E.H.D.???

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Its very different too & a great deal less of a threat than CWD on so many levels.



Sharky'

Do you really think CWD is worse than EHD? I dont see that!! How many deer have you seen die from CWD? It takes CWD to long to show its wrath. Most deer are harvested before CWD shows its ugly head. EHD on the other hand does its dirty deep at a much faster pace and farmers watch the deer die. I dont know anyone that has seen a deer die from CWD.
 
La. Bone Collector said:
In short, and im no expert on the scientific terminology...........................

#1) if the animal is fighting the fever and immune systems in overdrive he is contagious as he can be/reservoir for ehd. , agree?

#2) if an animal is completely over the sickness , say back to 100%, isnt the

disease considered a killed virus that cannot be transferred from itself?

#3) if we killed every deer that ever contracted ehd/bluetongue we would not have a deer population, if im lying im dying!

#4) i hate ehd, however its not ever going away, its part of nature's way of ridding itself of the weak !

#5) i have compiled enough info over the last 12 yrs. To know you cant do anything to completely keep it out.

#6) our southern animals are stronger than northern

#7) if you think you can raise animals below canada and never see it your all fools,sooner or later it will strike like a thief in the night!

#8) vaccines,serums,spraying,praying, perfectly ok but usually dont help when your getting hammered with the stuff.

#9) i personally know of several millionares that every weapon in their arsenal with mega defensive programs in place, but they still get brought to their knees.

#10) most farms wont admit it, but ehd is real it kills on top end farms all the way down. Having animals that take a lickin and keep on ticking, thats the ones ill buy !

If you dont agree with 1-10 you dont want to accept reality!
Click to expand...



I am not sure that #2 is an absolute fact, and if it's not, that may be where Sharkey has his biggest point. Viruses are not always as friendly as that to just die and go away.
 
When you get the chicken pocks as a kid its only contagious to someone who has never cotracted it right? Your immune system kicks in but the killed virus lays dorment in the system till something called stress can bring it out later in life refered to as Shingles. Once again its contagious until your system fights it to put it back dormant. What your saying is its like an AIDS patient? Always a hot zone for the disease year round? I preficed my comment by saying I was not a scientist, but I find it hard to believe any animal can hold in its system EHD year round. If that was possible our deer would be fighting year round because we have blood sucking/transferring insects live through our warm winters. I believe our problem resides in our cattle, since they are carriers.
 
La bone collector

How does EHD winter?

If cattle are carriers, isnt it resonable that some deer are too.



To answer the first question,research into hemorragic viruses has already shown that the offspring from surviving animals carry the disease & are contagious.No doubt there will be other ways it winters.



The one absolute in this disease an insect "must" feed on an infected/contagious animal first,before it can pass on the virus.

I would always try to establish the carrier in EHD cases.How far do these little flys travel?



Mike,about CWD, prions are a nightmare science fiction would struggle to improve.They are not a virus or bacterial & not alive ,so they can't be killed.They remain viable outside an animal for a long time (23 years for scrappie in Iceland) & have many more routes of infection than EHD.There is a long incubation period & animals are shedding prions before they present clinical signs.From scrappie, we have seen many varients arise & a species jump including a human varient. Just because it's moving relatively slowly dosen't mean we should be complacent.It's going to get a lot worse, before it gets better.

The deer industry is "not" responsable for this disease, its just one of several vectors.

Villifing the cervid industry in no way helps the abatement action.All the stakeholders need to work together.



Sharkey
 
I wasnt aware EHD kills cattle. If an armadillo carries leprosy but not be affected couldnt cattle be the host/source?
 
La. Bone Collector said:
I wasnt aware EHD kills cattle. If an armadillo carries leprosy but not be affected couldnt cattle be the host/source?
Click to expand...



Where did the "EHD kills cattle" come from?



Yes, cattle could absolutely be the carrier,as could goats ,sheep, deer,antelope & others. Deer present the most clinical signs of this disease.



Sharkey
 
sharkey said:
La bone collector

How does EHD winter?

If cattle are carriers, isnt it resonable that some deer are too.



To answer the first question,research into hemorragic viruses has already shown that the offspring from surviving animals carry the disease & are contagious.No doubt there will be other ways it winters.



The one absolute in this disease an insect "must" feed on an infected/contagious animal first,before it can pass on the virus.

I would always try to establish the carrier in EHD cases.How far do these little flys travel?



Mike,about CWD, prions are a nightmare science fiction would struggle to improve.They are not a virus or bacterial & not alive ,so they can't be killed.They remain viable outside an animal for a long time (23 years for scrappie in Iceland) & have many more routes of infection than EHD.There is a long incubation period & animals are shedding prions before they present clinical signs.From scrappie, we have seen many varients arise & a species jump including a human varient. Just because it's moving relatively slowly dosen't mean we should be complacent.It's going to get a lot worse, before it gets better.

The deer industry is "not" responsable for this disease, its just one of several vectors.

Villifing the cervid industry in no way helps the abatement action.All the stakeholders need to work together.



Sharkey
Click to expand...



Correct i guess but as far as a killer of our pen deer or our wild herd ehd takes out a whitetail in no time flat and cwd takes forever. I also am a firm believer that most deer will be harvested in both herds before cwd takes any of them. Ya just dont hear of dead deer from cwd. Mabey they have it but when they find it the deer was a perfect animal in perfect shape.
 
sharkey said:
La bone collector

How does EHD winter?

If cattle are carriers, isnt it resonable that some deer are too.



To answer the first question,research into hemorragic viruses has already shown that the offspring from surviving animals carry the disease & are contagious.No doubt there will be other ways it winters.



The one absolute in this disease an insect "must" feed on an infected/contagious animal first,before it can pass on the virus.

I would always try to establish the carrier in EHD cases.How far do these little flys travel?



Mike,about CWD, prions are a nightmare science fiction would struggle to improve.They are not a virus or bacterial & not alive ,so they can't be killed.They remain viable outside an animal for a long time (23 years for scrappie in Iceland) & have many more routes of infection than EHD.There is a long incubation period & animals are shedding prions before they present clinical signs.From scrappie, we have seen many varients arise & a species jump including a human varient. Just because it's moving relatively slowly dosen't mean we should be complacent.It's going to get a lot worse, before it gets better.

The deer industry is "not" responsable for this disease, its just one of several vectors.

Villifing the cervid industry in no way helps the abatement action.All the stakeholders need to work together.



Sharkey
Click to expand...



If your info is accurate, what your saying is offspring from animals that have had EHD are contagious. So if I operated a closed herd( did not bring in any new animals) my deer should be able to pass it to each other every time a midge bites one then another. If that were true I would have had EHD every year. Well thats not plausible since there have been many years ive had no EHD.
 
La. Bone Collector said:
When you get the chicken pocks as a kid its only contagious to someone who has never cotracted it right? Your immune system kicks in but the killed virus lays dorment in the system till something called stress can bring it out later in life refered to as Shingles. Once again its contagious until your system fights it to put it back dormant. What your saying is its like an AIDS patient? Always a hot zone for the disease year round? I preficed my comment by saying I was not a scientist, but I find it hard to believe any animal can hold in its system EHD year round. If that was possible our deer would be fighting year round because we have blood sucking/transferring insects live through our warm winters. I believe our problem resides in our cattle, since they are carriers.
Click to expand...



Just to clarify, what I bolded above is not what I am saying IS the case, but rather what I am suggesting COULD be the case, at least in some situations. Viruses are not all created equal, and I don't know enough about hemhorragic viruses to know how many different strains there may be, how they may behave, etc. Also, the can viruses can change enough that what we think we know becomes old news. You have TONS more experience with it than me, but I know enough to know I don't want it!!

Sharkey: Vectors are right across the fencerow from our deer... typical life in Pennsylvania farmland. I would like to learn more about the midge species that are prevalent and cross reference that with our risk factors. I have heard of it previously being present approximately 60 miles south- that is way too close for comfort.
 
La. Bone Collector said:
If your info is accurate, what your saying is offspring from animals that have had EHD are contagious. So if I operated a closed herd( did not bring in any new animals) my deer should be able to pass it to each other every time a midge bites one then another. If that were true I would have had EHD every year. Well thats not plausible since there have been many years ive had no EHD.
Click to expand...



It's the "Institute for animal health" (UK) that for the last few years has been suggesting that the hemorragic viruses winter in the foetus.This would suggest it may be wise to pay particular attention to new born.



If you haven't had EHD thats great.Is it because you haven't any carriers or you havent any vectors, or both? Remember you need both carriers & vectors to spread EHD.



If midges bite a carrier, then feed on another they will spread the virus.



La Bone Collector.What are your thoughts on how this virus spreads & how it survives winter, as midges & insects are killed by the cold?



Sharkey
 
Our winters are usually mild as compared to northern states. I believe that any blood sucking insect that needs to feed to fertilize eggs for continuance is suspect. I believe it takes more than one bite to infect. Something to think about is, if a deer contracts EHD one year to the next and say blood is drawn each time. The report shows positive for Type ll each time, that animal could not be contagious or be the host. So once the animal fights off the virus its killed within the system. Unless the virus wis muttated ever so slightly ,why would it be positive for a type match? The host/suspect animal of a different species (cattle,horses) could only be ruled out by blood testing . Thats not going to happen. I believe the only defenses reside in a healthy animal that gets exposed ,resists, and passes on its antibodies to the next generation. I think if you have an animal that say gets EHD three years straight, its immune system is poor or its dealing with a slightly mutated type. What ive tried this year is to keep a level of bug killer flowing in their veins. Until they figure this out, we keep breeding super deer in the south.
 
La. Bone Collector said:
I believe the only defenses reside in a healthy animal that gets exposed ,resists, and passes on its antibodies to the next generation.
Click to expand...

Do you think this happens genetically, with mother to offspring transmission or some other way?

The only way I can imagine this happening genetically is through some "toughness" gene that they possess that enables them to fight off viruses. And if so, then you would need them to be exposed so you would know whether or not they are killed by the virus.

Just trying to think all this through...



La. Bone Collector said:
What ive tried this year is to keep a level of bug killer flowing in their veins.
Click to expand...

How do you do this?
 
I would have to say antibodies come through the milk. Thats why I dont bottle raise my fawns. I spend an enormous amount of time in my pens. My deer are very workable. The toughness gene huh. I believe your outcross bred animals do better. The levels of active wormer in the animal on a regular basis. Varied of course.
 
I assumed you meant the antibodies contained in milk- in particular the colostrum. I was just wondering if you were saying that it was more than that in terms of genetics, since you said about breeding super deer in the south. Others have talked about "resistant" deer, and I wonder how this would manifest itself. So you're just talking outcrossing, as opposed to linebreeding strains believed to be "resistant", or that contain some gene that enables them to fight the virus on their own?

So you feel the wormer level in the system is keeping midges away enough to reduce your threat?

I am trying to determine which methods of control/prevention are most effective and why. I am familiar with a number of issues with deer; EHD etc I am not too familiar with yet.
 
Rodney, im sorry to hear that about your friends loss. How far away is his farm from yours? How long you been using Bulletproof?
 
Does anyone have any other combinations to give to deer with EHD symtoms? I'm loosing deer left and right and have had them vaccinated but its still getting some of them.
 
Just about all of the deer will have respiratory issues,and fever. Treat these secondary with A180,Zactran,Draxxin,Excede, Baytril for respiratory and banamine,dexamethasone for inflamation and hemorraging.I heard about a new drug that will soon be available. It targets specifically the lungs. Animals with lingering virus or bacterial problems. It has a 28 day residual ,twice normal expensive drugs. Im not sure the name or price yet but you can bet it will be a deer farm essential.
 

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