

#8) vaccines,serums,spraying,praying, perfectly ok but usually dont help when your getting hammered with the stuff.

#9) i personally know of several millionares that every weapon in their arsenal with mega defensive programs in place, but they still get brought to their knees.

#10) most farms wont admit it, but ehd is real it kills on top end farms all the way down. Having animals that take a lickin and keep on ticking, thats the ones ill buy !

If you dont agree with 1-10 you dont want to accept reality!

Very well said Jason